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ThreeL Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Redunzgofasta
Originally Posted by ThreeL
Especially this is not really D&D. Yes of course the rules and algorithm of the game are based on that now, but the logic and overall feeling is not what D&D.
I played some tabletop rounds and never ever introduced a group like "yeah iam a half elf, but my secret is that iam evil vampire". "oh wow and I have a bomb in my chest"... Also you were never able to set your arrows magical on fire especially on level 1. You were also never able to do the hulk jumps. There's so much that's not D&D even from a gameplay perspective.

I've played almost 40 years of D&D and have been playing video games even longer and I've never seen anything so much resembling tabletop D&D as the BG3 gameplay reveal.
Nobody in that reveal introduced themselves as "yeah iam a half elf, but my secret is that iam evil vampire", you are simply making that up. And the "bomb" is something those mentioning it know of eachother as the have seen eachother on the ship and are aware of what happened, and there is a telepatic link between the characters due to the tadpole in their brain.. Again you are simply twisting the truth to make a point.
The "hulk jumps" clearly also is a side effect of the tadpole in your brain, so again, no issue there.
If you think "There's so much that's not D&D even from a gameplay perspective." you aren't very familiar with D&D, if at all.


Yes of course, I know nothing and you everything. That's a good way to discuss

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Originally Posted by ThreeL
Originally Posted by Redunzgofasta
Originally Posted by ThreeL
Especially this is not really D&D. Yes of course the rules and algorithm of the game are based on that now, but the logic and overall feeling is not what D&D.
I played some tabletop rounds and never ever introduced a group like "yeah iam a half elf, but my secret is that iam evil vampire". "oh wow and I have a bomb in my chest"... Also you were never able to set your arrows magical on fire especially on level 1. You were also never able to do the hulk jumps. There's so much that's not D&D even from a gameplay perspective.

I've played almost 40 years of D&D and have been playing video games even longer and I've never seen anything so much resembling tabletop D&D as the BG3 gameplay reveal.
Nobody in that reveal introduced themselves as "yeah iam a half elf, but my secret is that iam evil vampire", you are simply making that up. And the "bomb" is something those mentioning it know of eachother as the have seen eachother on the ship and are aware of what happened, and there is a telepatic link between the characters due to the tadpole in their brain.. Again you are simply twisting the truth to make a point.
The "hulk jumps" clearly also is a side effect of the tadpole in your brain, so again, no issue there.
If you think "There's so much that's not D&D even from a gameplay perspective." you aren't very familiar with D&D, if at all.


Yes of course, I know nothing and you everything. That's a good way to discuss

At least I am providing arguments and proof instead of just making statements that aren't true.

Last edited by Redunzgofasta; 03/03/20 07:50 AM.

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>the feel of DnD
unless you talk about pre ADnD, then there probably is no such thing as each group plays differently and very few groups outside of the OSR bubble focus exclusiveley on dungeon crawling.

Definitly going with the orky one here. Provide some actual arguments not just feelings.

on the companions, while im not sold on em, theres also probably not a lot of DnD campaigns starting with "you are the child of bhaal".
Chosen one plots tend to be looke down upon as characters in DnD have a tendency to die and making the entire plot stupid (which of course would not actually be true in Baldurs Gate since theres several bhaalspawn and you could make a campaign just out of that, but its certainly not usual)

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I'd say it's visuals, animation and skill-design that makes this game look like a DOS 3, but not the turn-based system and else. BG3, to my opinion, should have less brightness, less sparks, less glister. And sounds of skills are so resembling.. I don't know how they should do this, but it's just DOS style of "set-ready-go" for spells and skills.
And for the turn based, I've heard it will be party vs party system of initiative, which is dumb, to my opinion. It would force players to boost dexterity to make their turns come first. Why don't keep it table-top alike, since they want the game to resemble it as much?

And for jumps, that everyone mention, those should actually get rough checks and low results get punished much. Like falling unconscious, breaking leg ect. This could make it 'highrisk-highreward"

Last edited by asirisprime; 03/03/20 03:32 PM.
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As a relatively young BG2EE fan, and also a DOS2 player, I totally agree with OP.

Will I buy BG3 if it will just look like DOS? Probably yes.

Is this what I expected as a BG fan? Definitely not.

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Originally Posted by Redunzgofasta
Originally Posted by ThreeL
Especially this is not really D&D. Yes of course the rules and algorithm of the game are based on that now, but the logic and overall feeling is not what D&D.
I played some tabletop rounds and never ever introduced a group like "yeah iam a half elf, but my secret is that iam evil vampire". "oh wow and I have a bomb in my chest"... Also you were never able to set your arrows magical on fire especially on level 1. You were also never able to do the hulk jumps. There's so much that's not D&D even from a gameplay perspective.

I've played almost 40 years of D&D and have been playing video games even longer and I've never seen anything so much resembling tabletop D&D as the BG3 gameplay reveal.
Nobody in that reveal introduced themselves as "yeah iam a half elf, but my secret is that iam evil vampire", you are simply making that up. And the "bomb" is something those mentioning it know of eachother as the have seen eachother on the ship and are aware of what happened, and there is a telepatic link between the characters due to the tadpole in their brain.. Again you are simply twisting the truth to make a point.
The "hulk jumps" clearly also is a side effect of the tadpole in your brain, so again, no issue there.
If you think "There's so much that's not D&D even from a gameplay perspective." you aren't very familiar with D&D, if at all.


