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Hey everyone,
I don't think that there is a bigger fan of the original game than myself. BG2 is undoubtedly one of my favourite games ever - if not the one (together with Fallout 2, Mass Effect 2, Icewind Dale, Deus Ex, Dungeon Keeper and a couple of others) and I have been a dungeon master for AD&D for a couple of years back then - enjoying the sh*t out of it all the time.

Until now, I still remember fighting high-level wizards for hours, killing Firkraag with that smoke cloud trick, exploring the tiny details of all fascinating magical items (viva la Shadow Hunter) and being overwhelmed continuously by Faerun and everything that it has to offer — not mentioning the sheer richness of the adventure itself - discovering cities, nature, caves, Underdark, underwater worlds, stinky sewers or cunning demi-liches.

I understand that similarities between DOS2 and the BG3 gameplay are currently too much and quite obvious, but let's stop for a while and think about this:

- There is not a more suitable developer in the world for the new BG game than Larian. With all due respect towards the other titles like POE2 or Pathfinder - no one currently possesses more talent, budget, passion or experience than them. Compared to this they will still be indie-like computer games.
- The thought of being back in Forgotten Realms is just captivating.
- We will not achieve anything with hate; the community needs to be supportive here and provide constructive criticism rather than spewing disgust. It will eventually help no one.
- There is still so much time before seeing how the real product will look like, let's use the chance and chip in as much as we can to get it done. Everyone acts like this was a final product already.
- Let's not overreact - the presented gameplay is obviously not truly reflective of the whole story, just a showcase of the foundations.
- The cinematic itself was mindblowing, no other CRPG currently in production will have a similar number of people and budget working on a single project.

We are all in this together, let's buckle up, prepare for the ride and help Larian deliver the best possible experience for everyone.

Cheers!

Last edited by theNight; 03/03/20 12:55 PM.
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Yes this is the best thing that could have happened to Baldurs Gate 3. No other company is better suited as you said.

And the alternative would have just been just no successor for BG3 at all.

Even if you don't like BG3 when it comes out it does not destroy the old games those are still the same. Lets make constructive contributions when access starts not wild accusations that every major design decisions was wrong. Those can't be reverted now and were made for reasons and understandably different then what was done 20 years ago. If its a great game in the end with some success then Larian was right. Which is probably their intention to deliver that.

Last edited by CyberianK; 03/03/20 12:55 PM.
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Cheers! I've been ready for this ride since getting introduced to Baldur's Gate back in 2013 with the first Enhanced Edition!

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I totally agree with the OP

Just one minor thing:I would not say that other companies are worse than Larian, just different.
I would be happy if Owlcat or Obsidian make a new DnD game.

- For those who love the original BG1+2, Pathfinder Kingmaker was the true successor. Huge game, relatively close to PnP rules ( I think flanking rule was the biggest difference), rtwp, party of 6 and interesting characters and places. There were only 3 problems: 1.) The game was unplayable buggy at release. But after some patches you could play it without mayor problems. BG1+2 are still full of bugs (regeneration of enemies stacks everytime you load the game, making higher werewolfs immortal when you cannot beat them first try or you have already saved a few times in the area). 2.) PK suffered from the lack of information and some quality of life features. BG1+2 came with a huge manual. For PK I had to do lots of reading in the internet to understand the rules and to create powerful chars. The game is great for PnP fans but new players will have a very hard time in the beginning. 3.) Some enemies had really inflated stats (hallo owlbears) or there were groups of enemies who could stunnlock your whole party if you do not know exactly what to do (wild hunt groups). I do understand that PnP rules are designed for a party of 4 non optimized chars, so the game would be easy for 6 chars made by one player. But I think it would have been better if they used the original PnP stats as normal difficulty and players could change the difficulty settings and make it as hard or easy as they like. The game had more difficulty options than any other game.
Its great that Owlcat works on a new pathfinder game.

- I loved NWN2 and PoE1+2 are also very good. I really hope that Obsidian will make PoE3 some day, even if PoE2 sold not so well.


