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Dark_Ansem #663611 13/03/20 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
There is a level 20 cap but there are bonuses you get per every set of XP beyond that. Hope Larian takes it into account.


What are you talking about? Level cap is 10.

MasterServo #663612 13/03/20 09:42 AM
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level cap of 10 is great.
a game the lenght of divinity os2 set entierly in the first half of the leveling expirience is exactly what i had wanted.
high level DnD gets completley nonsensical and basically turns into rocket tag with gods
1-10 is the perfect adventure expirience

On people who are complaining about the level cap:
The mask starts slipping.

Since Sven has basically dispelled all the lies by doom and gloom posters, they now have to start retroactiveley hating on BG1.

also theres concrete proof that a lot of this shit is just RPG codex making sock puppet accounts

Last edited by Sordak; 13/03/20 09:44 AM.
MasterServo #663618 13/03/20 10:23 AM
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Yes something like Fighter, barbarians or Paladins are usually stronger on lvl 1 but I don't think Wizard will be useless.
At lvl 1 something like a sleep spell or color spray is very powerful (no save in 5e for both) against something like a horde of goblins etc
The main point is that wizards get emptied pretty fast so got no endurance but you can always rest more often if the game does not force 5 encounters on you which goes against freedom of decision making anyway

With the systems BG3 is using and especially the high focus on verticality and overpowered bonus actions this makes some Wizards spells better than usual.

Lvl 1 Grease, Thunderwave, Find Familiar I can see being stronger than normal 5e
Lvl 2 Web is probably stronger, Ray of Enfeeblement is good against strong melees (half damage no save first turn) if you get easy advantage through more verticality

Fire Bolt Cantrip (as well as Mage Hand) will make you be able to easily interact with all that environment stuff that your overzealous level designers probably put everywhere to interact. High ground for advantage to hit well and it has nice 120 feet range.
When I GM DnD theres no barrels of explosive oil everywhere (and similar) that a wizard could easily interact with but I can assure you the density of that will be higher in this game.

At lvl 5 theres no problem anymore anyway because strong spells like Haste, Fireball and Hypnotic Pattern become available.

So its really only the first 4 levels that Wizard would have a problem and its not really the case because even then there are strong spells as explained above. Exact strength will depend on the precise implementation of all spells ofc and how often the game forces you to not be able to rest to get your spells back.

Last edited by CyberianK; 13/03/20 10:27 AM.
Dark_Ansem #663625 13/03/20 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Ignatius
Actually, I don't believe the level cap will be ten, I think it'll be twenty like the core rules. Maybe they're presently working on all the content for levels 1-10, for early access you know. Given the purported length of the game, and the relatively fast leveling in 5e, ten levels doesn't make much sense. Unless, of course, they plan to use milestone leveling, though one notices XP being handed out in the demo for combat.

Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
There is a level 20 cap but there are bonuses you get per every set of XP beyond that. Hope Larian takes it into account.

Sorry pals but the cap level is ten


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MasterServo #663646 13/03/20 01:18 PM
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Damn this sucks!
I knew something was up since Mindflayers are CR 8 enemies. But still, 5e was designed for players to reach max level sooner (I have one lvl 20 character on Pnp), so this might mean they'll mess with the progression system.
During the reveal I kinda had the feeling that the exp rewards were very small. I mean a CR 1/2 enemy grants you 100 xp, and those brain things are definitely stronger than goblins.

Last edited by Danielbda; 13/03/20 01:23 PM.
Danielbda #663654 13/03/20 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Danielbda
Damn this sucks!
I knew something was up since Mindflayers are CR 8 enemies. But still, 5e was designed for players to reach max level sooner (I have one lvl 20 character on Pnp), so this might mean they'll mess with the progression system.
During the reveal I kinda had the feeling that the exp rewards were very small. I mean a CR 1/2 enemy grants you 100 xp, and those brain things are definitely stronger than goblins.

Well I think there are going to do the same thing as BG1 and BG2 with save importing otherwise it would not make much sense


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Originally Posted by TheInfinitySock

Well I think there are going to do the same thing as BG1 and BG2 with save importing otherwise it would not make much sense

It's rather disappointing to have to wait several years to finish leveling a character, but if it were the case that this story were to be broken into two games both the length of DOS2 with a shared leveling system, then that would relieve some of the disappointment.

