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This. Sometimes I want meatloaf and sometimes I want a steak. When you promise me a steak and you give me meatloaf then even if it's great meatloaf I'm going to be mad.

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First of all, i'm not native english so excuse my weird english but better call it Divnity Sin 3, I feel like Fallout 3 and Bethesda scam at this point. This is not at all what i expected, oversimplified and stupid rules you made.

Where are the skills point by class and by level gain, than modified by stats, that give an actual number that you compare to a dd check that you try to reach with the help of dice? Check would become trivial if you boosted the skills and impossible if you didnt. In your game, i never took persuasion but my character is able to roll any persuasion check succesfully even with low charisma, that non sense. And you dont get individual xp from accomplish those skill check. Xp is given to the party equaly even if your companion stand at camp, resulting in all level up at the same time for action they didnt make. All those character become clone with one boosted stat, you cant build 2 same classe differently, the class determine all, you lost a big part of character customisation. With a tool like nwn2db.com/builder , you can play with the number during dozen of hours before find the right balance of a multiclass char.


The list go on and is too long to detail, your argument that Dnd rules are not made for videogames is falacious, DnD rules arent adapted, they are heavily modified to look like divinity, probably cause you choose to use your divnity engine in stead of developp a new one that feat DnD rules like infinty engine was made for baldur's gate, so you just made an excuse and make false promise. The result is even worse that ds2 in my opinion, bastard child with non-sense like a warrior with 0 in acrobatic ,8 dex but able to jump 3 meter away with a full plate lol..., why the hell i need 100 po to write a spell when i should earn xp for succesfully copy it in my book, 100 po for who ?? i found this scroll why i have to pay a taxes from nowhere lol...! How an halfling is able to push away a creature 10 times heavier than him lol, and the lol list is endless....

there is a ton of example like that, pure non-sense that make your game broken, i want gather my party before continuing , not teleporting to camp that made the sleep system completely useless and not challenging at all.

Any post baldur's gate game like neverwinter night etc....feel like an DnD game, even Pathfinder who isnt a DnD game feel more like DnD...this is not at all a DnD game,i feel betrayed and i will go refund at this point, even if i did like divinity sin a lot. But i want to play Baldur's gate 3, not Divinity Sin 3 and you lied about it.

If i want to play fallout 3, the closest experience will be Atom RPG those days, and if i want to play Bg3, the closest experience will be Pathfinder, not your divnity sin 3.

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Originally Posted by biboul
First of all, i'm not native english so excuse my weird english but better call it Divnity Sin 3, I feel like Fallout 3 and Bethesda scam at this point. This is not at all what i expected, oversimplified and stupid rules you made.

Where are the skills point by class and by level gain, than modified by stats, that give an actual number that you compare to a dd check that you try to reach with the help of dice? Check would become trivial if you boosted the skills and impossible if you didnt. In your game, i never took persuasion but my character is able to roll any persuasion check succesfully even with low charisma, that non sense. And you dont get individual xp from accomplish those skill check. Xp is given to the party equaly even if your companion stand at camp, resulting in all level up at the same time for action they didnt make. All those character become clone with one boosted stat, you cant build 2 same classe differently, the class determine all, you lost a big part of character customisation. With a tool like nwn2db.com/builder , you can play with the number during dozen of hours before find the right balance of a multiclass char.


D&D 5e doesn't work like that. In 5e, you pick skills to be proficient in and those skills add your proficiency bonus plus relevant attribute bonus. This is actually one of the things done "correctly" in BG3. You're thinking of D&D 3.5 (well 3e actually for NWN1), which was very different and hugely complicated by comparison to D&D 5e.

