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Joined: Feb 2020
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Feb 2020
Whenever I was playing old Infinity engine games (BG1 and 2, IWD, Torment), as well as new PoE, I would always min-max my main character.

However, Larian's DOS approach was to somewhat disable min-maxing, or make it less desirable when creating builds.

What do you think, should BG3 support min-maxing or not?

(i think it should support because I really liked my BG2 min-max kensai/mage multiclass OP build, and would like to see such interesting combinations back in BG3, dont really care about balancing that much).

Joined: Sep 2015
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2015
DnD is unbalanced, many players will min max as hell, power gamers will run through the game like gods while new players will be crushed by almost every enemy.

D:OS2 was just simplistic. Max out your main stat, max out the skills that increase your damage, select equipment that maximises those stats and skills.

I am not a PnP expert so I might run into problems, but I still prefer DnD rules over D:OS2 in every case.
Inflating numbers and completely random items, plus the whole screen was on (cursed) fire or electricity ruined my day, so I never finished D:OS2 even though I was a backer.

Last edited by Madscientist; 14/03/20 11:29 PM.

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Because there are too many people who work on artificial intelligence already :hihi:
Joined: Mar 2020
stranger
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Joined: Mar 2020
If they're importing the 5e rules as faithfully as possible you'll be able to powergame the absolute shit out of your character. The current edition is about as balanced as D&D can probably get without completely gutting its magic system and making every class too boring and samey, but it's no where near balanced.

The real opportunity to break the game wide open will be if you can build all your companions from scratch. Just as a crude example, make sure everyone has a Charisma of 13 and takes two levels of Warlock (not at all a hardship, even if your Cha never goes above 13 there are plenty of great Warlock spells that don't rely on attack rolls or saves) for the Devil's Sight ability, which lets you see perfectly in even magical darkness, and you have an entire party that can act at full capability within the radius of the Darkness spell, which is crippling to 95% of enemies.

Joined: Mar 2013
S
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Joined: Mar 2013
>old good new bad

what are you talking about.
PoE allowed min maxing? the game by BALANCEMAN himself?
The biggest criticism of PoE was that you couldnt do this.

Meanwhile in Divinity you could make a completley ridiuclous lone wolf build that wipes the floor with most encounters before they have even begun. If you didnt find it possible to minmax in divinity, you were just bad at it.
i genuinly do not understand where those arguments keep coming from.

Its like you people sit there all day, pondering about a new thing you can claim larian does "wrong", without having any actual clue.

>5e is balanced
the only edition less balanced than 5e is 3E / 3.5E
The older editions were much more balanced because they were far more simplistic and characters couldnt be nearly as powerfull.
4e was created with class balance in mind.

5e is basically 3.5 light and thus it shares its problem with having vast differences in power even within one class depending ont he spells or fighting styles you pick

Last edited by Sordak; 26/03/20 07:47 AM.
Joined: Mar 2020
stranger
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Joined: Mar 2020
I think we might mean two different things when we talk about balance. I'm talking about the balance across classes; the overall utility of the worst classes (Beastmaster Ranger and Four Elements Monk) isn't so low in comparison to the best (all the Wizards, Divination leading by a nose, and Lore Bards) that their presence in the party is a net negative. Sure, in past editions you didn't have as many customization options, but that didn't stop Wizards, Clerics, and Druids from being just flat out better in every way than Fighters and Thieves. Unless you intentionally set out to build an ineffective character; pick a race with the wrong stat bonuses and put your scores in the wrong places, a 5e character will at least be functional, and even the most carefully powergamed character won't be tremendously more effective than a bog standard one.

Fourth was a completely different kettle of fish. That was more about system mastery, and being able to sort through hundreds of character options to produce the most disgustingly OP build possible.

Joined: Jul 2019
enthusiast
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Joined: Jul 2019
Originally Posted by Sordak
>old good new bad

what are you talking about.
PoE allowed min maxing? the game by BALANCEMAN himself?
The biggest criticism of PoE was that you couldnt do this.

Meanwhile in Divinity you could make a completley ridiuclous lone wolf build that wipes the floor with most encounters before they have even begun. If you didnt find it possible to minmax in divinity, you were just bad at it.
i genuinly do not understand where those arguments keep coming from.

Its like you people sit there all day, pondering about a new thing you can claim larian does "wrong", without having any actual clue.

>5e is balanced
the only edition less balanced than 5e is 3E / 3.5E
The older editions were much more balanced because they were far more simplistic and characters couldnt be nearly as powerfull.
4e was created with class balance in mind.

5e is basically 3.5 light and thus it shares its problem with having vast differences in power even within one class depending ont he spells or fighting styles you pick

Both PoE1 and PoE2 allow for broken OP MC. The difference is that PoE2 relies more into finding stuff that Sawyer didn't realize was there, such as the Scordeos Edge + Salvation of time combo. Paladin + Rogue Assassin is ridiculous as well, just watch how many solo vids are there.
In PoE1 not only most skills were stronger than PoE2 counterpart, but items with +4 to stats and attack speed that allowed zero recovery were abundant. Also, Durgan Steel. My Rogue could kill any enemy in the game, including Llengraths Dragons, in less than 10 seconds. Yes, I counted.

Now, regarding DnD, 5e is more balanced than 3.5 since you can't reach level 40 which is essentially godhood, and no AC of 60. But just playing BG you can see that 2ed is far from balanced, just take any high level Thief multi and it can solo the game in any difficulty. Hell, you barely even have to fight, just plant traps and kill the Demogorgon in 3 seconds.


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