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I also agree. Acid, fire, electricity needs rework.

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Originally Posted by Meril
I disagree:
This is a video game and I do not think that 1:1 translations of pen and paper mechanics would make a good video game.


I quite literally said that I don't expect nor want a direct 1 to 1 translation of 5e.

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I completely disagree. Just the new cutscene camera angles completely improves the whole dynamic in a positive way. The fact that its "bones" remind you a bit of DOS2 is not only irrelevant, but obvious. Did Dragon Age's blueprint (so to speak) not remind you of Mass Effect, for example? Seriously.

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I also very much disagree with this assessment.


I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought.

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It certainly does, I hope the UI is more unique.


I rolled a d1 on intelligence, so don't judge me.
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Lot's of complaints that this game isn't Divinity Original Sin.

I like the fact that this isn't Divinity Original Sin, in fact I found the system in DOS 1&2 confusing and opaque. I really don't like DOS 1 or 2. I do like the direction this game is going in.

What I don't like is that this game is basically the DOS engine trying to do D&D5 - because a character's turn in DOS is slow. In D&D5 it's designed to be as fast as possible. I think there's some conceptual wrangling that needs to be done to make this game it's own thing instead of DOS in a D&D suit.

But if the community just ends up backtracking this game into DOS then I think that would be disappointing. Let Baldurs Gate 3 be a D&D game.

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Well you wont get confused with this game because its hollow and empty, congrats on the wish commng true.

Last edited by Emulate; 08/10/20 10:57 AM.
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Originally Posted by st33d
But if the community just ends up backtracking this game into DOS then I think that would be disappointing. Let Baldurs Gate 3 be a D&D game.


I doubt WotC would be fine with that... then again, who even knows what their standards are these days?

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Originally Posted by porrage
However I bought this game because it's Baldur's Gate 3, and it's supposed to be based off the 5e D&D system. This doesn't feel like dungeons and dragons at all. It doesn't feel like 5e at all. Why does my Firebolt leave fire on the ground and deal 1d6 damage instead of being a far ranged attack that deals moderate single target damage? Why is Disengage lumped in with jump and takes a bonus action instead of an Action? (there's a reason it takes an Action and not a Bonus Action in the table top). Why on Earth is "dip" a thing? I put my longbow into a fire, it gets set on fire, and then it deals bonus fire damage. Uhhh what? (note: these things wouldn't be out of place in DOS3, but I'm supposed to be playing Baldur's Gate 3)


I think that the change about disengage being a bonus action has been made to make the combat more interesting. It is obvious for a tabletop player that in order to disengage as a bonus action, you have to be a rogue, but it is not obvious to a casual player who might think "hey, why Astarion can jump/disengage as a bonus and my Heavy Armor Warrior cannot?" It's obvious for 5e players and DM's, but not for a random player who could feel like he wasted time by playing a class that cant jump and attack in the same round.

The firebolt leaving the train on surface is a bummer to me as well, like, i hoped so much that this game won't be DoS III, but with all the flammable/oil/acid barrels set in random-ass places, it sure does feel like another DoS game. I'm glad that they're calculating hit chance the movement and so on in accord with 5e rules, but i yet have to see a 5e rulebook that has encounters set in Underdark... with Oil barrels all around. It just doesnt make any sense. I understand the yearning for an interactive surrounding to use in battle, but in DnD 5e it means tables that you can flip to get some cover, and not 8 flammable moonshine barrels in 12 by 12 feet baker's storage. It would be interesting as heck if the enemies would make use of that materials as well, but they just ignore it, whereas i can totally see a vicious DM having the enemy in a tabletob game just cast a firebolt into a random-ass barrel of oil that the players decided to surround.

The pathfinding for the AI is also so horrid as for now. In DoS games if one of the characters spotted a trap, he pointed it out so the others would just trail around it. Here? "Nah, imma totally walk on that pressure plate with spikes coming out of it, what is the worst thing that can happen". I know that this is an early access game, but, if they work on the same engine as DoS, they could at least copy some of the AI settings to spare themselfes some time.

Last edited by Armageddonis; 08/10/20 12:49 PM. Reason: missed a thing
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+1

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+1

If it ain't broke don't break it. If Larian just follows 5E balance from the outset, THEN they can figure out what needs to be changed for the gameplay. As it is, most issues with balance and gameplay stem directly from deviations from 5E ruleset and 5E ruleset offers the solutions. (Seriously guys, you gave phase spiders ranged AoE and poison resistance? And eating food lets you heal up to full making clerical magic replaceable by a potato!)

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Originally Posted by Oakmaster
And eating food lets you heal up to full making clerical magic replaceable by a potato!


I think that is probably fine. It's a better solution than short rest spam after every single encounter. It's not like you really want to waste your cleric spells outside of an encounter anyway. I think abuse of food healing could very easily be solved by a "Can't eat anymore, I'm full" after you've stuffed yourself. Make it so your character is "Full" untill your next long or short rest - that could encourage a clever use of both healing magic and food HP replenishment, as long as we have a "Fullness" gauge that is visible for your character.

