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Emrikol Offline OP
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In anticipation of the upcoming dev chat next week, what should change from DOS2 to BG3? I'm not talking about obvious things that won't be there (e.g. the skills), or obvious things that will be (e.g D&D races), nor especially anything like "make it resemble BG2." Just things that were in DOS2 that we can feasibly see being carried over into BG3. Something like:

1) Tone down the loot bonanza
2) Add a fog of war
3) Either eliminate abusive mechanics (e.g teleporting mobs into lava or deathfog) or code the AI to use them too
4) Fix the long load times

I could go on, but that's enough for now.

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Agree with your points. Also:

* No soft or hard level locked areas. If something is difficult, you should be able to use all the tools at your disposal: wands, scrolls, potions, to surmount it even if it's still slanted against you. Also it is quite nice having a dragon cave in an area surrounded by orcs and other stuff. You may poke in, see it, and decide to leave it for later, this makes the game feel a bit more 'open world', in the sense that you may want to return rather than the D:OS2 formula of moving through an area mopping up and never going back to it.

* More open world mechanics, quests that bring you back to previous areas, etc.

* Random encounters (a big deal in tabletop too)

* More than 4 party members (think it's confirmed there will be more, but just want to throw this out there just in case)

What should stay from D:OS2 and/or be improved:

* Modding tools, and the DM mode (except with toggling on/off tadpole mechanics to give a much more pure tabletop DM mode or something that abides to the core ruleset).

That's all I've got for now.



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Modding tools and GM/DM mode are perhaps the most important things.

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EDIT : Watch here : http://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=661738#Post661738

My post does not meet the expectations of OP.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 05/03/20 08:16 PM.

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Emrikol Offline OP
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Wasn't intending for the thread to becomes a "what do you want BG3 to be like" thread. More limited in scope. I'll repeat from the initial post

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Just things that were in DOS2 that we can feasibly see being carried over into BG3

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Originally Posted by Emrikol
Wasn't intending for the thread to becomes a "what do you want BG3 to be like" thread. More limited in scope. I'll repeat from the initial post

Quote
Just things that were in DOS2 that we can feasibly see being carried over into BG3


Ok you know what, I'll delete and create another topic.
I was nearly sure you'll come again to say it's not what you would read wink


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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
- A unique story arround CHARNAME
For players to imagine they are playing THEIR story, not the story of everyone (I really fear it's gonna be increased while you can choose origins character and play nearly the exact same game).

- Unique story of companion
Unique doesn't mean different background. It means different objectives, differents problems... In BG3 it looks all turns around the Illithid thing in the eye... In DoS all turns arround the source and all companions begin at Fort Joy for the same reasons...
Be creative, you can imagine many more reasons why people could be interrested in joining the team even if they aren't infected (idk, vengeance, free his sister, fight against the evil,...)

- Many more companions
Because it's role play. If you can choose in a list of 6 characters during the whole adventure, you nearly have no choices (and can't play again a total different game)

- Dice roll at character creation

Because I like it, even if nearly everyone is cheating on it smile

- More maps, even if they are smaller they are in DoS.
In modern "half open world", You don't fell your travelling. You just explore a whole map, then another, then another.
World maps like BG (but I think I can't say the name here), with lots of "little" maps, with time during the travel, the link between them (in/out from noth, east, south, west) give the impression of a true journey arround a "real" world. See also the next point.

- Free exploration
Non linear adventure. Being able to go "nearly" where you want when you want give the impression you create YOUR story the way you choose.

- Fog of war
Because you never know what's waiting for u... Easy encounter or true challenge ?

- Variety of spells / class
Don't know what you take and you forget from D&D but having many spells that are nearly all different is important for the player to choose they way they'll play.
You don't use a fireball the same way you use a lightning. Same for buff spells and combinations.

- Real time with pause option
Because PC gamer show many many players love it.


- More character in the team.
5 is the minimum. 6 is the good number to avoid the common team Tank+Healer+DPS (incl. thief). Your team is what you want. With only 4 characters you don't because you always need this kind of common team.