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Originally Posted by theNight
I understand that similarities between DOS2 and the BG3 gameplay are currently too much and quite obvious, but let's stop for a while and think about this:

- There is not a more suitable developer in the world for the new BG game than Larian. With all due respect towards the other titles like POE2 or Pathfinder - no one currently possesses more talent, budget, passion or experience than them. Compared to this they will still be indie-like computer games.

But Larian aren't making anything that resembles the Baldur's Gate series in any way. So how can it be said that Larian are the most suitable developer to deliver precisely what they have no interest in delivering and are literally not even attempting to deliver?

Having experience and a large budget counts for nothing if it isn't applied towards making a game that is faithful to the Baldur's Gate name. And Larian aren't making such a game, they're putting the DOS formula into a D&D setting involving Baldur's Gate and calling it "Baldur's Gate 3" to tap the name's fame to boost sales. Larian have confirmed many times over and in many interviews that their "BG3" shares no semblance with the Baldur's Gate PC series in any way. And it therefore shouldn't be called "Baldur's Gate 3".

Quote

- There is still so much time before seeing how the real product will look like, let's use the chance and chip in as much as we can to get it done. Everyone acts like this was a final product already.
- Let's not overreact - the presented gameplay is obviously not truly reflective of the whole story, just a showcase of the foundations.

Given that it has been proven countless times that the further development progresses, the more futile feedback and criticisms are, the 'you can't criticize it because it's too early in development' phrase should never be said by anybody. And when it is said, the motivation for saying it should be suspect. It's often said by fans of a game's direction who don't want feedback and criticism to shape the game, and who try to stop feedback they don't like from being spoken to a developer until it's already too late for anything to possibly be changed.

If people don't speak out now, there will be no point in speaking out later. The earlier people speak out, the most chance there is that something will improve.

Quote

We are all in this together, let's buckle up, prepare for the ride and help Larian deliver the best possible experience for everyone.

Larian are clearly not trying to deliver the best-possible experience for everyone, but are trying to exploit the goodwill that the Baldur's Gate series name conjured up to promote their DOS gameplay and get more people buying both "BG3" and their DOS games. Swen stated so in an interview:

"... so, the chance to do that, and to bring what basically is our RPG identity to Baldur's Gate as a franchise was an opportunity too good to resist. And so, what it will do for us... uh, what we think it will do for us is it's going to show a larger segment of people, because I think Baldur's Gate 3 will reach more people than Divinity will have done... it will show a larger segment of the population what our RPGs feel like and hopefully bring them to play our other games also."

Calling their game "Baldur's Gate 3" when it has absolutely nothing in common with the original Baldur's Gate series is only being done as a cash-grab.

Joined: Mar 2020
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Delicieuxz:

Dude, you are completely delusional. Haven't seen a post with so many half-truths and lies in a while.

I am sure that the only reason why Larian is doing this is to "use BG brand and do a quick cash-grab". Gtfo.

Read for example the interview with one of the main writers - you will understand that these people share a similar passion for the old games as we do.

Otherwise looks elsewhere for some computer games, spreading misleading information will only lead to more hate,...

Last edited by theNight; 03/03/20 02:33 PM.
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Tell me about it. He also should think about changing his display name to "Broken Record".

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I as many others compleatly don't understand all this ruckus? The new players prolly never played the old RPGs so I dont understand why these ppl have problem with Baldurs Gate name on this game. And the old players, those that grew up on these games like BGs, Icewinds or Planescape surely will remember that all these games used almost identical icons, menus and playstyles. Yet they were all different. Because back then gamers didn't care for graphics but for stories, character development, unseen twists and philosofical topics.

If you really cry over similarities with DoS game (thats only a plus because those games were the closest thing to the RPGs of old), well than please leave this forums so the developers dont get some wrong ideas.

I support Larian because nowadayz there is no better developer to handle my favourite game genre.

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Originally Posted by theNight


- There is not a more suitable developer in the world for the new BG game than Larian. With all due respect towards the other titles like POE2 or Pathfinder - no one currently possesses more talent, budget, passion or experience than them. Compared to this they will still be indie-like computer games.


Cheers!


I'd disagree on that. Obsidian would've been just as good. Some of its executives even worked on the BG games.

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Originally Posted by CyberianK
Yes this is the best thing that could have happened to Baldurs Gate 3. No other company is better suited as you said.

