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So my opinion that the ruleset, thematic elements, and setting, are much more main and centre in the series... Is somehow less valid than your opinion that everything is about this one set of combat mechanics and literally nothing else matters?

(Because, this is not a strawman from me, you have literally said that BG3 is nothing like the previous one despite sharing all of those elements and only really having that one difference that we know about so far, so not only are you now contradicting yourself by saying the game is a sum of all it's parts, you're actively saying the opposite at every opportunity.)

And, that argument is not relevant to any of the points WE'RE making in THIS thread, so bringing it up and debunking it is still a strawman in the context of THIS argument.


Look, you're being an obsessive, entitled prat. Chill out or piss off. The devs don't have to make "Literally just baldur's gate 2 again but with modern gen graphics", they were given creative freedom from WotC and at every turn as far as I can tell they're taking the responsibility of that role seriously.



So what if their combat is a little less evocative of BG if they're living up to the series' other core concepts even more vividly, particularly when it comes to evoking D&D in video game form; (If you'd actually watched the entire video you'd see that even the introductory trap in the first dungeon is much more evocative of something you'd see in D&D than almost anything that'd come before. But then looking at your comments thus far if you'd watched the whole video you'd instead be whining about how the pregen vampire character is gay and that magically ruins the game somehow. (And yes perhaps that's an ad-hom but you're fucking exhausting to talk to so my patience is spent at this point.))

"Resemblance of the previous games" is not a linear measure based solely on whether the combat system is the same. It's a complex array of factors and they made the decision to emphasise some at the expense of others because they felt it'd make for a better final product, and until you have actually played the finished game you have no right to judge that.

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Originally Posted by Elvenoob
Look, you're being an obsessive, entitled prat. Chill out or piss off.

Oi, pack it in. Be polite or don't post at all. That goes for everyone.

People have opinions and they're seldom changed by a forum flame-war. Nobody is obliged to read or respond to anything they don't want to but they are obliged to be civil. Thanks for your attention.


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They haven't been polite to me this entire time, a girl only has so much patience.

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Point taken, which is why my comment was aimed at everyone. Don't take it personally, but move on if someone's being snarky. Life's too short.


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Fair enough, thanks for the defuse laugh

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Originally Posted by Elvenoob
So my opinion that the ruleset, thematic elements, and setting, are much more main and centre in the series... Is somehow less valid than your opinion that everything is about this one set of combat mechanics and literally nothing else matters?

You asserted something as fact when it was arbitrary (and likely disingenuously made) opinion. Don't try to twist this into something about not respecting other opinions. It's a case of you falsely presenting your supposed opinion as if fact.

Quote
(Because, this is not a strawman from me, you have literally said that BG3 is nothing like the previous one despite sharing all of those elements and only really having that one difference that we know about so far, so not only are you now contradicting yourself by saying the game is a sum of all it's parts, you're actively saying the opposite at every opportunity.)

I have not listed all the differences and similarities between the original Baldur's Gate series and this Larian "BG3" game. I have not claimed that you made a strawman argument about this. And I have not contradicted myself by saying that a game is the sum of all its parts and also that RTwP combat is a key characteristic of the Baldur's Gate series - both statements are simultaneously true. Either you're being incredibly dishonest with me and everybody reading this, or else you sorely need to work on your English comprehension and possible logic skills.

Quote
And, that argument is not relevant to any of the points WE'RE making in THIS thread, so bringing it up and debunking it is still a strawman in the context of THIS argument.

With that comment, just like with the one where you spammed something because you weren't immediately getting the attention you craved, "you're being an obsessive, entitled prat. Chill out or piss off." I am not obligated to exclusively discuss whatever singular idea you are currently trying to discuss in this thread, and my comment about the respective sales of DA:O and D:OS2 and the speculative popularity of RTwP and TB systems based on them was not made towards you. So, why are you fussing about a comment that didn't involve you? You are trying to be a post nazi again.

