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00zim00 Offline OP
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Im not to familiar with how Larian usually interacts with their community, but I feel like some clarification on their part may put alot of these discussions to bed (hopefully). The only responses I have seen are from interviews or tweets which either deflect the questions or just make things more confusing by just creating more contentious questions. Not to mention that if their are answers out there they are spread out across many mediums meaning people are discussing bg3 without all the released information in mind.

I know the game is still in early development and alot of the questions may not be answerable at this stage. But it seems, to me at least, that their are some questions Larian can answer. Even if its just a reassurance to alleviate the tensions between community members. I feel like the longer we have to wait for these answers the more divided people will become and in the long run all it is doing is hurting the community and in turn perhaps even BG3 itself.

Thank you for any responses.

Last edited by 00zim00; 03/03/20 04:30 AM.
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Yes, of course, it was. In the Blizzard way. Here is the tweet of Swen Vincke:

"Flying back home after a very intensive 3 week reveal trip. Tired but super motivated by the fantastic reception and words of encouragement. Thank you everyone who reached out to us - we’re very lucky to have such a positive community. It’s very inspiring".

So, basically, "we did everything fine and perfect. I know forums, comments on reddit, facebook and twitter are basically a fight due the huge wave of dissapointment but they are wrong, cuase they dont think like me and my supporters. There is no need to communicate anything to those people, cause they are wrrong, and I am right".

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They don't see fans of the old games as their "community" as far as I can tell. To tell you the truth, they (along with the IP's owners) think the former are comprised mostly of basement-dwelling 30 and 40-year-olds who are out of touch with the times. At least that's what the latest interview with one of the game's writers appears to suggest. Should I start feeling old?

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00zim00;
A lot of people just got back from E3 PAX. Responding will take some time.


Briche;
That is an externally uncharitable interpretation of the tweet, deliberately ignoring the context in the tweet itself.
The reception during the press events the last 3 weeks was overwhelmingly positive. The reception at PAX was overwhelmingly positive; people stood in line for up to 2 hours to get into the booth, and there were PAX employees making sure the line didn't grow beyond a certain point, to keep it from getting longer than that.

Fantastic does not equate to perfect, or universal.
Do you need to make things up, to have a reason to be offended?



Last edited by Raze; 03/03/20 01:05 PM.
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Larian Studios you are doing great work let the peoples cool down for a while.

Peoples have a very fixed image of the old games in their minds specific to 20 year old tech, artistic influences going back to the 80s, a Forgotten Realms that does not exist anymore (as it has changed as well by WotC) and a DND ruleset that does not exist anymore (2nd edition is wildly different to 5e).

Peoples will take a while to get over that BG3 is different. I am an old P&P geek and BG lover myself who grew up on the old stuff but I understand that you have to evolve and cloning BG1/2/IWdale was never going to happen. So I am happy that a competent company that makes authentic products has picked this up.

Reacting to constructive criticisms is good but don't let the flood get to you. Some of those peoples will cool down, some will buy the game anyway even while still complaining and a few you are never going to convince even if you would comply to most of their demands.


In the end you have to make your own creative decisions and feedback on specifics is great but the overall design lead decisions have been made and should not be warped by this passing wave. If the game and story are good this will die down.

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Originally Posted by Raze

00zim00;
A lot of people just got back from E3. Responding will take some time.


Briche;
That is an externally uncharitable interpretation of the tweet, deliberately ignoring the context in the tweet itself.
The reception during the press events the last 3 weeks was overwhelmingly positive. The reception at PAX was overwhelmingly positive; people stood in line for up to 2 hours to get into the booth, and there were PAX employees making sure the line didn't grow beyond a certain point, to keep it from getting longer than that.

Fantastic does not equate to perfect, or universal.
Do you need to make things up, to have a reason to be offended?





Of course is an interpretation out of context... but it is the only thing we have. I know Sven lives in this world and he knows what is happening in game industry: media and journalist use to be positive and give higher rates than than the users. He can be happy with the press, but im sure he knows what is going on in forums, facebook, twitter, reddit. He is just ignoring it. Larians Silece only create the untrust sensation over the good image they have previosly. That is why I said: in Blizzard style, they are the good example of a company completly far from the fanbase.

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Originally Posted by Raze

00zim00;
A lot of people just got back from E3. Responding will take some time.


Briche;
That is an externally uncharitable interpretation of the tweet, deliberately ignoring the context in the tweet itself.
The reception during the press events the last 3 weeks was overwhelmingly positive. The reception at PAX was overwhelmingly positive; people stood in line for up to 2 hours to get into the booth, and there were PAX employees making sure the line didn't grow beyond a certain point, to keep it from getting longer than that.

Fantastic does not equate to perfect, or universal.
Do you need to make things up, to have a reason to be offended?