And the alternative would have just been just no successor for BG3 at all.

Even if you don't like BG3 when it comes out it does not destroy the old games those are still the same. Lets make constructive contributions when access starts not wild accusations that every major design decisions was wrong. Those can't be reverted now and were made for reasons and understandably different then what was done 20 years ago. If its a great game in the end with some success then Larian was right. Which is probably their intention to deliver that.


I was hyped when I learned that Larian was making BG3, it couldnt had been a better developer. I was just hoping we wouldnt get a genetic copy of DOS2. Alot of this can be solved by altering how the game looks. Alot of how you *feel* about a game depends on the looks. I dont expect a Infinity Engine clone but there are so much things that could make it look not-like-DOS.

I guess for people who loved DOS2 this is a dream come true, but for the rest of us, not so much.

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Originally Posted by Torque
there are so much things that could make it look not-like-DOS.

That is part of the development process, that you'll see leading up to and throughout Early Access.

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Those people already got told that they are looking at an 8 month old pre-alpha that is based on the D:OS engine so naturally it looks kind of similar right now. But they still can't stop... it's called IEGTS* I believe.



*Infinity Engine Grognard's Tourette Syndrom

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We covered the subject in the other posts obviously.
"Pros" and "Cons" this BG3 with the "Larian method" will definetly not agree, not now and not anymore in the futur.

Disagreements are fundamentals, we don’t even expect the same things at the base from this game.

From there, any consensus is impossible. Just need to let the time making his work, "Cons" will probably continue to try to put the pressure on Larian in hope they 'll change the game to a direction that suit them. "Pros" need just to relax ( dont play the "drama game" ) and stick up with Larian, enjoying their games and what this studio has proven to be good for.

Just sad to see that kind of behaviour reach to the little Larian world... but when we think about it... it"s absolutely everywhere now, the internet 's just a big bunch of angry peoples & trolls making drama for all and anything.

But, basically, OP have some good words here, it's not this important, time will tell if this game's good or not. And it's not like it going to release soon anyway.

Last edited by The Storyteller; 03/03/20 03:42 PM.
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Originally Posted by Raze
Originally Posted by Torque
there are so much things that could make it look not-like-DOS.

That is part of the development process, that you'll see leading up to and throughout Early Access.


Glad to hear it, thanks! smile

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Originally Posted by Torque

I guess for people who loved DOS2 this is a dream come true, but for the rest of us, not so much.

For me its the opposite DOS was fine but I could have never get that involved as in past D&D games. I even finished Temple of Elemental Evil which was rather bland but I did not finish DOS2 yet (have it planned but played Kingmaker and Dwarf Fortress instead).

For me it makes a difference if I have a party consisting of Fighter, Rogue, Cleric and Wizard and some known gods, locations, a rich history and I can cast my Dimension Door to flee from that Beholder, Drow or other iconic enemies.

They can make D&D games for the next 10+ years.

Joined: May 2019
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Originally Posted by theNight
Hey everyone,
I don't think that there is a bigger fan of the original game than myself. BG2 is undoubtedly one of my favourite games ever - if not the one (together with Fallout 2, Mass Effect 2, Icewind Dale, Deus Ex, Dungeon Keeper and a couple of others) and I have been a dungeon master for AD&D for a couple of years back then - enjoying the sh*t out of it all the time.

Until now, I still remember fighting high-level wizards for hours, killing Firkraag with that smoke cloud trick, exploring the tiny details of all fascinating magical items (viva la Shadow Hunter) and being overwhelmed continuously by Faerun and everything that it has to offer — not mentioning the sheer richness of the adventure itself - discovering cities, nature, caves, Underdark, underwater worlds, stinky sewers or cunning demi-liches.

I understand that similarities between DOS2 and the BG3 gameplay are currently too much and quite obvious, but let's stop for a while and think about this:

- There is not a more suitable developer in the world for the new BG game than Larian. With all due respect towards the other titles like POE2 or Pathfinder - no one currently possesses more talent, budget, passion or experience than them. Compared to this they will still be indie-like computer games.
- The thought of being back in Forgotten Realms is just captivating.
- We will not achieve anything with hate; the community needs to be supportive here and provide constructive criticism rather than spewing disgust. It will eventually help no one.
- There is still so much time before seeing how the real product will look like, let's use the chance and chip in as much as we can to get it done. Everyone acts like this was a final product already.
- Let's not overreact - the presented gameplay is obviously not truly reflective of the whole story, just a showcase of the foundations.
- The cinematic itself was mindblowing, no other CRPG currently in production will have a similar number of people and budget working on a single project.