- Night and day cycle + Meteo
With differents meetings/encounters, different atmosphere.

- Less useless variations of items.
(minor, medium, normal, huge, giant potions... level 20 sword, then level 21 sword,... this is boring. I supposed this is in D&D rules but... you don't feel you are rewarded in actual games, because you'll ever change stuff 1 hour later... + see the under point)

- More simple items stats
(+2 int, +1 ... + 1... + 3... + 10% ... => boring. You have to simply understand why you would or not change what you wear. It's not usefull to have difficult choices for a sword you'll change 1 hour later... + see the above point).

- More complex character creation.
More races, more classes or subclasses... Don't know if it's "obvious" or not.....

- More epic and interresant side quest.

Simple quest (my brother dissapear while we were... or a groupe of Tasloi steal my sword...), but also long and epic quests (Nalia's castle, temple of Amaunator,...) + events (Druids fighting hunter,...) I didn't name it...

Better music and sounds / "atmosphere dialogs".
No one already remember DoS and DoS2 music instead of those I can named music.
Don't know how to talk about the sentences said by PC/NPC. Everyone remeber then also.

More life in town or inn.
This is something players like in BG.

This is just a part of a list I create with players on another forum.
It's sometimes hard to explain exactly what it meant because it's sometimes about feelings we'd like to find in this BG3 we won't in DoS.


This is an excellent summation about what a D&D game should be, especially after waiting years for BG3. While DOS 1&2 were great games in their own right, I think Larian needs to separate themselves from those games a bit more. My main concern at this point is the fact that they are including "origin characters" with a pre-defined backstory. That's DOS2, not BG3. BG games are about rolling what ever race/class combination you want to play, and have the world react to you, based on what you do, how you accomplish it, and to some extent what your race & class is.

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Emrikol Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Ok you know what, I'll delete and create another topic.
I was nearly sure you'll come again to say it's not what you would read wink


Like I said, limited in scope. To say "what was not in DOS2 that you would like to see in BG3" is fine, but can open an enormous number of subjects (and is being done in many other threads). To keep it to "what was in DOS2 that should or should not be in BG3" is much more restrained and on point.

btw, I did read your reply in it's entirety

Last edited by Emrikol; 05/03/20 08:16 PM.
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Originally Posted by Rainwalker
[
My main concern at this point is the fact that they are including "origin characters" with a pre-defined backstory. That's DOS2, not BG3. BG games are about rolling what ever race/class combination you want to play, and have the world react to you, based on what you do, how you accomplish it, and to some extent what your race & class is.

This is a rather weird complaint, given that:
- Origin stories are entirely optional and something that adds without subtracting anything in process.
- Nothing about these "origin stories" was ruleset-specific in principle. You could apply a similar concept to pretty much any RPG.

On a side note I played DOS 2 both with and without one of these origin story character.
It doesn't make as much as a difference as some seem to think it does.
It's just having a couple of lore-specific additional interactions here and there across the entire campaign.

I'm not even saying people should LIKE origin stories, just pointing that their existence is essentially irrelevant and there should be far more meaningful things to concern about.

Last edited by Tuco; 05/03/20 09:16 PM.

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Here's another..

Lucky Charm. Please nothing like this in BG3

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Originally Posted by Emrikol
Here's another..

Lucky Charm. Please nothing like this in BG3

Ideally, i'd be all for "no random findings" in general. Lucky charm or not.
Let the loot in the game be hand-placed. Stop. It solves two hundreds problems at the modest price of having a handful of employees dedicated to manually filling these loot tables manually.

Last edited by Tuco; 05/03/20 09:57 PM.