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YEESSSSSS. This entire thread. I was going to post a thread myself saying make the game less divinity and more 5e.

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The divinity-like additions to this game ruin it.

We want 5e and just 5e, not a "divinity 5e". Divinity 5e ruins 5e, and many things in divinity are way too powerful for a 5e ruleset. Example: special archer arrows, grenades, the list could go on forever.

If the "divinity" parts of this game are not removed, this will go down in history as the worst Baldur's Gate ever made.

I can understand how the studio creating this game wants to put their "stamp" on it, but I for one wanted a 5e game.

If you are not willing to remove divinity features from this game, rename the game to "Divinity - Baldur's Gate" because that is exactly what this game is right now.


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Originally Posted by Armageddonis


...

I think that the change about disengage being a bonus action has been made to make the combat more interesting. It is obvious for a tabletop player that in order to disengage as a bonus action, you have to be a rogue, but it is not obvious to a casual player who might think "hey, why Astarion can jump/disengage as a bonus and my Heavy Armor Warrior cannot?" It's obvious for 5e players and DM's, but not for a random player who could feel like he wasted time by playing a class that cant jump and attack in the same round.


Looking at this, jump should be a bonus action, but it shouldn't ignore Attacks of Opportunity. They just need a separate Disengage ability that takes a full action to use to move out of melee for Attacks of Opportunity.

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Originally Posted by Armageddonis


I think that the change about disengage being a bonus action has been made to make the combat more interesting.



But it doesn't make it more interesting. My Wizard isn't really using Bonus Actions for anything else. So when someone engages me in melee, I can just bunny hop away and use my action without any penalties. In my opinion it cheapens/weakens positioning. Why should I care if I have my wizard on the frontline? It literally doesn't matter if someone gets into melee combat with him because my bonus action would normally be reserved for spells like Misty Step. Which... Uh... Literally is a bonus action disengage. Why would I ever prepare Misty Step when I have one built into my character?

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Originally Posted by Beenker
The divinity-like additions to this game ruin it.

We want 5e and just 5e, not a "divinity 5e". Divinity 5e ruins 5e, and many things in divinity are way too powerful for a 5e ruleset. Example: special archer arrows, grenades, the list could go on forever.

If the "divinity" parts of this game are not removed, this will go down in history as the worst Baldur's Gate ever made.

I can understand how the studio creating this game wants to put their "stamp" on it, but I for one wanted a 5e game.

If you are not willing to remove divinity features from this game, rename the game to "Divinity - Baldur's Gate" because that is exactly what this game is right now.




See I don't mind "some" of the surfaces remaining. I think there's definitely a place for a player to be like "I want to cast freezing ray on the water to freeze it." Those scenarios definitely exist when I'm DMing a game of 5e, and the surface interaction system from DOS2 could make those scenarios a bit more fun. But the problem is that everything seems to make a surface, casting single target spells make a surface at the person's feet regardless (dumb), and they invented random surfaces that don't even exist in 5e (acid splash anyone?).

Last edited by porrage; 10/10/20 04:21 PM.
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+1

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I fully agree they need to heavily tone down the "fun gameplay" additions they've made to 5e.

This includes:

- dipping weapons into fire (somehow metal catches fire and wood isn't destroyed?)
- eating mundane food items as a bonus action to heal while fighting in melee
- every cantrip creating surfaces (add an option to target ground if you want to create a surface)
- jumping in combat (Rogues and Monks have these abilities, not everyone)
- jumping ridiculously high
- the sheer amount of barrels, explosives, elemental AoE arrows, acid pools etc etc. gamey fun stuff

It's mostly a question of tone. While DOS can be wacky and tongue in cheek and go over the top, Baldurs Gate and D&D can not. BG and DnD carry a more realistic expectation. Original BG, IWD, NWN, all DnD games before have got this right. So let's respect this tradition please.


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Originally Posted by hylandpad
Originally Posted by Oakmaster
And eating food lets you heal up to full making clerical magic replaceable by a potato!


I think that is probably fine. It's a better solution than short rest spam after every single encounter. It's not like you really want to waste your cleric spells outside of an encounter anyway. I think abuse of food healing could very easily be solved by a "Can't eat anymore, I'm full" after you've stuffed yourself. Make it so your character is "Full" untill your next long or short rest - that could encourage a clever use of both healing magic and food HP replenishment, as long as we have a "Fullness" gauge that is visible for your character.

Yes I very much agree with that, food healing a little bit is a nice addition. It IS annoying when you need to top off your health or start short rest scumming. That said short rest healing should be limited due to 5E hit die rules. I.E you can only restore so much health over a number of short rests before you need a long rest to heal. I think the suggestions of a "fullness" gauge and limiting short rests to maybe 2 per long rest would satisfy most of us.

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