Yeah but that's always when a new game of an interesting brand like BG comes out. The response I incredibly negative. The group that are okay with BG3 now are mostly people who never played BG2.

Last edited by ThreeL; 03/03/20 12:05 PM.
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Originally Posted by Briche
He is just ignoring it.

He is not ignoring it. The tweet was a general response to the press tour and PAX (no idea why I typed E3 above). It is not the end of communication. Besides, I'm sure you want a response more elaborate than a tweet, do you not?

Re-reading the last line, it comes off much harsher than I had intended, so I apologise for that.


Originally Posted by ThreeL
The group that are okay with BG3 now are mostly people who never played BG2.

There are actually quite a few fans of BG 1 and 2 who are enthusiastic about BG3. As the game develops we'll be doing what we can to win over as many of those as possible who currently have concerns.

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I wouldn't expect much in the way of direct responses. I'm sure those at Larian are taking the pulse of things and are well aware (or becoming aware) of the various reactions. Press reactions, I'm guessing, tend to be more predictable/less useful (from a constructive critique perspective), given they will generally fall on the side of safe praise to maintain amicable access to the studio in question (since I doubt many studios are keen to offer someone critical of their games any more chances to be critical of it...though there are some studios out there willing to take the licks along with the praise).

Got a buddy that works in the industry, and feedback is certainly taken, though feedback presented in a vitriolic, aggressive, combative, insulting, etc manner are generally not looked at for content of the feedback, but are more often than not looked at in degree of distaste/dissatisfaction overall (and the particularly nasty ones are outright ignored).

I've offered my take in various other threads, and the only real significant feedback I have is to drop the '3' in the title. Certainly call it Baldur's Gate: Something to keep that desired awareness of mind in the consumer base at large, but it avoids (mostly) the feedback critical of calling it '3' when it really has no connection other than being in the same world and region that the Bhaalspawn saga took place in 100 years prior. Of course it may be too late at this point to actually drop the '3', whether due to considerable sums on advertising spent and merch already made, contract stipulations with WotC....or just to prevent studio morale from dropping off a proverbial cliff.

I'm sure they'll be collating all this feedback after such a major presentation....but I'm not holding my breath for them to share their feedback of said feedback. :P

Edit: I will say this though, given the significant number of glitches and bugs Swen encountered during his presentation, he rolled with it and was not remotely concerned about hiding or pretending nothing was going awry. He was happy to show what he had to show, warts and all, with a smile and giggled along with those in attendance. Honestly, that's pretty damned impressive these days for a studio head.

Last edited by ZeshinX; 03/03/20 01:12 PM.
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Originally Posted by ZeshinX

I've offered my take in various other threads, and the only real significant feedback I have is to drop the '3' in the title. Certainly call it Baldur's Gate: Something to keep that desired awareness of mind in the consumer base at large, but it avoids (mostly) the feedback critical of calling it '3'


That might have been a good move beforehand. But now they already have a logo plus title and showed it in trailer and everything. Chickening out now would only embolden the opposition it has a similar effect to negotiating with terrorists. Plus its probably even called that in contracts with WOTC etc.
If they deliver a good product and maybe do some minor changes that show good will and they care its fine without compromising on their original intent. No need to redo the whole game nor could it be done at this point. Just hold fast and the drama will pass.

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Originally Posted by CyberianK


That might have been a good move beforehand. But now they already have a logo plus title and showed it in trailer and everything. Chickening out now would only embolden the opposition it has a similar effect to negotiating with terrorists. Plus its probably even called that in contracts with WOTC etc.
If they deliver a good product and maybe do some minor changes that show good will and they care its fine without compromising on their original intent. No need to redo the whole game nor could it be done at this point. Just hold fast and the drama will pass.


Well it wasn't announced until the logo et al was created, so....wouldn't be able to comment on it until after anyway.

Do I expect it to be changed? No. As you say, the precedent of doing so would be far more harmful to Larian's endeavor than helpful. Doesn't mean I won't say it though, since not saying anything guarantees nothing constructive (now or in the future) ever comes of it. Feedback is not an inherently instant gratification type of conversation, so I say my bit and see what happens down the road (if anything).

I honestly think and feel calling this BG3 was a huge error, but I do intend to buy and play it (unless something radically changes between now and release to convince me otherwise...as happened with Sword Coast Legends, but that was a case of a studio being wildly in over their heads...not the case here, but anything's possible).