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I could live without it, but I would really like the option to customize the appearance of your companions and your own origin character. It was really nice feature in DOS 2 that I didn't see anywhere else.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
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@rainwalker:

- no stat rolling. Players just re roll until they like the result.
Point buy system is better for balance.
Maybe add some pre generated chars for those new to DnD ( not sure if you could customize the origin chars when you start the game. I hope you can, even if their look and starting class are fixed)

- regarding spell, items and character creation: just follow the DnD 5E rules

- I do not think there will be rtwp.
If you chose action, bonus action, reaction and positioning for a full party, you pause every second anyway.
In the IE games you could only attack, cast a spell, use an item or move.
In BG3 even martial chars have lots of options for actions, such as throwing enemies around.


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In DOS2, whenever you walk somewhere, every character does a very nice job in avoiding areas with bad environmental effects like fire or poison (except for undead characters), really everything just like it should be. Sometimes they wait unless I explicitly command them to walk through fire inividually. So characters usually do a good job at staying alive.
BUT
what happened way more often than it should and tought me to always unconnect all characters in fights: When a great fight takes place, and than finally we defeat the enemy - just then, right after a fight, my guys are so often in such a hurry to meet somewhere, ignoring all the toxic and burning environments that are still going on for a certain time after a fight, running straight through it like these idiots can't watit to finally kill semselves, now that the fight is over.
I laughed well. And cursed, when resurrection scrolls were more rare in my inventorty in earlier stages of the game.

I really hope someone knows what I'm talking about :D

I'd like to see that funky little immersionkiller gone in BG3.
Just make everyone stand still after a fight, until the environmental effects are gone or a command to move is given, that would be nice.

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Haha, yes... and people like this sourcerer dude who just LOVES to run home through necrofire after my toons saved his sorry life should get some IQ boost, too...

Same for that "tactical genius" who creates an ice surface for no particular reason, just to slip on it. "If this is all we have, then we're done for."


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While I like interactions with the environment in general, I think D:OS2 went way too far.
In every fight the whole area gets filled with fire, poison or electricity.
In D:OS1 I tried to avoid this by focussing on abilities that hit a character, not the environment.
But in D:OS2 most abilities also change the environment around the target.

This is one reason why I quit D:OS2: After the first round (each char acted once) sometimes it was impossible to walk around.
I think Dragon Age Origins was a good middle ground: There were some spell combos (oil+fire, freeze+shatter, . . .) but it did not fill the whole map with crazy effects.


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While the widespread and near constant environmental effects never bothered me while playing DOS2 (probably because it was so novel), I can definitely see your point. Maybe less common and harder to achieve, but more deadly when it happens.

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>Teleporting people into lava is bad

thats the exact sort of thing that a DM would give you bonus XP for in a DnD game.
Creative solutions are good, not bad.
RPGs are already about Hack n slash a lot, solving encounters in other ways is great

THe problem with OS2 and enviroment effects is Necrofire.. or Necro anything.
And Necrofire itself wouldnt even be bad, if they hadnt decided that ALL voidwoken (i.e. the most common enemy type in the game) bleeds cursed blood.
that way in 50% of all fights any surfaces will get turned into permanent bullshit puddles.

I like OS2 but OS1 did that better.
Since this mechanic doesnt exist in DnD i guess were save from it here

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Teleporting into lava is fine ... so long as they know to do it to you too.

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Originally Posted by Emrikol
Teleporting into lava is fine ... so long as they know to do it to you too.


But... then my super awesome character will die in the lava and be unrecoverable!!!111

In a typical D&D game where enemies can do things like that to you as well, it's devolves into a bunch of bullshit non-combat combat and people soon say to the DM that this type of gameplay isn't fun (or the DM figures it out without player input). In the game format it's permanent game over for one of the characters, which is why it shouldn't really be in the game at all - either you make the enemies copy your tactics and make the game unplayable or you make the enemies beyond dumb and thus the combat is a pointless series of buttons you need to press to win. If I wanted to not have to bother with combat myself I'd read a book or watch a movie... or maybe played a different sort of game.

Sorry, I didn't want this to seem like an attack at you, I just wanted to make sure people knew I was talking about teleport into lava BS.

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