For me a large part of RPGs is that sense of progression, building a character, etc. So I sincerely hope there's something beyond the 1-10 levels to add that sense of progression. I'm not too sure I'll be satisfied with the system as I imagine it being with the information we have.

I think with an adventure as long as this is supposed to be, I'll be bored with a lack of variety or progression of my PC.


MasterServo #663686 13/03/20 04:07 PM
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Also for it to be done properly. It would have to be an expansion. If they are going to give us DM mode and a toolset to build upon. It would have to incorporate all the levels. If it is split up into two different games it would not work especially if they updated their engine to 5.0 for part 2.

If they do not do expansions as it has been suggested. To make this a complete game they would have to give us a 20 level cap game, DM mode and a toolset. Otherwise, it is just a demo game that becomes abandonware. (why do I feel like the fence is getting barbed wire and I will have to jump off).

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Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
Also for it to be done properly. It would have to be an expansion. If they are going to give us DM mode and a toolset to build upon. It would have to incorporate all the levels. If it is split up into two different games it would not work especially if they updated their engine to 5.0 for part 2.

If they do not do expansions as it has been suggested. To make this a complete game they would have to give us a 20 level cap game, DM mode and a toolset. Otherwise, it is just a demo game that becomes abandonware. (why do I feel like the fence is getting barbed wire and I will have to jump off).


I am always astounded by the level of hyperbole used when someone wants to make an argument for something they want. It is really odd.

A level cap of 10 can work fine with one game, a game with a sequel, GM mode or expansion(s).
And no, it doesn't mean it would be a demo game that would just be "a demo game that becomes abandonware".
(I thought I also wanted to make some arguments about how and why, but it seems kind of pointless)

Cirolle #663688 13/03/20 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Cirolle
Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
Also for it to be done properly. It would have to be an expansion. If they are going to give us DM mode and a toolset to build upon. It would have to incorporate all the levels. If it is split up into two different games it would not work especially if they updated their engine to 5.0 for part 2.

If they do not do expansions as it has been suggested. To make this a complete game they would have to give us a 20 level cap game, DM mode and a toolset. Otherwise, it is just a demo game that becomes abandonware. (why do I feel like the fence is getting barbed wire and I will have to jump off).


I am always astounded by the level of hyperbole used when someone wants to make an argument for something they want. It is really odd.

A level cap of 10 can work fine with one game, a game with a sequel, GM mode or expansion(s).
And no, it doesn't mean it would be a demo game that would just be "a demo game that becomes abandonware".
(I thought I also wanted to make some arguments about how and why, but it seems kind of pointless)


The point is that it will take another game to have the full experience. Taking years to max out your character is not something that I look forward to.
All the recent CRPGS, including the Larian ones, allow for max level way before endgame.

Cirolle #663691 13/03/20 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Cirolle
Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
Also for it to be done properly. It would have to be an expansion. If they are going to give us DM mode and a toolset to build upon. It would have to incorporate all the levels. If it is split up into two different games it would not work especially if they updated their engine to 5.0 for part 2.

If they do not do expansions as it has been suggested. To make this a complete game they would have to give us a 20 level cap game, DM mode and a toolset. Otherwise, it is just a demo game that becomes abandonware. (why do I feel like the fence is getting barbed wire and I will have to jump off).


I am always astounded by the level of hyperbole used when someone wants to make an argument for something they want. It is really odd.

A level cap of 10 can work fine with one game, a game with a sequel, GM mode or expansion(s).
And no, it doesn't mean it would be a demo game that would just be "a demo game that becomes abandonware".
(I thought I also wanted to make some arguments about how and why, but it seems kind of pointless)


I am astounded by people who always see the need to animadvert on someone's opinion about what they think about the game. But that seems to be the norm on these forums.

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Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
I am astounded by people who always see the need to animadvert on someone's opinion about what they think about the game. But that seems to be the norm on these forums.

It seems to be a recent arrival and one I would like to see depart just as quickly. So as a note to everyone, let's not do that.


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Danielbda #663693 13/03/20 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by Cirolle
Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
Also for it to be done properly. It would have to be an expansion. If they are going to give us DM mode and a toolset to build upon. It would have to incorporate all the levels. If it is split up into two different games it would not work especially if they updated their engine to 5.0 for part 2.

If they do not do expansions as it has been suggested. To make this a complete game they would have to give us a 20 level cap game, DM mode and a toolset. Otherwise, it is just a demo game that becomes abandonware. (why do I feel like the fence is getting barbed wire and I will have to jump off).


