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Joined: Jul 2014
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I didn't. So, your wish has been granted.

I wish you wouldn't falsely accuse other people. Having a preferred combat system is fine. But taking issue with people pointing out facts to the point that you make things up about them is being a fanboy. I wish you wouldn't do that.

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yeah sure man, theres only 30 something pages of this very discussion, but youve got it all figured out and laying down the facts.
whew! if only we couldve saked you from the beginning.

Nonsense.
theres a thread for it, im not repeating myself on that.
These are not "facts" and it appears that larian doesnt agree with you either

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I certainly do have some things figured out. And you've tried to attack some of those things but with false arguments. Larian's choice for D:OS3's combat system doesn't reveal what Larian agrees with concerning RTwP or TB. It only shows that they sees themselves as a one-trick pony and are afraid of trying to do anything different (which they literally stated in an interview). But if you think Larian are fully set in their way, why do you react with rage to people discussing the topic? It seems you are emotionally defending a perspective that you think is unable to stand on its own merits.

Joined: Nov 2019
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Originally Posted by Delicieuxz

- there's room for more tactics compared to TB because of the added variable of timing, while still being able to pause at any time

- setting up AI scripts and watching them play out can be a real pleasure, and AI scripts add another layer of tactics that aren't present in TB

- it allows for a broader range of encounter types than TB

- it affords more natural looking environments instead of environments that look artificially designed to be small confined boxes with artificially-placed obstacles

- combat areas are not obvious zones with pre-planned starting positions for NPCs and scripted NPC moves and attack patterns


Adding time as a variable is one added layer. But there are tactical depth in turnbased that are not apparent how to pull off in a RTwP system, offering different types of reactions to actions for example. Each system have their ways where additional tactical layers are possible. Therefore not a fact.

Setting up AI scripts being a pleasure is subjective, and it doesn't add a layer of tactic, it takes away from tactics since it is limited by what was scripted. Not fact.

TB and RTwP allows the same encounter types. There is nothing preventing it. Not fact.

TB games does not have to have small contained boxes and artificially places objects. Not fact.

TB games does not have to feature pre-planned starting positions for NPC, nor set moves and attack patterns (at least not more set than rtwp). Not fact.

There are TB games out there that disproves these points. Therefore not facts.

Last edited by Waeress; 01/03/20 12:33 AM.
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Originally Posted by Delicieuxz
RTwP is certainly more immersive and sophisticated than TB. That's not even something that can be argued against. RTwP contains tall he mechanics of TB, with added layers on top - and that makes it literally more sophisticated. Some RTwP games can even be played in TB mode. Since RTwP is TB + more, it's definitively more sophisticated, complex, and offers more possibilities.


I have nothing against RTwP and played several thousand hours of RTwP games in the last 5 years - but that statement is just blatantly wrong.
As for example Deadfire shows (where we have RTwP and TB mode in one game) they are two different beasts and it's rel. easy to see what sets them apart.
It's rather obvious that TB is not a subset of RTwP. Also RTwP doesn't offer more possibilities per se.

Declaring opinion as "facts" and telling people what they can argue against or not is not the best discussion style by the way...

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Originally Posted by Waeress
Originally Posted by Delicieuxz

- there's room for more tactics compared to TB because of the added variable of timing, while still being able to pause at any time

- setting up AI scripts and watching them play out can be a real pleasure, and AI scripts add another layer of tactics that aren't present in TB

- it allows for a broader range of encounter types than TB

- it affords more natural looking environments instead of environments that look artificially designed to be small confined boxes with artificially-placed obstacles

- combat areas are not obvious zones with pre-planned starting positions for NPCs and scripted NPC moves and attack patterns


Adding time as a variable is one added layer. But there are tactical depth in turnbased that are not apparent how to pull off in a RTwP system, offering different types of reactions to actions for example. Each system have their ways where additional tactical layers are possible. Therefore not a fact.

Setting up AI scripts being a pleasure is subjective, and it doesn't add a layer of tactic, it takes away from tactics since it is limited by what was scripted. Not fact.

TB and RTwP allows the same encounter types. There is nothing preventing it. Not fact.

TB games does not have to have small contained boxes and artificially places objects. Not fact.

TB games does not have to feature pre-planned starting positions for NPC, nor set moves and attack patterns (at least not more set than rtwp). Not fact.


