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#661098 04/03/20 04:50 AM
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BigNate Offline OP
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Hey Swen, my dad and I used to play BG together. Because of him i've played thousands of hours of amazing stories from many different RPG games. I've never thought id say this, but i'm glad he's no longer around to see this title. And that pains me to say. Please, for long time BG fans do something to this game. The art, scenery, armor, animations, character models, dialog, nerfs, is all off. Nothing resembles BG to me, and ive played hundreds of hours of each game. The least you could do is add RTWP on day 1. People will mod it later to fix all the issues, but thats all moot when the combat isnt BG. This is a turn based system trying to simulate table top. Thats not the what BG was about at all. It didnt try to recreate table top, it tried to create what tabletop restrictions were unable to do. Obsidian surely had a much less budget than this game and they added turn based to their rtwp games to satisfy their playerbase. Please atleast add RTWP so the old fans can see this wasnt a IP cash grab and that you want to satisfy and accommodate the player-base that loved BG.

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This is the subject of many threads already, so it should be merged.

But...

Originally Posted by BigNate
[BG]didnt try to recreate table top, it tried to create what tabletop restrictions were unable to do.


1) I'm sure table top D&D sessions could be run like the floor of the stock market, with everyone clamoring and trying to do everything at the same time, but that doesn't mean it would be good thing. In other words, I don't think table top is unable to do it.

2) If it is something table top cannot do, how does that necessarily make it better?

3) Is it your opinion that they were not trying to recreate a table top experience, or is there a source somewhere that quotes the developers of the game saying as much? Or, alternatively, might they have been trying to capture the table top experience and just thought the better way of doing so (mistakenly or not) was with RTwP?

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Quote
BioWare planned for Baldur’s Gate to be a blend of old and new. “It was kind of this examination of the old Gold Box games in terms of their depth and their adherence to the [D&D] rules,” Oster says, referring to a series of D&D RPGs produced by Strategic Simulations, Inc. in the late ’80s and early ’90s. “But then bringing that forward into an almost real-time-strategy-style interface.”

...

“It became pretty obvious pretty quick that there was no way you were gonna be able to play the depths of D&D in real time without ever pausing the game,” Oster says. “That’s when we came up with the ‘pause and play’ plan.” That addition enabled players to stop in the middle of the game, queue up commands to their party, and then restart the real-time action. Although Baldur’s Gate didn’t invent this “active pause” approach, it did help popularize it. “When you play Fallout to this day with the V.A.T.S. system for the slow-motion targeting, I think you can trace the origins of all that back to the ‘pause and play’ idea,” Greig says. Those mechanics made Baldur’s Gate a technical improvement upon previous RPGs...

...

Baldur’s Gate became the best-selling game in the two weeks following its release, moving 175,000 copies in that time and vindicating BioWare’s pre-release outreach. It topped 500,000 by the end of February and hit the 1.5 million mark by May 2001. “This is a 100 percent standard procedure now for any game,” Greig says. “A key part of the marketing is engaging with the core audience and doing developer diaries, and they’ve got teams of people whose job is just to do this.” Inadvertently, BioWare had helped guide developers in how to sell games as well as how to make them.

...

“The ones that have been successful haven’t tried to remake what we did, because when we made it we weren’t trying to make Baldur’s Gate,” Kristjanson says, adding, “You can reduce that too much to, ‘Oh, this should be authentic D&D with the numbers.’ Well, even D&D isn’t authentic D&D. It’s every group has their house rule, and that house rule is because of the way that your particular collection of awesome weirdos wants to play it.”


https://www.theringer.com/2018/12/21/18150363/baldurs-gate-bioware-1998-video-games

Baldur's Gate was made to be a computer game that brought the D&D experience to computer players.

Last edited by kungfukappa; 04/03/20 06:46 AM.
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Voicing one's opinion (and be it totally weird): ok. As long as one keeps being reasonable: why not?

