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Obi Wan Kenobi said, "Who's the greater fool, the fool or the fool who follows him."

Someone made what is at the least an unsubstantiated and I suspect, false, claim that TB games outsell RTwP games. Arguing against nonsense is itself a form of nonsense. Baseball sells more tickets than football, but only because there are so many more games. The sales show nothing of which is better or worse. Similarly, there seem to be way more RTwP RPGs the past twenty years than TB RPGs, so comparing sales doesn't reflect anything. It might be said that there is a reason why there have been so many more RTwP RPGs - namely, people have liked them better. That may or may not have been the case (we can only play what we're given), bur Larian's success with DOS2 shows that things just might be changing (and that PC Gamer poll is telling too)

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Originally Posted by kanisatha

No. RT and RTwP are much closer to each other than either is to TB. And in parallel, RT fans and RTwP fans overlap each other significantly more than either overlaps with TB fans.

This is a generalization and one that shouldn't be made as they play entirely different. That's like saying someone who plays Rainbow Six Siege will prefer something like StarCraft over DOS or Fallout since one is real time (despite playing completely different) and one is turn-based.

I'm primarily a FPP/TPP gamer and I'd be more in the mainstream crowd for games like Fallout New Vegas or Witcher 3. I also like RTS games like StarCraft and Halo Wars. Yet I very much dislike RTwP games to the point where it hinders my enjoyment of a game (even when I play it for other reasons like the story or lore).

So I'm one of your RT gamers, but I would take a turn-based game over a RTwP any day of the week since it's something I can still enjoy despite not being my main preference.

I don't think this is the thread for this discussion though as vometia said.

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Can we PLEASE have one thread that isn't about TB vs RTwP. Its not going to change at this point so what is the point of them?

Time to move on and talk about other stuff.

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Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
Can we PLEASE have one thread that isn't about TB vs RTwP. Its not going to change at this point so what is the point of them?

Time to move on and talk about other stuff.

Quite; and the same people and the same arguments right after I'd asked the same thing. Next ones get deleted.


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Mature rating and dark theme in a game derived from another game known for being whimsical and "un-medieval/gothic" but rather renaissance looking. Skeptical. We will see.

Last edited by knightjft; 10/03/20 06:23 AM. Reason: grammatical error
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Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
Can we PLEASE have one thread that isn't about TB vs RTwP. Its not going to change at this point so what is the point of them?

Time to move on and talk about other stuff.

Agreed why keep asking for it when it is not going to happen move on to something else problem solved


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Please give us free camera movement where we can zoom in close and look around (tilt)!

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Since Intellect Devourer are GS 2 and in the fight there are 3 or 4 of them while 2 PC, someone know if they are nerfed? They should be Resistent to non magical damage, but the boot seems to damege them normally.
Also they have two attack per round: Claw and Intellect Devour, the second never used in the presentation

This and the Mage hand: there are actual D&D Rule in this D&D game?

Last edited by Xary; 10/03/20 03:59 PM.
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Originally Posted by DurneFea
Please give us free camera movement where we can zoom in close and look around (tilt)!



i don't see why not as DOS2 is possible

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Originally Posted by Xary
Since Intellect Devourer are GS 2 and in the fight there are 3 or 4 of them while 2 PC, someone know if they are nerfed? They should be Resistent to non magical damage, but the boot seems to damege them normally.
Also they have two attack per round: Claw and Intellect Devour, the second never used in the presentation

This and the Mage hand: there are actual D&D Rule in this D&D game?


They're nerfed,I thought the same when I first saw it. I guess a lot of monster will be tweaked to fit the narrative (?) but they coul call them,weakened or something.

Mage hand is also tweaked to use the new mechanics such as shove.

''there are actual D&D Rule in this D&D game?'' it is based on 5e but there's a few changes for some mechanics such as having advantage just for elevation. They have said all of this is a ''test'' and can change based on feedback.

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Originally Posted by Archaven
Originally Posted by DurneFea
Please give us free camera movement where we can zoom in close and look around (tilt)!



i don't see why not as DOS2 is possible


DOS:2 you need a MOD improved camera, which I never got to work. Without the mod all you can do is zoom in right at your character, but then you dont see anything else and cant play in that view.

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The Camera so far has been shown to be either zoomed in in 3rd person over the shoulder or zoomed out in a more isometric mode.

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Originally Posted by Adgaroth
Originally Posted by Xary
Since Intellect Devourer are GS 2 and in the fight there are 3 or 4 of them while 2 PC, someone know if they are nerfed? They should be Resistent to non magical damage, but the boot seems to damege them normally.
Also they have two attack per round: Claw and Intellect Devour, the second never used in the presentation

This and the Mage hand: there are actual D&D Rule in this D&D game?


They're nerfed,I thought the same when I first saw it. I guess a lot of monster will be tweaked to fit the narrative (?) but they coul call them,weakened or something.

Mage hand is also tweaked to use the new mechanics such as shove.

''there are actual D&D Rule in this D&D game?'' it is based on 5e but there's a few changes for some mechanics such as having advantage just for elevation. They have said all of this is a ''test'' and can change based on feedback.