Last edited by ZeshinX; 03/03/20 01:50 PM.
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Originally Posted by CyberianK
Originally Posted by ZeshinX

I've offered my take in various other threads, and the only real significant feedback I have is to drop the '3' in the title. Certainly call it Baldur's Gate: Something to keep that desired awareness of mind in the consumer base at large, but it avoids (mostly) the feedback critical of calling it '3'


That might have been a good move beforehand. But now they already have a logo plus title and showed it in trailer and everything. Chickening out now would only embolden the opposition it has a similar effect to negotiating with terrorists. Plus its probably even called that in contracts with WOTC etc.
If they deliver a good product and maybe do some minor changes that show good will and they care its fine without compromising on their original intent. No need to redo the whole game nor could it be done at this point. Just hold fast and the drama will pass.


I don't think there would be any negative consequence to changing the name of the game. Nobody cares for it to be called BG3 - not the DOS fans, and not the fans of Baldur's Gate. All that titling has done is make fans of Baldur's Gate angry. The DOS fans couldn't care less what it's called. So, they should change it.

And your relating to terrorists the people rightfully upset about Larian's false marketing and cash-grab move calling their D&D game "BG3" is deplorable. It also is astonishingly oblivious in that it misses the point that if the name was changed there'd be nothing to embolden Baldur's Gate fans concerning, since they could no longer criticize Larian's D&D DOS formula game for not being like the original PC series Baldur's Gate. I don't know how your logic works, but if the name is changed then the critics of Larian's game being falsely named and disrespectfully co-opting the Baldur's Gate series won't have anything to criticize anymore.

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Originally Posted by Delicieuxz

I don't think there would be any negative consequence to changing the name of the game. Nobody cares for it to be called BG3 - not the DOS fans, and not the fans of Baldur's Gate. All that titling has done is make fans of Baldur's Gate angry. The DOS fans couldn't care less what it's called. So, they should change it.

And your relating to terrorists the people rightfully upset about Larian's false marketing and cash-grab move calling their D&D game "BG3" is deplorable. It also is astonishingly oblivious in that it misses the point that if the name was changed there'd be nothing to embolden Baldur's Gate fans concerning, since they could no longer criticize Larian's D&D DOS formula game for not being like the original PC series Baldur's Gate. I don't know how your logic works, but if the name is changed then the critics of Larian's game being falsely named and disrespectfully co-opting the Baldur's Gate series won't have anything to criticize anymore.


Its not false marketing.

They have a game set in Forgotten Realms Faerun Sword Coast with authentic D&D rules. They are telling a Forgotten Realms Story connected with Baldurs Gate and D&D mechanics sanctioned by WOTC. They wanted to get BG IP for years and were enthusiastic about it. They are one of the defining companies of the genre today that once BG was in.

I am playing P&P for 30 years and everyone in my group loved BG. I am way more excited by a FR story and mechanics than I have ever been for DOS I played those games but D&D is the real deal there's way more emotional grounding and roots and higher stakes.

Putting BG1-2+IWD on a pedestal with noone being allowed to touch them ever again does not help anybody.
Better use that Resurrect scroll than letting it rot.



Last edited by CyberianK; 03/03/20 02:20 PM.
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Originally Posted by 00zim00
Im not to familiar with how Larian usually interacts with their community, but I feel like some clarification on their part may put alot of these discussions to bed (hopefully). The only responses I have seen are from interviews or tweets which either deflect the questions or just make things more confusing by just creating more contentious questions. Not to mention that if their are answers out there they are spread out across many mediums meaning people are discussing bg3 without all the released information in mind.

I know the game is still in early development and alot of the questions may not be answerable at this stage. But it seems, to me at least, that their are some questions Larian can answer. Even if its just a reassurance to alleviate the tensions between community members. I feel like the longer we have to wait for these answers the more divided people will become and in the long run all it is doing is hurting the community and in turn perhaps even BG3 itself.

Thank you for any responses.


--I think Larian is one of the most attentive company I have seen, if you see bunch of the videos from community updates, or game documentary
for divinity games you will understand.

---I think this is the good way to react to the community not saying anything right away to the people till they are in hate or rage mode.
Till they accept the situation, that the game is not how they imagined, based on 1 hour of gameplay in pre-alpha version.
Larian also has time to figure out, how they can address the critiques, make changes and reassure the community.
---I thought, that it will have more similarities to BG2, but we only saw 1 hour of pre-alpha version.
If they would have cloned BG2, than the people would be outraged, because it is just an improved version of a 20 year old game.

--I am also sure it will be a great game, and playing it will be way better, than watching a video on youtube about it.

Last edited by Minsc1122; 03/03/20 03:15 PM.
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Originally Posted by CyberianK
Its not false marketing.


Certainly isn't. I don't think it's false at all. There's plenty of precedent out there for sequels that have absolutely nothing to do with previous entries (even more so than here with BG3), in both games and film, so it's not wrong or false to do so here.

This game sits within the same world in which the Bhaalspawn saga played out, ~100 years after those events, so it's not at all false.