But this sentence: "[...] but i'm glad he's no longer around to see this title" is incredibly pathetic and low.

This is a game. A game. On a computer. It doesn't matter how many hours you put into it and how fond your childhood memories about it are. Those are merely games. Get your act together!

Seriously - what is wrong with you people?

Say what you like or don't like - but can't you do it in a decent manner? Have you to resort to such low moves to make your points? It's so saddenig to see grown up people throwing a tantrum like this over and over and over again and acting like somebody deeply hurt them intentionally by trying to make a computer game.

Why on earth did you think that your statement would be better with this ugly sentence? I just imagine I said something like that and then some day my mom would read it...


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Originally Posted by BigNate
Hey Swen, my dad and I used to play BG together. Because of him i've played thousands of hours of amazing stories from many different RPG games. I've never thought id say this, but i'm glad he's no longer around to see this title. And that pains me to say. Please, for long time BG fans do something to this game. The art, scenery, armor, animations, character models, dialog, nerfs, is all off. Nothing resembles BG to me, and ive played hundreds of hours of each game. The least you could do is add RTWP on day 1. People will mod it later to fix all the issues, but thats all moot when the combat isnt BG. This is a turn based system trying to simulate table top. Thats not the what BG was about at all. It didnt try to recreate table top, it tried to create what tabletop restrictions were unable to do. Obsidian surely had a much less budget than this game and they added turn based to their rtwp games to satisfy their playerbase. Please atleast add RTWP so the old fans can see this wasnt a IP cash grab and that you want to satisfy and accommodate the player-base that loved BG.


I'm an old bg1 & 2 fan and hate rtwp system. So please speak for yourself.
TB is the best choice for DND on computers.

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Before this turns into yet another TB/RTwP debate, a reminder that we have a pinned topic.


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I'm an old bg1 & 2 fan and hate rtwp system. So please speak for yourself.
TB is the best choice for DND on computers.
[/quote]

That's fine, but that wasnt the vision for the original series, and shouldnt be for this installment either to be completely honest.

Baldurs Gate isnt a pure independent DnD title, and you never had to be a hardcore dnd fan or ever have played table top to enjoy Baldurs Gate.

They morphed e2 to fit rtwp to fulfill their vision even further.

BG had a design philosophy in mind, and this follows none of it other than sharing the setting and it using a DnD ruleset.

*This isnt me saying rtwp is better* , i have my own opinions, but this was to get both systems included in the game and to show my disinterest in the current state of the game. Thats what forums are for, to how youre feeling.

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Originally Posted by vometia
Before this turns into yet another TB/RTwP debate, a reminder that we have a pinned topic.

Please use the TB/RTwP topic to debate TB/RTwP. <_<


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Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by vometia
Before this turns into yet another TB/RTwP debate, a reminder that we have a pinned topic.

Please use the TB/RTwP topic to debate TB/RTwP. <_<



This is not debating, this is wanting inclusion. Kinda sad i have to ask for inclusion in the series i grew up on.

If you want, you can talk to the moderators, posting the same thing over and over again is childish.

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She is a moderator. grin
Good luck Vometia, i'll never have the patience you have.

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Originally Posted by The Storyteller
She is a moderator. grin
Good luck Vometia, i'll never have the patience you have.

biggrin
It gives me something to do on a day that's otherwise a bit of a write-off as I seem to have forgotten to sleep.


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Originally Posted by BigNate
Hey Swen, my dad and I used to play BG together. Because of him i've played thousands of hours of amazing stories from many different RPG games. I've never thought id say this, but i'm glad he's no longer around to see this title. And that pains me to say. Please, for long time BG fans do something to this game. The art, scenery, armor, animations, character models, dialog, nerfs, is all off. Nothing resembles BG to me, and ive played hundreds of hours of each game. The least you could do is add RTWP on day 1. People will mod it later to fix all the issues, but thats all moot when the combat isnt BG. This is a turn based system trying to simulate table top. Thats not the what BG was about at all. It didnt try to recreate table top, it tried to create what tabletop restrictions were unable to do. Obsidian surely had a much less budget than this game and they added turn based to their rtwp games to satisfy their playerbase. Please atleast add RTWP so the old fans can see this wasnt a IP cash grab and that you want to satisfy and accommodate the player-base that loved BG.



