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0Muttley0 #696305 14/10/20 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 0Muttley0
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by 0Muttley0


It is set in and around the city of Baldur's Gate. That is all that is needed to make it a Baldur's Gate game.


That's YOUR point of view, because that's what define BG to YOU.
This is as stupid as saying BG3 doesn't look DoS at all because the rules are not the same.


No its not saying BG3 doesn't look like DoS at all. Thats you putting words in my mouth and is you saying I have
said something I clearly haven't. This is akin to outright lying on your part, and it also a totally irrational thing to infer.

Fact: The game is set in and around the city of Baldur's Gate.This makes it a Baldur's Gate game. It isn't opinion at all
on any level whatsover. There is no valid argument to say it is not a Baldur's Gate game. Sure it might not be the
Baldur's Gate game a lot of people want, but it is a Baldur's Gate game nonetheless.

Anyone trying to rationale that it isn't a Baldur's Gate game, no matter what 'evidence' they provide is like trying to
prove the earth is flat. All the details like game engine, rulesets,UI, gameplay etc are 100% redundant.

The game is set in and around the city of Baldur's Gate. That by definition makes it a Bauldur's Gate game.
You know it, I know it, and everyone else knows it..


Please, give me such unstoppable arguments to proove BG2 is not a BG game because it's arround Athkatla and not BG.....
And please try to find at least a single personn that agree with your statement^^

Originally Posted by 0Muttley0
Learn to admit, and accept you are wrong(and maybe re-evaluate your life too if this is your mindset).


biggrin
things like that make you looks like a selfish and capricious child

Last edited by Maximuuus; 14/10/20 12:43 PM.
CreepAngel #696311 14/10/20 12:41 PM
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no, I created the account to express my opinion, after all the forums are made for this, or am I wrong?

Maximuuus #696324 14/10/20 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by 0Muttley0
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by 0Muttley0


It is set in and around the city of Baldur's Gate. That is all that is needed to make it a Baldur's Gate game.


That's YOUR point of view, because that's what define BG to YOU.
This is as stupid as saying BG3 doesn't look DoS at all because the rules are not the same.


No its not saying BG3 doesn't look like DoS at all. Thats you putting words in my mouth and is you saying I have
said something I clearly haven't. This is akin to outright lying on your part, and it also a totally irrational thing to infer.

Fact: The game is set in and around the city of Baldur's Gate.This makes it a Baldur's Gate game. It isn't opinion at all
on any level whatsover. There is no valid argument to say it is not a Baldur's Gate game. Sure it might not be the
Baldur's Gate game a lot of people want, but it is a Baldur's Gate game nonetheless.

Anyone trying to rationale that it isn't a Baldur's Gate game, no matter what 'evidence' they provide is like trying to
prove the earth is flat. All the details like game engine, rulesets,UI, gameplay etc are 100% redundant.

The game is set in and around the city of Baldur's Gate. That by definition makes it a Bauldur's Gate game.
You know it, I know it, and everyone else knows it..


Please, give me such unstoppable arguments to proove BG2 is not a BG game because it's arround Athkatla and not BG.....
And please try to find at least a single personn that agree with your statement^^

Originally Posted by 0Muttley0
Learn to admit, and accept you are wrong(and maybe re-evaluate your life too if this is your mindset).


biggrin
things like that make you looks like a selfish and capricious child


But we aren't talking about Baldur's Gate 2.

Why the deflection?


Love and sausages xx
CreepAngel #696330 14/10/20 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by CreepAngel
no, I created the account to express my opinion, after all the forums are made for this, or am I wrong?

I think the problem you have is that you are not expressing any constructive criticism and have stated that you are not going to continue playing, and even that you will demand a refund. Presumably at that point the game will be removed from your life.

Why, do you believe, should anyone else care? You offer no suggestion for improvement beyond 'it is not what I thought it would be'. Well, okay, what you envisaged is probably clear in your own mind but that doesn't mean that your vision is the One and Only and that the game is bad because it doesn't meet those standards. All you are saying is that you don't like it and you are not gong to play it. Do you not see how making an account and thread to declare this is seen as odd?

Last edited by Sadurian; 14/10/20 12:49 PM.
CreepAngel #696335 14/10/20 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Originally Posted by Vitani
All those arguments about it not being BG3 flying around these formus and I have yet to find a person to actualy explain why. So let me try here: OP, what exactly should be made for it to be a Baldur's Gate 3?