I do find it obvious and vulgar marketing though, and this would be better served by dropping just the '3', since they've as much stated that this is its own thing. Related, but not connected (a cousin rather than a sibling).

Ultimately, Larian'll do what suits them (and WotC) best, and I have little reason to doubt their good intentions at this time (I have little to believe in their good intentions as well, but for now I'm happy to offer them the benefit of the doubt).

I don't think they'll drop the '3' (even if they were able to), but staying silent is also not a good option. So, I offer my personal feedback as regards this and leave it for them to do with as they will. I have every intention of buying and playing this upon final release regardless, short of a Sword Coast Legends-type catastrophe (which I find unlikely).

Last edited by ZeshinX; 03/03/20 03:12 PM.
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Originally Posted by ZeshinX

I don't think they'll drop the '3' (even if they were able to), but staying silent is also not a good option.


Yes I guess the best option would be waiting a while then doing some PR in communicating changes. Those changes could not even be direct changes made in reaction to the drama but just improvements they were doing anyway like finishing an UI that does not look like DOS.

That said I am not sure how hard it would be to look into optionally enabling some realtime combat mode or something. Even if it makes no sense because you can't have fine control maybe its still worth it for for easy combats and to shut up some critics. Would not be the default of course and only to be enabled with some toggle optionally.

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Originally Posted by Raze
Originally Posted by ThreeL
The group that are okay with BG3 now are mostly people who never played BG2.

There are actually quite a few fans of BG 1 and 2 who are enthusiastic about BG3. As the game develops we'll be doing what we can to win over as many of those as possible who currently have concerns.

If this is true, and hope very much that it is, then shouldn't the critics be exactly the people you/Larian tries to engage with? But instead what I am seeing is you all cheerleading the fanboys and denigrating the critics.

I am very passionate in my criticisms precisely because I am a huge fan of the original games as well as the Forgotten Realms setting (of which I own every source book and almost every novel published). As such I have tried to engage in discussions on this forum about what I don't like about this game, not from a place of anger or hate but from a place of profound sadness - sadness at the thought that after waiting 20 years for another Baldur's Gate game, such a game finally gets made but it excludes me from being able to play it. But I can count on one hand the number of people on the other side from me who've been even remotely nice or civil in their responses.

You already have the D:OS fanbase on board. I am decidely NOT a part of that fanbase. But I am very much a part of the fanbases of the original BG games, the Forgotten Realms, and cRPGs. Isn't it precisely people like me you should be trying to win over?

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Originally Posted by 00zim00
Im not to familiar with how Larian usually interacts with their community, but I feel like some clarification on their part may put alot of these discussions to bed (hopefully). The only responses I have seen are from interviews or tweets which either deflect the questions or just make things more confusing by just creating more contentious questions. Not to mention that if their are answers out there they are spread out across many mediums meaning people are discussing bg3 without all the released information in mind.

I know the game is still in early development and alot of the questions may not be answerable at this stage. But it seems, to me at least, that their are some questions Larian can answer. Even if its just a reassurance to alleviate the tensions between community members. I feel like the longer we have to wait for these answers the more divided people will become and in the long run all it is doing is hurting the community and in turn perhaps even BG3 itself.

Thank you for any responses.


i don't think it's earlier in development. if not mistaken it's 2017 they have started on this project. if you ask my opinion, larian now seems very stubborn only thanking everyone who congratulate them while totally ignoring that there are legitimate complaints. the community is pretty much divided now by 50/50. the DOS fans and possibly D&D fans giving larian a free pass whether it looks like Baldur's Gate or not doesn't matter.

they saw Turn-Based and they start chanting "We've won! Yes!". seriously it seems more like personal agenda or like a cult war. i just want the game to look like baldur's gate. right now it's not for me (and i believe many others as well). i hope larian don't continue ignoring the legitimate complaints. it's not going to do them any good.

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I don't think it's fair to categorize DOS and D&D fans as "giving Larian a free pass." I've played a bit of DOS2, but I've played hundreds of hours of Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, and I'm also a massive D&D fan. I support the direction Larian is taking BG3.

It has literally only been a few days since PAX, and I think it's rather presumptuous and rude to demand a response to community feedback so soon, especially with the wide variety of opinions. Larian is bringing the game to early access. That alone should tell you they value community feedback. Will it change the turn-based combat? No. Turn-based is so core to the mechanics that I feel it would be impossible. But things like UI and class balance? Those things are absolutely on the table, I would imagine.


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Why are Larian focusing so much on D&D fans again? I showed BG3 to my best buddy a while ago and he was like meh no video game will ever capture the freedom tabletop offers me. Sure, I like the lore but I'd have become a fan of BG just as easily if it took place on Tolkien's Middle-earth. I only looked up D&D after beating Baldur's Gate.

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