Quote
Look, you're being an obsessive, entitled prat. Chill out or piss off. The devs don't have to make "Literally just baldur's gate 2 again but with modern gen graphics", they were given creative freedom from WotC and at every turn as far as I can tell they're taking the responsibility of that role seriously.

Wrong again - you are outright lying now. Before I ever made any comment towards you, you were rude towards me and flame-baited. Here's a reminder for you:

Originally Posted by Elvenoob
Quote
What's important is doing a good job with what a game is. And a Baldur's Gate series game should be an RTwP game, as well as a game that respects and honours the other characteristics of the Baldur's Gate experience. Larian should be doing that and shouldn't be making D:OS 2.5 with the Baldur's Gate license.


That... Doesn't make sense when you think about it for more than five seconds.

...

So, to turn your point from the middle of your wall of text back on you, there is no inherent advantage to Turn Based or Real Time with Pause, what matters is how well you use them.

You have behaved like an extremely immature infant from the start. And from there, you started spamming the same post in the forums because you couldn't tolerate that I was taking the time to respond to somebody else and not making you (who didn't post before the other person) my priority. Here's a reminder for you about that, as well:

Originally Posted by Elvenoob
Reposting this because you seem keen to avoid my arguents, perhaps because you can't actually respond to them.

I had not treated you in any bad way before you did those things.

So, you are hereby caught outright lying about other people to try to cover your own butt. And in doing so, you prove yourself to be a hypocrite. I do not say those things as pejorative, but as the literal truth. As I said, you have behaved immaturely from the start. And you are continuing to do so in a most pathetic manner.

You are projecting after having made a series of baseless and poor arguments that have been discredited. If you don't like having your arguments rebuked, then make better ones. Making poor ones and then crying foul when they are discredited only makes you appear weaker.

Shall we review your ever-increasing long list of failed arguments?

Originally Posted by vometia
Point taken, which is why my comment was aimed at everyone. Don't take it personally, but move on if someone's being snarky. Life's too short.

Elvenoob's comment to you is an outright lie, an attempt to cover their trolling and chaos-stirring in this thread. They're manipulatively trying to play you, just as they have repeatedly tried to pull one over on me in the discussion.

Last edited by Delicieuxz; 29/02/20 06:16 AM.
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None of that is factually speaking what happened (And she can check the forum history for herself so just claiming that I was lying about you being abrasive and rude... doesn't work) and a moderator has asked for this argument to end so I have nothing more to say on the matter.

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Literally, everything I said factually happened. So, you are lying and trying to manipulate people once again. And I didn't claim you lied about me in your original posts, only that you were rude and immature from the start - and you were. That said, however, you possibly lied when you asserted that my post was a "wall of text" when it wasn't. That, or you simply were unaware of what the phrase meant.

But the lying of yours that I commented on was when you lied about me and to vometia by claiming that I hadn't been polite to you and that it was your patience that had been tried rather than mine by yourself. You flame-baited me before I ever made a comment to you.

And yes, everybody can check the forum history for themselves. Here it is. In fact, here are screenshots to ensure you don't try to edit your post history.

This is your first comment to me, before I had made any comment towards you:

http://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=659672#Post659672
[Linked Image]

And here is your follow-up comment to me, which you spammed when I didn't immediately respond to you but continued a discussion with another poster (who posted before you did):

http://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=659685#Post659685
[Linked Image]

If you're going to lie, as you seem to be wanting to do, leave me out of it. I don't care for your trolling and your drama. So don't drag me into the escapades created by your rotten behaviour.

Last edited by Delicieuxz; 29/02/20 06:33 AM.
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Originally Posted by Delicieuxz
If you're going to lie, as you seem to be wanting to do, leave me out of it. I don't care for your trolling and your drama. So don't drag me into the escapades created by your rotten behaviour.

Stop. I won't ask again.