Are you saying only the pc character can do the jump?

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Originally Posted by wpmaura

Are you saying only the pc character can do the jump?


Swen says during the gameplay demo when the first jump is made during the first combat that it is enhanced by the tadpole.

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All the characters have tadpoles. We don't know if the abilities, that the tadpoles give, are all completely different for each character or if some are the same yet.

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Atmosphere

Don't confuse better graphics with being bright. Sure, Dark Souls has good graphics with a "dark" mood. But it's Forgotten Realms, not Hades.

As for DOS2 being too cutesy or whatever. There are bodies and body parts everywhere. At the entrance to Fort Joy an npc is forced to cut out her own tongue before being obliterated. There is a shakedown by thugs inside. A torture chamber inside the keep. It's not a bright and cheery atmosphere at all.

Characters

I was never into the whole vampire thing, so I can agree with you there. But some people really dig it; and they do exist in D&D, so there is room to play with it. And the characters in BG1 & 2 being more interesting than DOS2? Maybe? Probably? But will the characters in BG3 end up not being as good as BG1 & 2? We just don't know.

Dialogues

It's not a novel. There needs to be a certain level of curtness to the conversations. As for the quality of the voice acting and such as seen in the demo? I thought they did a great job.


Humor

Humor can and often does go wrong. So, yeah, minimize or eliminate it. With ya.


Gameplay/Animations

The animations are fine overall. The jumping thing? Could be better, but nothing to get worked up over. It's really a petty detail.

Four party members? No big deal at all with DOS2. How will it work with D&D rules? Can't really say, but are you saying the only viable D&D party is a party of six or more? I doubt it.

General thoughts

Similar beginning is lame, I agree. But again, nothing to get worked up over. You move past it quickly enough. It's what follows that matters more.

Over the top feeling? I don't know what you mean.

Origin stories only add some depth. Most games give you one background (like BG did) or none at all. I don't see the problem.

Quote
think deeply what Baldurs Gate is


Unless you are just summarizing what you have so far written, what "Baldurs Gate is" is too subjective.


All in all, though, I appreciate you trying to be thorough in explaining how you feel.

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ThreeL Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Emrikol
Atmosphere

Don't confuse better graphics with being bright. Sure, Dark Souls has good graphics with a "dark" mood. But it's Forgotten Realms, not Hades.

As for DOS2 being too cutesy or whatever. There are bodies and body parts everywhere. At the entrance to Fort Joy an npc is forced to cut out her own tongue before being obliterated. There is a shakedown by thugs inside. A torture chamber inside the keep. It's not a bright and cheery atmosphere at all.

Characters

I was never into the whole vampire thing, so I can agree with you there. But some people really dig it; and they do exist in D&D, so there is room to play with it. And the characters in BG1 & 2 being more interesting than DOS2? Maybe? Probably? But will the characters in BG3 end up not being as good as BG1 & 2? We just don't know.

Dialogues

It's not a novel. There needs to be a certain level of curtness to the conversations. As for the quality of the voice acting and such as seen in the demo? I thought they did a great job.


Humor

Humor can and often does go wrong. So, yeah, minimize or eliminate it. With ya.


Gameplay/Animations

The animations are fine overall. The jumping thing? Could be better, but nothing to get worked up over. It's really a petty detail.

Four party members? No big deal at all with DOS2. How will it work with D&D rules? Can't really say, but are you saying the only viable D&D party is a party of six or more? I doubt it.

General thoughts

Similar beginning is lame, I agree. But again, nothing to get worked up over. You move past it quickly enough. It's what follows that matters more.

Over the top feeling? I don't know what you mean.

Origin stories only add some depth. Most games give you one background (like BG did) or none at all. I don't see the problem.

Quote
think deeply what Baldurs Gate is


Unless you are just summarizing what you have so far written, what "Baldurs Gate is" is too subjective.


All in all, though, I appreciate you trying to be thorough in explaining how you feel.



That's what I tried to explain. Even the beginning of the demo is by its content not a nice shiny situation. There is alot of blood, there are little brains attacking you, fire etc. but you just don't feel like it's a dangerous situation. The graphics on their own are not bad, but actually much too clean, which results in a much happier atmosphere than intended.

Yeah let's see, but also that of cause he is playable they needed a vampire who is not affected by light - what a coincidence that this is the effect of the mind flayer.

Yes its not a novel, but iam expecting that characters don't act like they know that they are in a videogame. They came from this horrible experience, nearby died and all they say is "oh its you, let's find a healer". Great dialouge.

I just say about the partysize, that when you have 15 classes you can't mix so much as it was possible in BG. For propper playing you need at least 4 in D&D.

