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What really bothers me about the BG3 demo is that Larian is still using a lot of DOS features like:

1) marking red field of vision when sneaking (same as DOS - proposing to change this visual),
2) using fog clouds animations (same as DOS, please remove this visual and make it a PC/NPC status),
3) overusing surfaces interactions (water, grease, blood etd - same as DOS; please enough with DOS features),
4) to much items and overly large inventories (same as DOS - BG1and2 had relatively small inventories, I would propose to somehow simplify the item gathering process or even use a mechanic like a courier similar to what they did in Torchlight - it can pick up generic items and sell them with on or two clicks)
5) making the combat not look so similar to DOS (changing/removing the attack path line visual)
6) changing the jumping animation to something a bit more realistic (i think nobody was really impressed when Swen Vicke showcased the feather spell and jumped of the building - that spell is a rip off from Morrowind etc.)

Just my two cents, what DOS gimmicks/features from DOS would you NOT like to see in BG3?

Last edited by kyrthorsen; 14/03/20 10:42 PM.
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Off the top of my head, just the barrel/bush/rock thing when sneaking .. but it's already out, so that's good.

As for your points:

1) Doesn't bother me
2) Not sure what the fog cloud is
3) Agree (and I think they intend to tone it down)
4) Loot will be less
5) I don't see a problem
6) Yeah, I guess. If it is supposed to be like a Jump spell instead of a basic jump move, then I agree (and the jumping should be more for jumping down and not up).

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Jump has always been silly in D&D.

'High Jump. When you make a high jump, you leap into the air a number of feet equal to 3 + your Strength modifier if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump. When you make a standing high jump, you can jump only half that distance. Either way, each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement.'.
So if I have an 18 STR (Highest STR I've ever had in D&D) that's 3+4 = 7 feet. My 18 Str Barbarian can just two whole feet higher than I am tall, IRL. He can physically hurdle me while I am standing up.
Also, the world record high jump is 8 feet. And I'd say an 18 STR is 'world record althletics' level.

'Long Jump. When you make a long jump, you cover a number of feet up to your Strength score if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump. When you make a standing long jump, you can leap only half that distance. Either way, each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement.'
Again, using my 18 STR Barbarian, he can make a running jump of 18 feet. Keep in mind, the world record IRL is 29 feet. And I'd again say a dude with 18 STR is at the 'world record athlete' level.

So, if anything, D&D is actually toned down from real life, or matches it closely.

That said, the animation will hopefully be tweaked so it looks more natural.

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Glad to hear you agree with most of my suggestions.

As per point 2) you can check:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9hU6UJX_pc

at 54.47 there is a black cloud that either hides or blinds characters. They already used that in DOS and I think it looks way to similar to DOS.

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Yeah well 18 STR in D&D is like god-like strength so should be at world class athletics level.

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Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
Yeah well 18 STR in D&D is like god-like strength so should be at world class athletics level.

Yeah. I just pointing out that the rules mete out to RL pretty well. So the animation may just need adjusting.

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Originally Posted by Eguzky


So, if anything, D&D is actually toned down from real life, or matches it closely.

That said, the animation will hopefully be tweaked so it looks more natural.


I stand corrected. In that case, then, yes, the animation can (and likely will) be tweaked to look more natural (again, unless they intend for it be a spell for jump, which opens the door to animations like that). Bottom line, though, it really doesn't bother me.


Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
Glad to hear you agree with most of my suggestions.

As per point 2) you can check:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9hU6UJX_pc

at 54.47 there is a black cloud that either hides or blinds characters. They already used that in DOS and I think it looks way to similar to DOS.


Ah, I see. Well, I think cloud animations definitely have their place, especially in D&D (Stinking Cloud, Cloudkill, etc). But, it does seem silly that npcs just walk into it like they don't notice anything. But ... pre-alpha so who knows.


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Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
What really bothers me about the BG3 demo is that Larian is still using a lot of DOS features like:

1) marking red field of vision when sneaking (same as DOS - proposing to change this visual),
2) using fog clouds animations (same as DOS, please remove this visual and make it a PC/NPC status),
3) overusing surfaces interactions (water, grease, blood etd - same as DOS; please enough with DOS features),
4) to much items and overly large inventories (same as DOS - BG1and2 had relatively small inventories, I would propose to somehow simplify the item gathering process or even use a mechanic like a courier similar to what they did in Torchlight - it can pick up generic items and sell them with on or two clicks)
5) making the combat not look so similar to DOS (changing/removing the attack path line visual)
6) changing the jumping animation to something a bit more realistic (i think nobody was really impressed when Swen Vicke showcased the feather spell and jumped of the building - that spell is a rip off from Morrowind etc.)