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Originally Posted by vometia
Point taken, which is why my comment was aimed at everyone. Don't take it personally, but move on if someone's being snarky. Life's too short.


Right something like don't stoop to their level... move on, no big we're talking game design opinions. But the point of my reply, life for me is taking forever!

Last edited by Horrorscope; 29/02/20 07:03 AM.
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Originally Posted by Horrorscope
But the point of my reply, life for me is taking forever!

Ugh, that's what I thought too. I'm sure I was in my mid 20s last week, now I'm a fiftysomething.


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Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Horrorscope
But the point of my reply, life for me is taking forever!

Ugh, that's what I thought too. I'm sure I was in my mid 20s last week, now I'm a fiftysomething.


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Can one to TB gameplay add rounds system like in Baldur's Gate 2? Enemy pawns will attack simultaneously main character after his TURN / ROUND has ended.
Gamplay could be more faster and dynamic.

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Hehe...when i made this topic i never thought it would get much attention, mostly thought i'd be shut down for criticizing Larian's new game, but most dicussions on my topic and others (even though some people might have thrown light jabs at one another) seem to have been very constructive and i do hope Larian take into consideration what all fans would want from this game and it's legacy

But from what i gathered , there's are more people that want RTwP and their arguments seem to be objectively stronger and make more sense (even though you will say my opinion is actually subjective since i do belong to the group that wishes RTwP)

As i may have said in another post, people who desire and are for TB , are 95% or more that never played baldur's gate , almost all of them divinity fans or larian fans in general , the only solid argument for TB is that it's perfectly suited for 5e ruleset of DnD , which i do agree , but that's pretty much it.

Personally , the only games suited for Turn based is chess or similar games , or Heroes of Might and Magic and the Disciples game series(which are strategy games , not RPGs) ..as i may have mentioned , i will still buy and play this game, for its story and legacy , but the immersion is pretty much over for me during combat when chess starts , i will enjoy any other part of the game (story , dialogue , envoirments , graphics etc etc etc) since Larian have been good at these since their first game.

I don't think that there are any other existent turn based RPGs besides Original Sin games that people actually bought and played ,and people don't do that because it's turn based , that's the weakest argument of the TB camp, they do it because all the other characteristics of the game , make combat tolerable , of which i 100% agree.. that's why i'm only now currently playing and finishing Original sin 2 , because after the first one , i thought i will never want to be that bored in my life during combat and i overlooked it , but i kept hearing from almost everyone that it makes up for it with all the other characteristics besides combat i made above , and so here i am playing this game 3 years after release, and only did so because i ran out of things to play , and i play exclusively medieval fantasy type games from different genres, i don't think PC games that have magic and dragons and knights and all that good stuff that i haven't played or finished (except Torrment tides of Numenera and please do guess why that is laugh )

It's hard for me to cope with Turn based in an RPG game , i'm also quite the Soulsborne/Sekiro expert , imagine going from the hardest and most reaction based fast paced games to basically chess , my head hurts:P

I know i've trailed off the discussion and i do apologize , to enclose , i do hope the devs find the time ,resources and will to at least make a supported addon or mod for real time combat , hell..i'd even pay 50% extra of the game's value on top of the game's price just for that ,because i'd make that money back in 2-3 fights in this game while waiting for the animations to finish :P , everyone gets what they want , devs get more money and i could use that time exploring their game and/or replaying it , instead of wasting my time watching the monitor and pausing for 1-2-3 minutes for the enemy pack to finish their turn.

Last edited by Robymyz; 29/02/20 02:10 PM.
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I don´t know, games like PoE2 made the two modes, and you can play Pathfinder kingmaker in TB or RTWP with a mod. Owlcat studio already announced that they will allow two gameplay modes: RTWP and TB in the upcoming PF: WotR...

But to be fair those games do not have online multiplayer mode, so it is unlikely that BG3 would have that option from the start.

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Looks good so far.