I really don't know why origin characters add deepness in the game. I see just a huge disadvantage when you create your own character. Why they can't just make the special background choose able like in Dragon Age Origins? That way you would be able to choose an extended background without beeing forced to play a pre-made one. Especially you see before playing the game every possible partymember.

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ok, and how does the graphic of the old games look like?
do you genuinly feel threatened by 2d graphics?

you did this to yourself.
you refuse to immerse yourself so it doesnt feel dangerous...

this is you.

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Originally Posted by ThreeL
I really don't know why origin characters add deepness in the game. I see just a huge disadvantage when you create your own character. Why they can't just make the special background choose able like in Dragon Age Origins? That way you would be able to choose an extended background without beeing forced to play a pre-made one.

It is entirely possible to have backgrounds that do not depend on specifics of the character (or limited characteristics), but they can not be as detailed as one where more information is known about the character.

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Originally Posted by Raze
Originally Posted by ThreeL
I really don't know why origin characters add deepness in the game. I see just a huge disadvantage when you create your own character. Why they can't just make the special background choose able like in Dragon Age Origins? That way you would be able to choose an extended background without beeing forced to play a pre-made one.

It is entirely possible to have backgrounds that do not depend on specifics of the character (or limited characteristics), but they can not be as detailed as one where more information is known about the character.

But why not? Besides I don't like the origin system, the dragon age version would be better. Also a downside is, that you from the beginning know your possible companions, while in other games (not only bg2) its always surprising and sometimes you find companions much later. But here in BG3 you also know from the beginning a bit about their story already, which is also not good.

I really don't see any need to stick to that concept while it was even in dos2 one of the worse things

Last edited by ThreeL; 04/03/20 12:04 PM.
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Is there any indication that there will be no more than five possible companions in the entire game?

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+1
Agree with everything
Mainly with the "colorful" atmosphere
They urgently need to change that frown

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Originally Posted by korotama
Is there any indication that there will be no more than five possible companions in the entire game?


It will be more than 5,they've already said it. Some people speculate 1 companion for each class.

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I was just "roaming" and reading posts on this forum, and once i've read this post, i needed to create an account and login, just to reply:

Forgotten Realm (the world where Baldur's Gate series is based on) is the MOST HIGH FANTASY WORLD from ALL Dungeons & Dragons official settings. So, it has NOTHING to a "very dirty, harsh nearby mediaeval world". Waterdeep, for example, is considered a "Victorian City" in the middle of the Sword Coast. Also, the seeting has almost every possible playable race for players.... and Vampire spawns are absolutetly possible, since one of the most famous characters in FR lore, is a good Ranger that came from Underdark, and from one of the most evil Races in D&D Lore: Drows. This, sure, if you consider only the "good" alignment possibility. Because, with Drows and Githyanki, I am almost sure that the game will have options for Evil characters too.

Don't wanna look rude or arrogant... but those lines seens you don't know Forgotten Realms.

Sorry for bad english!

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Originally Posted by ThreeL
Originally Posted by Raze
It is entirely possible to have backgrounds that do not depend on specifics of the character (or limited characteristics), but they can not be as detailed as one where more information is known about the character.

But why not?

Because you literally have to avoid making any kind of references to the nature of the character. If you don't know the name of a character, they always have to be addressed with a title or nickname. If you don't know the race or class, that similarly restricts what kind of stories and interactions they can have.
Backgrounds can be based on a profession, etc, and apply to any race or gender, or there could be multiple permutations that took race and/or gender into account, but they could not be as detailed as if they were written for a specific character.

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As for the Origin characters, sure, you know more about them than other characters off the bat, but you guys saw that you can kill them right?

Swen in one play through to the media showed how the vampire literally drank Shadowheart dry. Dead, gone.
There will undoubtedly be other characters to recruit with interesting stories, quest and romance options that come later on and will not be origin characters, which are just there to give people something to choose should their own imagination not want to stretch to custom characters.

As long as custom characters have potential story arcs based upon race, profession etc... then I’m totally ok with this. And yeah, it’s a damn shame that my custom names won’t be spoken by the NPC’s in game, but you know... ;-p

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one of my biggest put off.. was astarion. his character design looks so modern and perhaps a little jrpg feel. his hair, his face his clothing.. doesn't seems to click well at all to me. i kinda "hate" him so much at this point. the rest of the companions looks fine.

the jumping and pushing.. seems really out of place. if they were to change it to magical teleporting that would have been much better. the shoving, jumping effects seems like a very funny game and seems out of place in a baldur's gate setting.

how projectiles travel, UI aesthetics and highlights shown exactly like DOS2. why not put some effort in making it less reminiscent of DOS? or is larian just want to tell everyone this is Divinity Gate Baldur's Sin? i really don't get it. if not mistaken, solasta a turn-based D&D RPG with elevation didn't even make people feel or think that it looks like Divinity. why hell on earth that Larian want BG3 to look like DOS2? it's BG for god sake. even they are making it, it should has it's own identitty.

there's a cutscene with a gnome with a big head? that character design (although just a side character) seems out of proportion and didn't seem fit in the character design that belongs in forgotten realm. alot of those assets need rework. the art and assets looks really off and doesn't belongs in a baldur's gate settings.


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