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Originally Posted by _Vic_

Again, no one refutes that the BG3 gameplay and DOS2 do LOOK alike, what all the people here besides you are saying is that a game is not all about looks, there are plenty of other things like combat mechanics, setting, character creation, etc... and I think its a pipedream that you think a game made in 2020 by a different company is going to look like a game of 2002, no matter how incredible is the game.

The look of a game does matter. A lot.
And saying someone not liking the look of BG3 means they want it to look like a game from 2002 is the very definition of a straw man.

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what else could it mean.
Baldurs Gates artstyle is incredibly generic, it beeing 2d is it sonly feature

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Originally Posted by Andy Butula
Wow. Really? I'm not pissing and moaning about what BG3 isn't going to be so that means I'm a shill? Though if "Hey, this might not be bad" is enough to qualify me for the PR team I won't say no to a check.

What is the appeal of constantly bitching about what the game isn't going to be? If you're already convinced it's not for you, why not just move on? Find something else to kill time with.


Its either

a) You express positivity and you're a shill

or

b) You express negativity and you have multiple accounts coordinating a "hatestorm"


Noone on these forums have a genuine opinion about anything, especially if that opinion is opposite your own.

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Is that really a thing, multiple accounts to force through negativity? frown

I agree that visuals are important. It's not necessarily about pushing the tech, having the highest fidelity, most detail, state-of-the-art graphics. But beautiful visuals that fit the gameplay, world and story is a massive boon for any game. I like both Pillars of Eternity games, they did some things very well and a few not so much imo, but one thing they absolutely nailed in my opinion is the visuals. Both of those games are gorgeous, and look very much like what I'd imagine a modern spiritual Baldur's Gate game would look like.

If Larian takes any notes at all from Obsidians efforts, I hope this is one of them laugh

I know BG 3 is deep into development and they've already shown us gameplay, and things like graphics aren't a thing that changes much at this point. But they really wouldn't have to change all that much to suit my personal preference a bit more, so a man can dream. The devs mentioned a dirt/grit system so that might be a step into that direction smile

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Originally Posted by CPT_SLOW
Is that really a thing, multiple accounts to force through negativity? frown

Less often than you might think but it does happen. Some are less subtle than others; I dare say there're some we don't know about but if someone's prepared to put in that amount of effort for a small forum... *shrug*


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I've never played any Baldur's Gate game, but judging from the gameplay vids it looks interesting.

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Just to state the hopefully obvious:

You are now developing Baldur's Gate 3. Larian is no longer a niche dev making goofy lovable games off in the corner.

This is no longer a "small" forum.

There are 5 main points of access for information to fans:

1) Twitter
2) this forum
3) reddit
4) steam forums
5) RPG codex

with other ancillary sources all over the place.

Twitter and this forum are the ONLY official channels.

Last edited by qhristoff; 09/04/20 04:53 PM.
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Originally Posted by CPT_SLOW
Is that really a thing, multiple accounts to force through negativity? frown

)


Sadly yes, as Vometia pointed out, and he/she/they even brag about it in Reddit weeks ago...



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got a reddit link?
i got some sources on that from another website alltogether

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Ah, what a shame. Seems a bit immature. You'd think this isn't the type of games that attracts the toxic Call of Duty / Fortnite crowds (of 12yearolds) laugh

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Originally Posted by Sordak
got a reddit link?
i got some sources on that from another website alltogether

No kidding? Do you think it´s the same person or did they multiply? o.O

Couldn't find it, but IIRC that was crazy, even for Reddit standards. He/she/they even had a mini-tutorial on how to use VPN or some nonsense to make multiple accounts to encourage people to do the same and weird stuff like that. If I find it I will post it, just for the Lulz, because it was pure comedy-channel material.

Last edited by _Vic_; 09/04/20 08:23 PM.
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Originally Posted by qhristoff
Just to state the hopefully obvious:

You are now developing Baldur's Gate 3. Larian is no longer a niche dev making goofy lovable games off in the corner.

This is no longer a "small" forum.

There are 5 main points of access for information to fans:

1) Twitter
2) this forum
3) reddit
4) steam forums
5) RPG codex

with other ancillary sources all over the place.

Twitter and this forum are the ONLY official channels.


Yep, that "small indie dev charm" went away in DOS2 for me. Felt like a tripple A product, fully polished and perfect in every way. Why I dont think thats a good thing, I dont know. Is it comparable to something hand crafted and something massproduced?

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Originally Posted by Torque

Yep, that "small indie dev charm" went away in DOS2 for me. Felt like a tripple A product, fully polished and perfect in every way. Why I dont think thats a good thing, I dont know. Is it comparable to something hand crafted and something massproduced?

It is the transversal from "design by artistic process" to "design by sales expectations". The same thing happened with Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire. The reason it didn't resonate was because Pillars 1 was a work of art, whether you liked the combat or linear balance or not, it was a crafted experience. Deadfire was a backer driven mess of schlock romances and pointless ship combat.

You see the same parallel with DOS to DOS2 where DOS, despite some flaws like the dialogue system and the barely 2-tier paper-rock-scissors combat, was a crafted work of passion. DOS2 was an ego trip... it just so happened to also be a successful one, which is why there is so much of that fan momentum pushing BG3 forward. Egos need to be stroked.

Last edited by qhristoff; 10/04/20 12:53 AM.
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Yes Larian is making triple A titles now with the BG name but for me the only reason I am even here is because of the BG3 announcements. Now since then I have purchased and played through D:OS 2 just to get a feel of the studios "Resume" and I was actually quite impressed so color me optimistic but I think we are in good hands.