There's one thing I'd like to see though: enemies having a sense of self-perservation.
SOME enemies might give up when the health is too low and too many of their companions die. They would drop to both knees in surrender and drop their inventory. Or run away after dropping their weapons.
But "trying to run" seems pointless if they can never leave the map, thus you WILL end up having to kill them.

Just something for the players that do not want to murder every living thing. You can also make it that spells like fear increase the chance that an enemy might simply surrender.

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Originally Posted by _Vic_
I don´t know, games like PoE2 made the two modes, and you can play Pathfinder kingmaker in TB or RTWP with a mod. Owlcat studio already announced that they will allow two gameplay modes: RTWP and TB in the upcoming PF: WotR...

But to be fair those games do not have online multiplayer mode, so it is unlikely that BG3 would have that option from the start.

And BG3 will? When was that announced?

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Thing that I like: The double rank quick-bar at the bottom. Hopefully that'll be enough room for everything and hopefully it scales to account for my ultra-wide monitor to give me even more actions available.

Thing that I'm really not sure about: The past tense dialogue just seems weird. Larian managed full voice for D:OS2, not sure why they'd change it for this.

I am OK, even happy about the turn-based combat, RTwP hasn't been done well since DA:Origins and TB in D:OS2 was great. And I am one of the boomers who have been reviled by at least one person on these boards. I have the original BG2 box set staring at me from my shelves as I type, even though I have no CD/DVD drive to use its contents with. But I do feel that CRPG's have moved on and I'm happy with that.

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Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by _Vic_
I don´t know, games like PoE2 made the two modes, and you can play Pathfinder kingmaker in TB or RTWP with a mod. Owlcat studio already announced that they will allow two gameplay modes: RTWP and TB in the upcoming PF: WotR...

But to be fair those games do not have online multiplayer mode, so it is unlikely that BG3 would have that option from the start.

And BG3 will? When was that announced?

Yes, BG3 will have a multiplayer mode, 4 player coop, if that is what you are asking. They confirmed that in several interviews:

https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3-co-op

https://www.dualshockers.com/baldurs-gate-3-interview-2020/

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-02-27-baldurs-gate-3-interview

https://screenrant.com/baldurs-gate-3-adam-smith-interview/

And the game will also be available in Stadia so...

Last edited by _Vic_; 29/02/20 04:24 PM.
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Originally Posted by Robymyz
@ Kanisatha I actually just bought Pathfinder Imperial edition a few days ago but only played a little due to work ( but weekend is here so i'm gonna not sleep til monday ) i omitted to buy at release since i kept hearing about bugs and inconsistencies , all of which have been fixed from what i gathered from later reviews , and yes , i actually giggled a little because i literally found out TODAY that they are making a new one, this game and the first Pillar of Eternity (not the 2nd one) seem to me the closest possible relatives to BG and IwD , and yes i've literally played and finished all other possible existent CRPGs smile ...i won't boycott this game , i will buy it, even though it's not Baldur's gate per say , it's still a game from a company i've been playing their games since they started , and i always had good experiences (except Dragon Commander , for real i dont know why they thought anyone would like that game maybe it was just an experiment , who knows :P)

That's fine. Everyone gets to make their choice. For me, I won't touch this game, and since it is personal to me I will also do all I can to try and persuade other people to not buy it. It is personal to me because they chose to call the game "Baldur's Gate 3." If it was just another new game using D&D rules that would be different. I'd still hate the game and wouldn't play it, but it wouldn't be personal. But a game carrying the BG name but being 100% NOT a BG game is personal to me.

There are plenty of other very good RPGs out there, including even a couple of TB games, that are all way more superior to this trash. So I am very much looking forward to P:WotR, Black Geyser, The Dark Eye, Realms Beyond, Solasta, and that's not even including games like Dragon Age 4 and the next Witcher game, which are also of course true RPGs (with RTwP thankfully). BG3 is garbage. My time is very valuable. I won't be wasting any of my time on garbage.

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