It should use AD&D rules obvs, despite them being 2 editions out of date. And be in 2D, because, technology, FECK technology. And continue the Bhaalspawn story, despite it being concluded in Throne of Bhaal.


I agree, resurrect Irenicus, he was an awesome protagonist and did nothing wrong.

That being said though...

Originally Posted by CreepAngel
no, I created the account to express my opinion, after all the forums are made for this, or am I wrong?


The ability to do something doesn't mean you should. It would be really awesome if you were capable of digging into your emotions and elaborating them. You bore me, mageling.

porrage #696346 14/10/20 12:57 PM
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Because it seems to me a stretch, the setting, the characters, the rules of the game seem to be forced into a wrong context, I repeat, it is my personal opinion, I wanted to share it, everyone can share it or not share it, but not for this I have to think I'm stupid for what I wrote.

Limz #696348 14/10/20 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Limz
The ability to do something doesn't mean you should. It would be really awesome if you were capable of digging into your emotions and elaborating them. You bore me, mageling.



Exactly!

This is why I gave up flying at the age of about 4yo...

I remember it clearly. Mum had run me a bath and 'left me to it' whilst she went to cook the family's tea. I undressed myself, then I had a thought: Wait, climbing into the bath like others is so much hassle and also
time consuming(I was obsessed with time management at that age but that's another story). Why not just simply fly into the bath? Because, after all, I did have that ability when I was younger. Unfortunately I made
a mess of my takeoff, smashed my shins on the side of the bath and fell in with an almighty SPLASH! My mum came into the bathroom after hearing the commotion and walked into a scene where it looked like the
place had been hit by a tsunami. She asked me what happened, at which I gave her a condescening look as if the answer was obvious and mansplained what had happened to her.

The whole situation left me scarred and I stopped using my flying powers and now 36 years later I have lost the ability.

Last edited by 0Muttley0; 14/10/20 01:00 PM.

Love and sausages xx
porrage #696351 14/10/20 12:59 PM
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Because it seems to me a stretch, the setting, the characters, the rules of the game seem to be forced into a wrong context, I repeat, it is my personal opinion, I wanted to share it, everyone can share it or not share it, but not for this I have to think I'm stupid for what I wrote.
Originally Posted by Vitani
All those arguments about it not being BG3 flying around these formus and I have yet to find a person to actualy explain why. So let me try here: OP, what exactly should be made for it to be a Baldur's Gate 3?


because it seems to me a stretch, the setting, the characters, the rules of the game seem to be forced into a wrong context, I repeat, it is my personal opinion, I wanted to share it, everyone can share it or not share it, but not for this I have to think I'm stupid for what I wrote.

CreepAngel #696360 14/10/20 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by CreepAngel
Because it seems to me a stretch, the setting, the characters, the rules of the game seem to be forced into a wrong context, I repeat, it is my personal opinion, I wanted to share it, everyone can share it or not share it, but not for this I have to think I'm stupid for what I wrote.
Originally Posted by Vitani
All those arguments about it not being BG3 flying around these formus and I have yet to find a person to actualy explain why. So let me try here: OP, what exactly should be made for it to be a Baldur's Gate 3?


because it seems to me a stretch, the setting, the characters, the rules of the game seem to be forced into a wrong context, I repeat, it is my personal opinion, I wanted to share it, everyone can share it or not share it, but not for this I have to think I'm stupid for what I wrote.


You have yet to share your actual opinion, you have shared a preamble that's pretty much skippable.

CreepAngel #696365 14/10/20 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Vitanil
So let me try here: OP, what exactly should be made for it to be a Baldur's Gate 3?



Not the OP but its rather simple, implement 5e faithfully, Larian promised the game would operate on the 5e ruleset. Its hard to even recognize the relation to 5e at this point, its probably even worse for some of the old school BG players cause they hoped the game would be 2nd Edition. The simple answer you are looking for is this: it is not a faithful adaption of either 2nd Edition (for the Old Guard) and not a faithful adaption of 5e (for the New Guard).

The expectations were to not find a hybrid of DoS and DnD but to find DnD with changes made so the ruleset would work in a video game.

And no, none of the changes they have made so far are required for a video game, a good example of a very faithful implementation is Solasta, which is pretty much 5e and works like a charm.