Just my two cents, what DOS gimmicks/features from DOS would you NOT like to see in BG3?


I'm mainly bothered about things that make no sense, don't fit, or get in the way.

- environmental barrels/surfaces shouldn't be spewed everywhere
- world animations and effects should reflect the time/space constraints and be high fantasy in tone
- UI behaviour should be functional with no more "bling" than is strictly necessary

- and, of course, neither Jan Jansen, nor any of his extended family should ever be heard from again! I know it's not DOS, but even BG had hateful aspects. More directly, I would certainly prefer that wacky or goofy humor and easter eggs are hidden behind some form of toggle, as they can completely ruin the atmosphere. For example, in Fallout NV you had to select the "Wild Wasteland" trait if you wanted silliness, otherwise it was simply not there.

As for other stuff like the sneaking FOV, I don't really care if it's been seen before, as long as it makes sense.

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Originally Posted by kyrthorsen


1) marking red field of vision when sneaking (same as DOS - proposing to change this visual),
2) using fog clouds animations (same as DOS, please remove this visual and make it a PC/NPC status),
3) overusing surfaces interactions (water, grease, blood etd - same as DOS; please enough with DOS features),
4) to much items and overly large inventories (same as DOS - BG1and2 had relatively small inventories, I would propose to somehow simplify the item gathering process or even use a mechanic like a courier similar to what they did in Torchlight - it can pick up generic items and sell them with on or two clicks)
5) making the combat not look so similar to DOS (changing/removing the attack path line visual)
6) changing the jumping animation to something a bit more realistic (i think nobody was really impressed when Swen Vicke showcased the feather spell and jumped of the building - that spell is a rip off from Morrowind etc.)


I must say, I find many complaints by OP absurd. Little in terms of arguing why would BG3 benefit of those changes beside not reminding OP that the team made D:OS2 as well.

1) Why? Is there anything wrong with it? It could look nicer and smoother, but cone of vision is a great stealth feature and it is implimented clearly and intuitively.
2) What's wrong with it, beside appearing in D:OS2? I do find an idea of "zone of darkness" to be rather silly, though in the world of magic anything is possible I suppose. Gameplay wise it seems like a neat design, with multitude of uses. Overall, intrigued by advenrtised stealth features.
3) I actually haven't seen much of it. I do agree that D:OS relied a bit too much on those, but those are good features, that can help making location and encounters unique and memorable. In tabletop you can use spells and abilities to interact with stuff around you. In Pillars those can be in scripted interactions. BG3 has a potential for a very robust enviroment interactions and as long as they won't overshadow the actual DnD system, they are neat.
4) I will hold my judgement on that. I was not a fan of inventory in D:OS2, or should I say - mostly trash item design. Now, BG2 inventory wasn't that small - it's just potions, gems, scrolls and plenty of weapons were carried in their own inventories, inside the inventory - a feature that can be easily replaced by a proper filtering options. Afterall, one was never forced to leave anything valuable behind in BG2.
5) UI has a chance to change - a lot of stuff is currently reused to accelerate development and things will be finalized later in development. Still, you fail to mention what's so wrong with it, beside being similar (or same) as their previous title.
6) Yeah, I would prefer if they found a way to make jump more believable. I get that they want it to be far, for gameplay purposes, but even with enhanced abilities it just looks silly right now. A lot could be improved with a bit more fluid animations though.

Last edited by Wormerine; 14/03/20 11:35 PM.
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Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
Glad to hear you agree with most of my suggestions.

As per point 2) you can check:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9hU6UJX_pc

at 54.47 there is a black cloud that either hides or blinds characters. They already used that in DOS and I think it looks way to similar to DOS.



If you will go back and freeze the video @54:25 You will notice that the character was using an arrow of darkness.

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The 'Jump' mechanic will never not be jarring whenever my clunky dwarven cleric in full plate will be able to leap like a panther 10 feet vertically. Although I read in the reddit AMA that Jump will be strenght based so maybe that wont be the case. But I hope there will be armor check penalties in the game?

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What really bothers me about the BG3 demo is that Larian is still using a lot of DOS features like:

Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
1) marking red field of vision when sneaking (same as DOS - proposing to change this visual),

My issue with it was the field of view. Its like 45% or something? You can basically move right next to someone but since the enemies apperently have horse blinders on they wont see you.
Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
2) using fog clouds animations (same as DOS, please remove this visual and make it a PC/NPC status),

I disagree. Why would a spell that create a cloud (or similar effect) not be visible? Too much shit on the screen? I dont know, it would be immersion breaking if you cast an Grease spell and there wouldnt be grease on the floor.
Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
3) overusing surfaces interactions (water, grease, blood etd - same as DOS; please enough with DOS features),