Originally Posted by biboul

The list go on and is too long to detail, your argument that Dnd rules are not made for videogames is falacious, DnD rules arent adapted, they are heavily modified to look like divinity, probably cause you choose to use your divnity engine in stead of developp a new one that feat DnD rules like infinty engine was made for baldur's gate, so you just made an excuse and make false promise. The result is even worse that ds2 in my opinion, bastard child with non-sense like a warrior with 0 in acrobatic ,8 dex but able to jump 3 meter away with a full plate lol..., why the hell i need 100 po to write a spell when i should earn xp for succesfully copy it in my book, 100 po for who ?? i found this scroll why i have to pay a taxes from nowhere lol...! How an halfling is able to push away a creature 10 times heavier than him lol, and the lol list is endless....


Again, in D&D 5e jumping is athletics typically, so jump distance is calculated from that. And you pay money to learn spells, you don't earn XP for it. Technically Im not sure you even got XP for learning spells in 2e, that was a BG thing.


Originally Posted by biboul

there is a ton of example like that, pure non-sense that make your game broken, i want gather my party before continuing , not teleporting to camp that made the sleep system completely useless and not challenging at all.

Any post baldur's gate game like neverwinter night etc....feel like an DnD game, even Pathfinder who isnt a DnD game feel more like DnD...this is not at all a DnD game,i feel betrayed and i will go refund at this point, even if i did like divinity sin a lot. But i want to play Baldur's gate 3, not Divinity Sin 3 and you lied about it.

If i want to play fallout 3, the closest experience will be Atom RPG those days, and if i want to play Bg3, the closest experience will be Pathfinder, not your divnity sin 3.


Pathfinder technically IS a D&D game, pathfinder is often referred to as D&D 3.75, it was made by a bunch of the team that worked on 3.5 and didn't like where D&D 4e was going so moved to paizo and made pathfinder.




There are plenty of valid complaints about the game to be made, but you really do seem to have gone in with very unrealistic expectations, they said from the start it was based on D&D 5e, perhaps you need to take a little time to look into that system and then look at the differences with what them made to that, whilst there are quite a few things that could/should be closer to D&D 5e, the things you listed actually aren't amonth them. Also, they need to follow 5e because that is what Wizards of the Coast now make, so any license to make a game like this would have had to use the ruleset.

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Disagreing doesn't do anything because you are just in DENIAL because you are fanboys, you bring 0 counter arguments because you are being purposefully dishonest and just throwing a "thought terminating cliche" phrase to stop the conversation.

Morons.

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Yawn. A tired old point that has belabored elsewhere.

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Indeed, this game should not be DoS 3 but Baldur's Gate 3.

Currently, they are too many details that remind me DoS 2 (chain/unchain system, Inventory screen, loot UX, right click menu ...).
DoS 2 is a very good game, I admit and I live it ... but it's not a Baldur's Gate.

We're still in early access so I keep to hope to see changes coming smile

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I disagree on the graphic/model part.
But I agree on UX part. The right-click menu is a good example for me, we find exactly the same options in the same order than DoS2

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Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
to be fair, the new improved camera makes a world of difference.

Improved? Oh boy. I'm constantly battling for a good view and rarely succeed. I have not had that much trouble in DOS2 with the camera!

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Long time 5e player here. I am hoping this game comes closer to representing 5e.

Played the EA a bunch, and I have to concur, it does feel a lot like DOS2. I have played DOS2 many hours, and liked it somewhat, but I do not think that the trademark "surface-gameplay" should play a major role in this adaptation of 5e. Alchemists fire is a fine candidate for creating some lasting fire effects, but that fire should stay on individual characters IMO. Don't want every battle to end with a soup of surfaces you have to either wade through or wait to go away. A couple times after a decent battle, a party member would die from stepping in a surface due to pathing. It is no fun when your party member could bravely stand up to a gith deathforce, only to later be vanquished by auto-running through a surface.

Some UI hassles also seems to have bridged from DOS2 into BG3 - namely that your hotbar is automatically filled with all kinds of odds and ends you pick up, which is confusing and tedious to manage. Adding to the hassle is that you do need that hotbar for spells that have reappliable effects (hunters mark for rangers is one example).

As others have said, we are in early access and changes are bound to happen.