Last edited by CrestOfArtorias; 14/10/20 01:09 PM.
Maximuuus #696381 14/10/20 01:14 PM
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Posts like this make me wonder why people would buy an early access game when they know nothing about it? I have been following this game for a while before release. I knew it was turn based, I've seen gameplay, and I knew it wouldn't be like the previous titles, and I was still excited because I love 5e and I always wanted a turn based D&D game. Also why would you buy an early access with the kind of mindset and enthusiasm you would have for a full release game? This seems to be a pattern with early access games, I saw the same type of deal with Bannerlord.

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Originally Posted by CrestOfArtorias
Its hard to even recognize the relation to 5e at this point


What about it makes you think this? The classes, the character sheet, the skill checks, the abilities, the action economy, the spells etc are all in pretty close alignment to 5e. There are some changes because there was going to have to be in adapting a tabletop to a video game where you can't program in DM judgement or the full scope of player creativity. I wouldn't say they're so great as to make the game unrecognisable. Some classes clearly need more pass over (like the rogue), jump and disengage should be separated out, the DC calculation is a bit confusing but adds up to the same thing. Other than that the only significant changes are with the combat where they've replaced the idea of 3/4 and half cover with elevation, and added environmental effects presumably in an effort to give tools for players to be creative.

porrage #696400 14/10/20 01:20 PM
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I'm having a hard time understanding these complaints. BG3 is D&D 5th edition and it plays exactly like a 5E tabletop session. The gameplay is wonderful in that regard. I know many are comparing it to DOS, but have you considered that DOS might've been inspired by D&D and not the other way around? I think the main reason they can create BG3 right now is because they've already set the foundation for it with their DOS games. They don't have to invent all of the game mechanics and instead they can focus on improving graphics, better music and story and adding in those lovely cutscenes. BG1 and BG2, i believe, were using the 2nd edition or 3.5 edition of D&D, so it makes sense for them to be different gameplay-wise.


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Funny when people say <amazing game!> <just wow, cant get enough> with no detail whatsoever on why they like it, no one criticizes. But when someone just give they short opinion on why they disliked it , then everyone goes bananas.
I also think its more DOS2.5 than BG3.
My biggest complaint <right now> are the items. AGAIN being Larianized. TOO MANY MAGICAL ITEMS. Too much JUNK as in DOS and DOS2 AGAIN.

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 14/10/20 01:28 PM.
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Originally Posted by CrestOfArtorias
Its hard to even recognize the relation to 5e at this point,

I've seen this s few times and cannot understand how people draw this conclusion. The game is quite clearly using D&D5, with a few modifications it is true. The races, classes, leveling, spells, attributes, skills, feats/class abilities, monsters, combat system, action/turn system.... and so many more fundamental parts of the game are D&D5. Not only is easy to recognise the relation to 5e, it is hard to miss it!

Originally Posted by CrestOfArtorias
its probably even worse for some of the old school BG players cause they hoped the game would be 2nd Edition.

I'm an old-school BG player, and also and old-school PnP AD&D player. Larian stated from the outset that the game would be using D&D 5e. The continued to reiterate this throughout the development process. The BG3 Steam page states that it is 'based on the D&D 5e ruleset'. At this point, anyone expecting the game to use an outdated rule edition that hasn't seen light of day for 20 years is seriously lacking somewhere. Buying a game at EA without reading any of the accompanying information? You get what you deserve.

"I once bought a FIFA football game and was appalled to see that it didn't feature golf but instead some strange game of kicking a ball."

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Originally Posted by Braxton
Originally Posted by CrestOfArtorias
Its hard to even recognize the relation to 5e at this point


What about it makes you think this? The classes, the character sheet, the skill checks, the abilities, the action economy, the spells etc are all in pretty close alignment to 5e. There are some changes because there was going to have to be in adapting a tabletop to a video game where you can't program in DM judgement or the full scope of player creativity. I wouldn't say they're so great as to make the game unrecognisable. Some classes clearly need more pass over (like the rogue), jump and disengage should be separated out, the DC calculation is a bit confusing but adds up to the same thing. Other than that the only significant changes are with the combat where they've replaced the idea of 3/4 and half cover with elevation, and added environmental effects presumably in an effort to give tools for players to be creative.


I agree with some of your points here, but the "changes needs to be made when adapting" argument is trite. I am sure he is referring to changes that was unnecessary when adapting the game to a video game form. Like the action economy and spells you mention yourself. What you view as minor changes, he views as major changes. Stuff like that is very subjective.