I am always astounded by the level of hyperbole used when someone wants to make an argument for something they want. It is really odd.

A level cap of 10 can work fine with one game, a game with a sequel, GM mode or expansion(s).
And no, it doesn't mean it would be a demo game that would just be "a demo game that becomes abandonware".
(I thought I also wanted to make some arguments about how and why, but it seems kind of pointless)


The point is that it will take another game to have the full experience. Taking years to max out your character is not something that I look forward to.
All the recent CRPGS, including the Larian ones, allow for max level way before endgame.


No that wasn't the point of the post I quoted. If it was, it would not have been overly dramatic.
You are trying to build your point on top of hyperbole, which doesn't really help.

BUT it is entirely possible to make one game, one story, that is limited to a certain "power level". This is done in writing, films and roleplaying games all the time.
Having a balance between the protagonists and antagonists is logical and make for a much better story than having the player characters being wastly more powerful than their enemies.
Insisting on a heroes journey that goes all the way to the most powerful can actually limit a story, because you will then have to expand this power on the opposite side also.

I am not sure if you thought about the effects on the story if you expand the levels to include lv 1 to 20.
The story is probably already laid out as we speak. They have the idea, they have a beginning and and ending and they most likely have a lot of what is in the middle.
If you want to expand the power level of the story, you will have to change a lot of it.
You can either make it twice as long and expect them to just add more and more to the story to fit your wish. Or you can ask them to change the whole story so it will fit with what you want.
I don't see either happening really. And I trust the people writing the game and the developers to have a good grasp of these things, so I am confident that the level range they have set isn't just some arbitrary numbers, but in fact fits with the story they want to tell.

vometia #663696 13/03/20 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
I am astounded by people who always see the need to animadvert on someone's opinion about what they think about the game. But that seems to be the norm on these forums.

It seems to be a recent arrival and one I would like to see depart just as quickly. So as a note to everyone, let's not do that.


Really?

Greatly exaggerated posts is a thing that promotes any kind of discussion?
I mean, I am sorry I called it out and all, but it really makes me want to go hang myself with barbed wires while my children are watching.

Cirolle #663711 13/03/20 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Cirolle
Really?

Greatly exaggerated posts is a thing that promotes any kind of discussion?
I mean, I am sorry I called it out and all, but it really makes me want to go hang myself with barbed wires while my children are watching.

Exaggerated is... well, a thing, but not the one I was getting at. It's the rudeness and misrepresentation that have been recently problematic.

Also argh.


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vometia #663715 13/03/20 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Cirolle
Really?

Greatly exaggerated posts is a thing that promotes any kind of discussion?
I mean, I am sorry I called it out and all, but it really makes me want to go hang myself with barbed wires while my children are watching.

Exaggerated is... well, a thing, but not the one I was getting at. It's the rudeness and misrepresentation that have been recently problematic.

Also argh.


wink

Alright, since your post before that must have been directed at me, I will say I did not intent to be rude. I did however intent to show my annoyance with the hyperbole since I feel it just sidetracks any kind of discussion.
I will try to be better at ignoring it.

MasterServo #663745 13/03/20 08:02 PM
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I was talking about D&D rules ffs. Not the game.
Sad most high levels spells will be killed off.

Torque #663756 13/03/20 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Torque
Pretty sure this means BG4 is already in the pipeline. (They also said there wont be any DLCs)

One reason why I prefer BG1 over BG2 (while BG2 is objectivly a better game) is the sense of scope. In BG1 they capture that "leaving the Shire for the first time" vibe that is lost the more (literal) experience you get. So for me this isnt bad news at all, it just means we'll get more games in the future.


Exactly I'm 99.9999% certain this means BG4. If that goes well maybe even a BG 5 if by then Larian and WotC have figured out Epic play rules. I think Myth Oddysessys of Theros might be a step in that direction with its Mythic Monsters.

Dark_Ansem #663757 13/03/20 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
I was talking about D&D rules ffs. Not the game.
Sad most high levels spells will be killed off.


Not killed off, saved for BG4, this is obviously part 1 of a 2 or 3 part story.

MasterServo #663759 13/03/20 09:39 PM
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Maybe too soon for talking about BG4... pure speculation , but if i'd have to bet, i'll say maybe they saved it for DLC ( or expansions, call it like you want ) taking for "base" the same game ( BG3 so ) with each time a new level cap. ( Like MMO do it, even if it's not the same case, you 'll see the idea )

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