5ed D&D isn't rule heavy as 3.5 (with rule for almost everything and many, many number) or as AD&D2ed (with different THAC0, different progression for the Saves, different progression for the class, etc) but has some accepted rule and the game is already ignoring the most basic, like rule for spell (mage hand not only broked for shove but for the casting time and not a concentration spell... it's almost another spell, can we call it Bigby's Little Hand?), monster and potion, using optional rule for initiative...
It seems strange that 20 years ago, a game that ignored the turn based sistem of D&D could implement almost every other rule in the correct way, and now, with more powerfull PC they could implement the Turn but need to tweak or ignore all the other rule

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Well my question is will we be able to pick a deity for our none divine characters that really is my only question for BG3


Cthulhu: FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS I LAY DORMANT, WHO HAS DISTURBED MY- Oh its you...
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Originally Posted by Xary
Originally Posted by Adgaroth
Originally Posted by Xary
Since Intellect Devourer are GS 2 and in the fight there are 3 or 4 of them while 2 PC, someone know if they are nerfed? They should be Resistent to non magical damage, but the boot seems to damege them normally.
Also they have two attack per round: Claw and Intellect Devour, the second never used in the presentation

This and the Mage hand: there are actual D&D Rule in this D&D game?


They're nerfed,I thought the same when I first saw it. I guess a lot of monster will be tweaked to fit the narrative (?) but they coul call them,weakened or something.

Mage hand is also tweaked to use the new mechanics such as shove.

''there are actual D&D Rule in this D&D game?'' it is based on 5e but there's a few changes for some mechanics such as having advantage just for elevation. They have said all of this is a ''test'' and can change based on feedback.

5ed D&D isn't rule heavy as 3.5 (with rule for almost everything and many, many number) or as AD&D2ed (with different THAC0, different progression for the Saves, different progression for the class, etc) but has some accepted rule and the game is already ignoring the most basic, like rule for spell (mage hand not only broked for shove but for the casting time and not a concentration spell... it's almost another spell, can we call it Bigby's Little Hand?), monster and potion, using optional rule for initiative...
It seems strange that 20 years ago, a game that ignored the turn based sistem of D&D could implement almost every other rule in the correct way, and now, with more powerfull PC they could implement the Turn but need to tweak or ignore all the other rule


What's wrong with using an official initiative variant? And bonus action for potions is a very popular homebrew rule in the pnp, I think it's even suggested in the rule books as I remember reading about it.

And the BG games didn't follow AD&D 2e rules very closely, it used a bastard version of 2e and 3e with tweaked rules everywhere. That's why BG2 has 3e classes in it. I find it funny you call out Larian for monsters, when BioWare was just as inventive with them...

As for mage hand, it's pre-alpha, it was bugged. Swen mentioned it. It wasn't supposed to behave like a character and it wasn't supposed to have shove but throw (which it can do for things weighting less than 10lb by the rules) but the throw didn't work in the build he had.

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Originally Posted by azarhal

What's wrong with using an official initiative variant? And bonus action for potions is a very popular homebrew rule in the pnp, I think it's even suggested in the rule books as I remember reading about it.

And the BG games didn't follow AD&D 2e rules very closely, it used a bastard version of 2e and 3e with tweaked rules everywhere. That's why BG2 has 3e classes in it. I find it funny you call out Larian for monsters, when BioWare was just as inventive with them...

As for mage hand, it's pre-alpha, it was bugged. Swen mentioned it. It wasn't supposed to behave like a character and it wasn't supposed to have shove but throw (which it can do for things weighting less than 10lb by the rules) but the throw didn't work in the build he had.

In five year and many group, here in italy, never seen the homerule about potion used in game. The initiative variant, nothing wrong per se, only that with all the other change is a little annoying. BG2 come after 3.0, so the mix, BG1 (not EE) doesn't have classes or kit aother than the standard, also doesn't remember monster in BG1 with stat changed, exept maybe werewolf due to lack of silver weapon (and only in the expansion)

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Originally Posted by Xary
Originally Posted by azarhal

What's wrong with using an official initiative variant? And bonus action for potions is a very popular homebrew rule in the pnp, I think it's even suggested in the rule books as I remember reading about it.

And the BG games didn't follow AD&D 2e rules very closely, it used a bastard version of 2e and 3e with tweaked rules everywhere. That's why BG2 has 3e classes in it. I find it funny you call out Larian for monsters, when BioWare was just as inventive with them...

As for mage hand, it's pre-alpha, it was bugged. Swen mentioned it. It wasn't supposed to behave like a character and it wasn't supposed to have shove but throw (which it can do for things weighting less than 10lb by the rules) but the throw didn't work in the build he had.

In five year and many group, here in italy, never seen the homerule about potion used in game. The initiative variant, nothing wrong per se, only that with all the other change is a little annoying. BG2 come after 3.0, so the mix, BG1 (not EE) doesn't have classes or kit aother than the standard, also doesn't remember monster in BG1 with stat changed, exept maybe werewolf due to lack of silver weapon (and only in the expansion)


Sarevok stats and resistances makes no sense for a level 15 living human.
The revenants in the games have 3 attacks per round, instead of 1 (going by the AD&D 2e FR monster manual I'm looking at) with a bunch of other little changes, like more HP despite being level 2, better THACO, etc.


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Which Reddit.

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Originally Posted by RenFangs
Which Reddit.


https://twitter.com/LarAtLarian/with_replies

Last edited by Adgaroth; 11/03/20 05:31 PM.
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@Xary : I don't know 5e well, but yes, it did seem that characters were able to do too much for what is a short turn; if it was strictly realistic according to 5e, it would be an even slower experience than that demonstrated, which was slow enough.

Given how long it took to demo not very much progress, I would assume that the 100 hour game is not supposed to level you very far. Perhaps as with BG1 the end-game will be level 5-7 or something. That would certainly be more in line with D&D TT, but might seem to be a bit underwhelming to modern video game players.

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