Raiyan #696429 14/10/20 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Raiyan
BG3 is D&D 5th edition and it plays exactly like a 5E tabletop session.
A lot of important aspects of 5e have been changed or are missing, for no apparent reason. It's not clear how much of this was inadvertent vs deliberate.

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Originally Posted by Braxton
Originally Posted by CrestOfArtorias
Its hard to even recognize the relation to 5e at this point


What about it makes you think this? The classes, the character sheet, the skill checks, the abilities, the action economy, the spells etc are all in pretty close alignment to 5e. There are some changes because there was going to have to be in adapting a tabletop to a video game where you can't program in DM judgement or the full scope of player creativity. I wouldn't say they're so great as to make the game unrecognisable. Some classes clearly need more pass over (like the rogue), jump and disengage should be separated out, the DC calculation is a bit confusing but adds up to the same thing. Other than that the only significant changes are with the combat where they've replaced the idea of 3/4 and half cover with elevation, and added environmental effects presumably in an effort to give tools for players to be creative.



Aight, lets start with action economy.

Some of the core aspects of combat are missing and some of the changes to the classes are really bad.

[Action Economy Stuff]
[*]Dodge Action is missing
[*]Disengage is a bonus action for everyone
[*]Ready Action is not present
[*]No idea why "Dip" has a dedicated button in the UI
[*]Shove is an action and not a bonus action, this change severly lessens the impact of the Shieldmaster Feat
[*]The Help/Aid action does not confer advantage

[Classes]
[*]Rogues, you are aware of it so no need to repeat it
[*]Abjuration Wizards were nerfed for no apparent reason and the spells meant to fuel their ward ability are essentially gone
[*]No ritual casting for any of the classes
[*]Druids die when their wildshape is defeated
[*]Warlocks Hex now lasts till the next long rest, Warlocks should get their spell slots back after a short rest, hence why they only have so few

[Spells]
[*]Several spells integral to base 5e are missing (Shield, Spiritual Weapon etc)
[*]Several were altered to allows for a surface interactions that were never part of the combat system in 5e. Don't get me wrong spell like Minor Illusion are great but are too complex to be fully implemented into a video game but Mage Hand not being able to trigger traps, loot inventories, but able to "shove", please.
[*]Spells like Find Familar have been completely changed and the abilities of the familars have also been changed.

I can go on and on, but the easiest way would be you checking out Solasta then boot up BG3 and tell me which one plays more like 5e.




Last edited by CrestOfArtorias; 14/10/20 01:32 PM.
porrage #696437 14/10/20 01:35 PM
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Here we go again, the D&D mob going at it again, sucking all the FUN out of the game with their demands to make it like PnP 5e. For D&Desk simulation just go play Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Its got everything you'll ever want in stats, numbers, classes, spells etc.... wink

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 14/10/20 01:37 PM.
Sadurian #696438 14/10/20 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Sadurian
Originally Posted by CrestOfArtorias
Its hard to even recognize the relation to 5e at this point,

I've seen this s few times and cannot understand how people draw this conclusion. The game is quite clearly using D&D5, with a few modifications it is true. The races, classes, leveling, spells, attributes, skills, feats/class abilities, monsters, combat system, action/turn system.... and so many more fundamental parts of the game are D&D5. Not only is easy to recognise the relation to 5e, it is hard to miss it!

Originally Posted by CrestOfArtorias
its probably even worse for some of the old school BG players cause they hoped the game would be 2nd Edition.

I'm an old-school BG player, and also and old-school PnP AD&D player. Larian stated from the outset that the game would be using D&D 5e. The continued to reiterate this throughout the development process. The BG3 Steam page states that it is 'based on the D&D 5e ruleset'. At this point, anyone expecting the game to use an outdated rule edition that hasn't seen light of day for 20 years is seriously lacking somewhere. Buying a game at EA without reading any of the accompanying information? You get what you deserve.

"I once bought a FIFA football game and was appalled to see that it didn't feature golf but instead some strange game of kicking a ball."



Eh yeah I agree its supposed to be 5e. I haven't stated otherwise. I was pointing out that there are two factions in the forums who have a similar argument, the difference being which edition they are focused on.

I won't gatekeep or downplay your experience, but not only do I think so, literally everyone in my 5e sessions, said essentially the same, some have already refunded the game and some hope it changes. We could argue what makes the game more like 5e or less like 5e, we might just have different understandings of what "being 5e" means.

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