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I really do hope that the game will start to feel more like BG3 then DOS3 taking place in Forgotten Realms... The whole thing with surface feels so random that I right now avoid using any thing that might create something burning or a pool of acid. I dont mind if you throw a fire spell after using a grease spell, that is just classical way of burning your enemies but it should not be burning as if you have used that when you are standing on a normal surface.

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d&d should never be anything like linear. it's a game of imagination with a lot to explore, ideally nothing less than the limits your mind and the setting will give you. same goes with the character creation/progression... nvm the ruleset i guess it's video games not pen and paper... don't hate me now, but many will disagree.

It's still early access... ofc there is much to do!

Last edited by Yezam; 08/10/20 01:16 AM.
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Agreed, whole heartedly.

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Couldn't agree with this more. Spamming fire/acid/frost/etc puddles in combat is not what DnD is about, and feels fundamentally different from the tactical team combat that DnD is known for.

And tying jump and disengage together as a bonus action is just poorly considered. It's now drastically better than the tabletop disengage and might as well be hotkeyed since you'll be spamming it nearly every turn if you have a lick of sense.

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Originally Posted by Daniel213
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
to be fair, the new improved camera makes a world of difference.

Improved? Oh boy. I'm constantly battling for a good view and rarely succeed. I have not had that much trouble in DOS2 with the camera!



I meant the conversation one

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Originally Posted by Emrikol
Yawn. A tired old point that has belabored elsewhere.


It's being repeated by so many people, in so many reviews, and in so many forums simply because it's obviously and painfully true after just a few minutes of gameplay, and only gets more noticeable as you go on.

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I disagree:
This is a video game and I do not think that 1:1 translations of pen and paper mechanics would make a good video game. The negative points mentioned in the early posts of this thread are not negative for me. For example I like the surfaces and that they are less dominant than in DOS3. Keeping to pure DnD mechanics would drastically restrict creative freedom and personally I'm indifferent to the game being like any abstract rules set - I only care about the game itself.

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Originally Posted by Meril
I disagree:
This is a video game and I do not think that 1:1 translations of pen and paper mechanics would make a good video game. The negative points mentioned in the early posts of this thread are not negative for me. For example I like the surfaces and that they are less dominant than in DOS3. Keeping to pure DnD mechanics would drastically restrict creative freedom and personally I'm indifferent to the game being like any abstract rules set - I only care about the game itself.


Aside the fact that this is supposed to be a follow up to beloved seriesm which did adhere to it's source material very closely... 5e rules are pretty freeform, so it would be far less restrictive to stick with them than you think.

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i care only about adapting a d&d character in the game, to build him/her as i imagine and it will work out as in d&d... i am not afraid to learn game mechanics... but d&d should be the core game, if OS mechanics get implemented... personally i'd love a gamemaster, who would tell me i detonated 2km² around my person, and set my hair on fire... it's just not like poison explodes fire, it's more like... poison cripples ur body and such...

Last edited by Yezam; 08/10/20 02:17 AM.
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My personal observation is that it certainly feels very same to the other larian games. Especially noticeable when we do a jump- the dotted curved line, the awkward animation that looks like someone winding up for a jump by crouching down and then launching themselves- just yuck.
The game feels like a baldurs gate skin has been applied to an original sin "way of doing things". Its like when the same movie director makes several movies, you can see same elements starting to show through.
I think its a cost cutting and efficiency measure, in that they already have systems in place to control various aspects, and they have reused code as much as possible, which is sound software engineering practice but as an end user that is not what I fundamentally want.
It would be nice to have an alternative intermediate "ui-skin" layer so people can decide for themselves what look and feel of menus and movement should look like, but that could also come in as mods further down the line.

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Originally Posted by TheStoryTeller
My personal observation is that it certainly feels very same to the other larian games. Especially noticeable when we do a jump- the dotted curved line, the awkward animation that looks like someone winding up for a jump by crouching down and then launching themselves- just yuck.


Well, they got that hilarity explained by simply giving all characters "strange mind powers"... which include awkward jumping, apparently. Convenient! wink

Last edited by WarBaby2; 07/10/20 11:25 PM.
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