We are all in this together, let's buckle up, prepare for the ride and help Larian deliver the best possible experience for everyone.
Cheers!

Sorry but I completely reject this and I am not in this together with you. Larian has not yet made a game that I consider to be worthy, so I can and do question whether they are the best for this project. And just like you, I also can and will claim that there is no bigger fan of the original games than me.

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Originally Posted by Boeroer
Those people already got told that they are looking at an 8 month old pre-alpha that is based on the D:OS engine so naturally it looks kind of similar right now. But they still can't stop... it's called IEGTS* I believe.



*Infinity Engine Grognard's Tourette Syndrom

Feel free to attack critics all you want. Let's see how far that takes you in changing any minds.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Boeroer
Those people already got told that they are looking at an 8 month old pre-alpha that is based on the D:OS engine so naturally it looks kind of similar right now. But they still can't stop... it's called IEGTS* I believe.



*Infinity Engine Grognard's Tourette Syndrom

Feel free to attack critics all you want. Let's see how far that takes you in changing any minds.


I wonder if his armchair psychology can draw some conclusion about people who feel the need to interject with every criticism?

This thing doesnt look right, do this instead
"No, why complain??"

Last edited by Torque; 03/03/20 03:52 PM.
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Chill out ?
Not gonna happen. Dreaming of this days for about 20 years so not going to forget that betrayal soon.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 03/03/20 04:13 PM.
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Chill out ?
Not gonna happen. Dreaming of this days for about 20 years so not going to forget that betrayal soon.

Originally Posted by Madscientist
I totally agree with the OP

Just one minor thing:I would not say that other companies are worse than Larian, just different.
I would be happy if Owlcat or Obsidian make a new DnD game.

- For those who love the original BG1+2, Pathfinder Kingmaker was the true successor. Huge game, relatively close to PnP rules ( I think flanking rule was the biggest difference), rtwp, party of 6 and interesting characters and places. There were only 3 problems: 1.) The game was unplayable buggy at release. But after some patches you could play it without mayor problems. BG1+2 are still full of bugs (regeneration of enemies stacks everytime you load the game, making higher werewolfs immortal when you cannot beat them first try or you have already saved a few times in the area). 2.) PK suffered from the lack of information and some quality of life features. BG1+2 came with a huge manual. For PK I had to do lots of reading in the internet to understand the rules and to create powerful chars. The game is great for PnP fans but new players will have a very hard time in the beginning. 3.) Some enemies had really inflated stats (hallo owlbears) or there were groups of enemies who could stunnlock your whole party if you do not know exactly what to do (wild hunt groups). I do understand that PnP rules are designed for a party of 4 non optimized chars, so the game would be easy for 6 chars made by one player. But I think it would have been better if they used the original PnP stats as normal difficulty and players could change the difficulty settings and make it as hard or easy as they like. The game had more difficulty options than any other game.
Its great that Owlcat works on a new pathfinder game.

- I loved NWN2 and PoE1+2 are also very good. I really hope that Obsidian will make PoE3 some day, even if PoE2 sold not so well.



So much this. I think owlcat or obsidian has proven that they are more capable at least in terms of getting the the look and feel, the settings the experience and the atmosphere of a fantasy RPG right. while larian made very impressive games like DOS and DOS2 which are fun and light-hearted, they completely failed in the artistic department. they failed to capture the how the return of baldur's gate supposed to be like. the wait of 20 years of a new baldur's gate turned out to be a DOS2 clone. it's really such a shame. this probably just my opinion.. the whole reason how larian able to get to work on bg3 is quite obvious WoTC is looking for a developer that can do multiplayer co-op, turn-based engine and DOS2 just hit right at home.

Last edited by Archaven; 03/03/20 04:25 PM.
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