I saw Sven dipping his bow in fire (and essentially set it ablaze) and while thats a cool feature it should actually just set fire to the tip of the arrow. And, if we really want to go there, you should have to set fire to a new arrow every round. But I mean, it makes sense for water, smoke, oil, ice or whatever, to have a tangible effect on the gameplay and not just fancy art in the background.
Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
4) to much items and overly large inventories (same as DOS - BG1and2 had relatively small inventories, I would propose to somehow simplify the item gathering process or even use a mechanic like a courier similar to what they did in Torchlight - it can pick up generic items and sell them with on or two clicks)

Tempted to agree but not sure. While having loads of junk laying around it means that the world is living. It doesnt matter if the fork and spoon on the table, for all gameplay purposes, is useless. But perhaps an option to filter out "Useless" stuff? In some areas in DOS2 when you tab to highlight items, your whole screen is just words.

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Originally Posted by Torque

I saw Sven dipping his bow in fire (and essentially set it ablaze) and while thats a cool feature it should actually just set fire to the tip of the arrow. And, if we really want to go there, you should have to set fire to a new arrow every round.

This is where I am willing to excuse “realism” with convenience and clarity. Having to set every individual arrow on fire would be tedious. Having just an arrow’s tip fire wouldn’t be clearly visible.

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DOS and DOS2 were masterpiece level RPGs, borrowing things from them, to me, is completely fine.

It's like you are wanting Larian to not be Larian, OP.

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The animations need to be reworked from the ground up. It’s a great opportunity to distinguish the game from DOS2. They’re too jolly, goofy and not at all in line with the more grounded tone of Baldurs Gate.

Everyone is talking about the jumping animation, which is one of the more obvious ones. The shooting animation is probably in most need of a change though. It’s just so silly. The arc isn’t needed when aiming at an enemy at these distances. If there’s a big obstacle in the way, like a fortress wall, by all means use the arc, otherwise remove it. And make the animation more forceful.

Also, the running animation seem to be a copy paste from DOS2 thus far. It’s swanky and just not a quality animation. It needs to change into a more realistic animation that has weight and determination to it.

Things like this really contribute to the overall tone of the game. Right now it doesn’t have its own voice. It just screams DOS.


Last edited by Exclusif; 15/03/20 04:07 PM.
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Originally Posted by Exclusif
The animations need to be reworked from the ground up. It’s a great opportunity to distinguish the game from DOS2. They’re too jolly, goofy and not at all in line with the more grounded tone of Baldurs Gate.

Everyone is talking about the jumping animation, which is one of the more obvious ones. The shooting animation is probably in most need of a change though. It’s just so silly. The arc isn’t needed when aiming at an enemy at these distances. If there’s a big obstacle in the way, like a fortress wall, by all means use the arc, otherwise remove it. And make the animation more forceful.

Also, the running animation seem to be a copy paste from DOS2 thus far. It’s swanky and just not a quality animation. It needs to change into a more realistic animation that has weight and determination to it.

Things like this really contribute to the overall tone of the game. Right now it doesn’t have its own voice. It just screams DOS.



Yeah totally agree that animations look jolly or goofy...I personally dont like that because im into dark fantasy more...but a lot of larian fans here seem to love the jolly/goofy stuff, and Larian is like that so unfortunately IMO we will see a lot of jolly/goody stuff in the final game.

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Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
but a lot of larian fans here seem to love the jolly/goofy stuff, and Larian is like that so unfortunately IMO we will see a lot of jolly/goody stuff in the final game.


Or largely just don't really agree that the animations look goofy, etc. Going by these criticisms, you would think they used Moe, Larry, and Curly for their mocap sessions.

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Last edited by qhristoff; 15/03/20 05:45 PM. Reason: formatting
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Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
but a lot of larian fans here seem to love the jolly/goofy stuff, and Larian is like that so unfortunately IMO we will see a lot of jolly/goody stuff in the final game.


Or largely just don't really agree that the animations look goofy, etc. Going by these criticisms, you would think they used Moe, Larry, and Curly for their mocap sessions.


Not all animations look goofy/silly, but some of them most certainly do. Especially the ones I mentioned. Larian frequently talk about how they want BG3 to be a darker and overall more serious game. Animations need to reflect that, which I actually think they will eventually. Still it’s concerning.

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Originally Posted by Exclusif
Not all animations look goofy/silly, but some of them most certainly do. Especially the ones I mentioned. Larian frequently talk about how they want BG3 to be a darker and overall more serious game. Animations need to reflect that, which I actually think they will eventually. Still it’s concerning.


Okay, maybe some of the running animations (e.g. elf). The ranged beam/arc has the utility of letting you know what is or is not in your line of sight. I have no problem with it.

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