Yet, if you've played modern TB PCRPGs, you know they have conformed to those restrictions I mentioned. And those restrictions make those games less immersive and feeling less like real environments and more like a collection of artificially-cultivated small boxes of scripted fights.

TB style gameplay seems to not hold-up in expansive environments. When I said RTwP "allows" for a broader range of encounter types and more natural environments, I meant that it works well with RTwP better because to make use of TB, the placements and moves of NPCs need to be scripted to the TB. So, there are concessions to the game world and the naturalness and immersiveness of the environments in order to make TB play well.

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Originally Posted by Delicieuxz
Um, but Larian's "Baldur's Gate 3" doesn't look like a next-gen game. It looks almost exactly like D:OS2, which is a last-gen game.


These style of games aren't next-gen drivers as there are 100's if not 1000's of games that aren't next-gen in looks.

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For those who still trying to convince yourself that you hate to be wrong and thought you were right and want to stick to your guns, well it's your loss! Ha, don't play this game because it doesn't look like BG1-2. Larian made an amazing game and will succeed without you. BALDUR"S GATE 3 is going to be awesome, I for one can't wait to try 5th edition rules.

And I'm sure Larian studios will add some improvements into this game since it's still in pre-alpha. Case closed, move on with your lives. Go play WOTR or realms beyond, I know I will be playing those games too. Heck, I'll play any DnD game, I'm not picky like some of you.

Joined: May 2019
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Originally Posted by Braveheart
For those who still trying to convince yourself that you hate to be wrong and thought you were right and want to stick to your guns, well it's your loss! Ha, don't play this game because it doesn't look like BG1-2. Larian made an amazing game and will succeed without you. BALDUR"S GATE 3 is going to be awesome, I for one can't wait to try 5th edition rules.

And I'm sure Larian studios will add some improvements into this game since it's still in pre-alpha. Case closed, move on with your lives. Go play WOTR or realms beyond, I know I will be playing those games too. Heck, I'll play any DnD game, I'm not picky like some of you.

Try to make me stop criticizing the game. I dare you.

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I add my personal points:

6. One map for one location to visit with a big world map and the possibility of returning from former areas. The system of ONE BIG Map for one Act in Divinity isn't BG friendly and it's an immersion breacker.

7. Incantations for wizard spell!!!!!! Not just click and KABOOM FIRE EFFECT!

8. Of course the UI is too close of Divinity. We want an UI with wood and stone, a little more gloomy and traditional.

9. "Ahh, the Child of Bhaal has awoken."

A VERY VERY BADASS MAIN VILAIN! Sarevok and Irenicus was deep and very iconic, like Hitchcock said "A good story is a story with a good vilain". I hope Illithid Master isn't the real final boss. I have big hope with Cult of the Dead Three (a very good connexion with the Bhaal Legacy and the new context of DD5).

10. A LOT of charismatic NPC Companions and not just 5 or 6 Origin Divinity' style NPC.... And please true ROMANCES and a lot of PARTY BANTERS.

11. A very good and long adventure with local issues and not just ultra epic and cosmic issue, it's an other immersion breacker imo. Less epic for epicness and more coherent and realistic background. Less High Fantasy for Millenials and more MEDIEVAL fantasy with historic soul and deep conflicts.

In summary, a good glass of old-fashioned wiskhy in front of a crackling fireplace, an old library and a hunting trophy. Not a smooth and clean atmosphere like the design of the latest iphone.

12. Custom portrait and real character sheet.

13. A little less colorfull ambience, BG universe is more realistic and less shiny and high fantasy than Divinity.

14. Less WTF moments and jokes than Divinity, BG universe is serious and deep with subtle touches of humor like Jan Jansen and Minsc quotes.

An attack of shoes is fun but it's also useless and not the spirit of the licence.

15. Please, a true group of 6 adventurers ( During the demo I have seen only 4 slots of characters...).

16. Of course, a lot of easter eggs with the BG series (Viconia, Sarevok, events, locations, ...).

17. BG Music' style or remix! Even today the first notes of the main theme of BG1 or BG2 still very iconic.

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Originally Posted by DaKatarn
I add my personal points:
7. Incantations for wizard spell!!!!!! Not just click and KABOOM FIRE EFFECT!


I like all of your suggestions.

Only incantations will prolongate spell casting a lot. Combat feels slow. Incantations will make it even longer.
My observation is to make combat snappy and faster.

Irenicus dungeon has about 15 encounters. Those encounters in BG3 would last too long.

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