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Originally Posted by qhristoff
t is the transversal from "design by artistic process" to "design by sales expectations". The same thing happened with Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire. The reason it didn't resonate was because Pillars 1 was a work of art, whether you liked the combat or linear balance or not, it was a crafted experience. Deadfire was a backer driven mess of schlock romances and pointless ship combat.

You see the same parallel with DOS to DOS2 where DOS, despite some flaws like the dialogue system and the barely 2-tier paper-rock-scissors combat, was a crafted work of passion. DOS2 was an ego trip... it just so happened to also be a successful one, which is why there is so much of that fan momentum pushing BG3 forward. Egos need to be stroked.


Divinity: Original Sin is an uncut diamond, DOS2 turned it flawless. I dont think its about ego though, its more like success brings a certain set of expectations. And what I think happens then is that developers listen too much on feedback than just making a game that they want to play. The phrase "we listened to the community and improved alot for the sequel" is standard these days, and I'm not so sure its so great? People become fans of the developers and if expectations arent met they get irrationally mad and start demanding change. There are probably some interesting things psychology can teach us about this behavior. As an armchair psychologist myself I suggest that people get so emotionaly invested that they feel entitled: "YOU are not ruining MY game!".

Anyways, I dont think devs should listen too much to the community (I realize the irony of this post) but instead do what feels right. It took Larian decades to get a breakthrough hit. Not sure what the secret ingredient was (probably several) but I doubt there was statistical analysis of some nebolous idea of "what people want".

Last edited by Torque; 10/04/20 11:19 AM.
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Originally Posted by Torque

Anyways, I dont think devs should listen too much to the community (I realize the irony of this post) but instead do what feels right.

Don't worry, they're not.


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Originally Posted by Torque
DOS2 turned it flawless.

it most certainly did not. you may really like it, but it is not a "flawless cut diamond".

the writing is crap.
the narrative is stunted.
the characters are memes.
the combat is repetitive and too reliant on cheese mechanics.
the combat is slow and tedious and lacks impressive set battles.
the restrictions to ranged combat are arbitrary and clearly a bandaid to some other design flaw they couldn't overcome.
the itemization of gear and loot is atrocious and meaningless.
the graphics look like they were all wrapped in saran wrap to keep them fresh until opened.

I could go on.

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Hey I wouldn't call DOS2 a flawless diamond either but you do sound very triggered about it lol

qhristoff despite the list you wrote, do you look forward to BG3?

Apologies if you've already said, I skimmed through the thread but couldn't find.

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I do look forward to BG3.

Baldur's Gate is 100% my favourite game of all time. BG1&2 represent a "true" masterpiece in the artistic sense where the confluence of writing and the level of player influence over the story hit a peak that, quite honestly, have NEVER been seen since. And they likely won't be. The only other game to ever match BG was Chrono Trigger - which I think is the best game of all time (even if I *like* BG more - mostly because I love RTwP combat).

I also believe 100% that Larian wants to make the best game they can, I am never going to fault Larian for passion or desire or intent. They love games, they love RPGs. But I honestly have reservations about how much they actually love Baldur's Gate, given the repeated bashing of it by Imbert and others which has created a negative atmosphere amongst the easy persuaded fan base.

I think that the hints of the Three pulling the strings is an interesting narrative choice, and the subtle hints that perhaps the mind flayers aren't actually the villains is also neat.

But why is this a Baldur's Gate game? I would be sincerely surprised if the links were more than just easter eggs and setting throwbacks.

None of the graphic style remains, none of the characters remain, none of the combat or innovative D&D adaptations remain. It could be called anything other than Baldur's Gate and still be an impressive new entry for D&D fans.

Imagine if DOOM Eternal were a tactical shooter like Rainbow Six and it's only link was the past existence of the Icon of Sin and demons from Hell, and Doom Guy easter eggs. Would you still call it DOOM?

I do not like Larian games. I find their writing and their goofiness to be off putting and insipid. I find their combat design to be exceptionally basic and gimmicky. Without flinching from the fact, when I first heard that Larian got the BG license, my heart dropped.

But BG is something I love, so I am willing to sit through all of the hatred from Larian fans who think I am just a troll because I am disappointed. I will buy the game because I am a collector, and because I cannot fully judge the game until I play it.

But I have been gaming for 3 decades. I've seen everything that has come out and I have followed every thread of the evolution of the gaming industry. I have absolutely no faith that what we saw in the gameplay reveal will substantially change. I have absolutely no faith that Larian is capable of making anything but re-iterations of what they've already done. They are taking zero risk by editing the DOS2 engine. No matter how you slice it, BG3 is just a heavily modified DOS2.

Swen himself said in an interview in Malaysia that he thinks BG has wider reach than Divinity, and so this is an opportunity to show more people what Divinity games are like, and to sell more Divinity games. Although, much of what he said during the AMA gave me more respect for him. Part of me thinks that Wizards is pulling more strings than the marketing is letting on.

I have zero faith or expectation that BG3 will be anything more than Divinity: Forgotten Realms. Which would be amazing and great if they didn't openly admit to gutting the soul of Baldur's Gate to do exactly that.

It's heartbreaking.

Last edited by qhristoff; 10/04/20 06:50 PM.
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Dude I have been gaming for several millennia and I have a feeling BG3 will be a success. They're not gutting the series, they're merely trying to teach you how DnD is meant to be played.

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