Wow, just wow.. The level that these people will stoop to just amazes me. Your glad your father isn’t around anymore to see this? That is just the weirdest post I have ever read. We are talking about a video game here, and this is how you relate to a game? Really sad.

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Originally Posted by BigNate
I've never thought id say this, but i'm glad he's no longer around to see this title.

Dear Jesus man! We've all got criticisms, but this is plain childish!

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Originally Posted by ChavaiotH
Originally Posted by BigNate
Hey Swen, my dad and I used to play BG together. Because of him i've played thousands of hours of amazing stories from many different RPG games. I've never thought id say this, but i'm glad he's no longer around to see this title. And that pains me to say. Please, for long time BG fans do something to this game. The art, scenery, armor, animations, character models, dialog, nerfs, is all off. Nothing resembles BG to me, and ive played hundreds of hours of each game. The least you could do is add RTWP on day 1. People will mod it later to fix all the issues, but thats all moot when the combat isnt BG. This is a turn based system trying to simulate table top. Thats not the what BG was about at all. It didnt try to recreate table top, it tried to create what tabletop restrictions were unable to do. Obsidian surely had a much less budget than this game and they added turn based to their rtwp games to satisfy their playerbase. Please atleast add RTWP so the old fans can see this wasnt a IP cash grab and that you want to satisfy and accommodate the player-base that loved BG.


I'm an old bg1 & 2 fan and hate rtwp system. So please speak for yourself.
TB is the best choice for DND on computers.


I really like this kind of comments.
How the hell can you be a fan of something you hate ?

I guess you're one more fan of D&D, which is NOT the same as the video game Baldur's Gate.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 04/03/20 03:36 PM.
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
His thoughs are none of your business.


His thoughts aren't being judged, his post is being criticized. It is a perfectly fair and expected use of the forums.


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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
How the hell can you be a fan of something you hate ?

Easy; the rest of the game made up for that. There are fans of D:OS that generally don't care for turn based combat, as well.
I hate twitch based button mashing, where you have to repeat sequences over and over to memorise the exact timing, but other than the end level, Psychonauts was a great game.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by ChavaiotH
Originally Posted by BigNate
Hey Swen, my dad and I used to play BG together. Because of him i've played thousands of hours of amazing stories from many different RPG games. I've never thought id say this, but i'm glad he's no longer around to see this title. And that pains me to say. Please, for long time BG fans do something to this game. The art, scenery, armor, animations, character models, dialog, nerfs, is all off. Nothing resembles BG to me, and ive played hundreds of hours of each game. The least you could do is add RTWP on day 1. People will mod it later to fix all the issues, but thats all moot when the combat isnt BG. This is a turn based system trying to simulate table top. Thats not the what BG was about at all. It didnt try to recreate table top, it tried to create what tabletop restrictions were unable to do. Obsidian surely had a much less budget than this game and they added turn based to their rtwp games to satisfy their playerbase. Please atleast add RTWP so the old fans can see this wasnt a IP cash grab and that you want to satisfy and accommodate the player-base that loved BG.


I'm an old bg1 & 2 fan and hate rtwp system. So please speak for yourself.
TB is the best choice for DND on computers.


I really like this kind of comments.
How the hell can you be a fan of something you hate ?

I guess you're one more fan of D&D, which is NOT the same as the video game Baldur's Gate.

Yeah I have to say, as someone who is rather on the fence about RTwP, I love BG2 to absolute bits.
It’s good though, I’ve learned through this how passionate people are about RTwP and it’s importance to BG for them, even if I don’t feel the same way.

Last edited by Riandor; 06/03/20 03:41 PM.

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