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#664694 22/03/20 03:02 AM
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Okay we know at least part of the mature rating is for gross body horror, but what else do you think will earn that rating in BG3?

I have a feeling that FR Drugs will be in the game, I know Baldur's Gate has some major brothels like the Undercellar, Faerun has alot of Sex/Party Gods, there might be some murders and human sacrifice, foul language seems certain, booze, Succubi, and perhaps nudity, maybe depictions of torture, slavery, and genocide.

Did I forget anything?


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I think it is probably for the blood pools that Larian is known for.

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Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
I think it is probably for the blood pools that Larian is known for.


Well Larian has said that they are going to push the Mature Rating as far as they can in every way they can, right up to the point that the "ratings board gets annoying". That suggests alot more then just pools of blood or body horror even.

I am a huge Realms Sage as it were and I while you can easily run a PG campaign in FR if you want, if you dig down deeper, its the most explicit and adult settings in D&D. Rape, Magic Rape, Abortion, attempted Infanticide, genocide, magic war crimes, orgies, brothels, Brothel Temples, Graphics scenes of torture and mutiliation, sex with hudeous demons, three ways with shapeshifting Dragons, Gods of Lust/Joy/BDSM in plenty, Serial Killer Gods, Brain Eating horrors, and soooo much more are all things I've run into in FR novels and FR source Books.

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One of the things I hate about the mature rating is it's like 99% of violence in video games but like 1% of sexual content in video games I do understand why video game companies do this anything more than 1% sexual content in a video game you are going to get people like this


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Originally Posted by TheInfinitySock
One of the things I hate about the mature rating is it's like 99% of violence in video games but like 1% of sexual content in video games I do understand why video game companies do this anything more than 1% sexual content in a video game you are going to get people like this


I don't know, I don't miss it. Did sex scenes really add much in da:o? If it adds to char or plot development it's good, but generally in media it's just pandering - look bewbies!

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Originally Posted by TadasGa
Originally Posted by TheInfinitySock
One of the things I hate about the mature rating is it's like 99% of violence in video games but like 1% of sexual content in video games I do understand why video game companies do this anything more than 1% sexual content in a video game you are going to get people like this


I don't know, I don't miss it. Did sex scenes really add much in da:o? If it adds to char or plot development it's good, but generally in media it's just pandering - look bewbies!

Still I do find it funny that some people think that violence in video games are okay but having sexual content in a video game is going to far people like this really need to grow up and get real


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How are pc game rating different than tv ratings?

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Thanks for reading...

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Originally Posted by Razorback
How are pc game rating different than tv ratings?

I think it's more of a general observation. It seems to be a cultural thing from what I can tell, where the US has a thing that violence is fine but sex and nudity are unacceptable, much of Europe is the other way round and the UK is somewhere in the middle, being neither desperately keen nor massively disapproving of either.


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Originally Posted by TadasGa
Originally Posted by TheInfinitySock
One of the things I hate about the mature rating is it's like 99% of violence in video games but like 1% of sexual content in video games I do understand why video game companies do this anything more than 1% sexual content in a video game you are going to get people like this


I don't know, I don't miss it. Did sex scenes really add much in da:o? If it adds to char or plot development it's good, but generally in media it's just pandering - look bewbies!

Sex is a major part of life: and that's how I like my RPGs to be, a lifelike adventure that I can relate to, in all ways.

DA:O had a good amount of sexual material IMO, Pillars 2 even has full frontal nudity (albeit small infinity engine style genitals), it's important to represent all sides of a world, not just the violence.

I'm baffled how violence is ok, but sex/drugs are far more taboo....maybe it's where you were brought up? (I'm a very liberal New Zealander currently in lockdown pondering these thoughts lol).

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Originally Posted by Ivory Samoan
Sex is a major part of life: and that's how I like my RPGs to be, a lifelike adventure that I can relate to, in all ways.

DA:O had a good amount of sexual material IMO.

The thing about nudity and sexuality is, that it is rarely (if ever?) implimented in an interesting way. If violence in games were all about watching cutscenes of digital creatures ripping each other heads off, that would be gratuitous and boring. But that's where most systemic focus is on... DnD origin is a wargame afterall, not datesim.

If one wants to make a detailed game about relationships and sex, then sure... I don't know if it would be my thing, but why not.

As it is however, romances in RPG feel to me gratuitous and at best unnecessary.

Where something like violent Warden's initiation in DA:O held narrative and character importance, DA sex-scenes in underwear (because after ME we don't even have balls for that), backed by shallow romance mechanics were quite laughtable. Witcher2 already doesn't hold up well in that regard, and I imagine, watching polygons rubbing in Witcher3 will be just as awkward in couple years time. Though, at least in Witcher3, sex scenes are at least part of a coherent romance arc, giving them more right to be.

With violence lack of connection helps - afterall slaughtering on mass is not a such fun and nice thing to do (or so I am told). It's a bit like I had a really tough time sitting through "No Country for Old Men", while John Wicks or Warhammer games dont affect me (though I did find JW3 to be too much). Lack of connection in romance/sex scene, on the other hand, works against it.

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About this, The current Forgotten Realms material is highly sanitized from the original Ed Greenwood`s vision https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Ed_Greenwood (One of the original creators of the FR setting). In FR as created by Ed:

Bi-sexuality is normal (and yes, this means the men as well as the women)
"Revels" (sex orgies) are normal
"Festhalls" (brothels) are in every small village and visiting them is normal way to spend evening.
Prostitution is the main industry of Forgotten Realms, "sex workers" are everywhere and there are about 100 different names for different kinds of prostitutes.
Incest is normal way for families to "indulge feelings of mutual affection"
Public city-wide orgies are the way to celebrate major holidays

All of this is confirmed by Ed Greenwood himself, from Ed's responses to fan queries on the Candlekeep forum. It's also all completely, 100% canon thanks to Ed's ludicrously favorable contract; other writers can try to dance around the creepy shit, but they can't outright contradict anything or else the whole setting falls into Ed's greasy, sticky hands.

Sc :Ed Greenwood AMA http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/sse/so_saith_ed.htm


In short, the Forgotten Realms are Ed Greenwood's magical realm cleaned up by TSR and later Hasbro for general consumption, and the Romantic Encounters mod for Baldur's Gate is probably canon.
An attempt to Retcon the massively corrupt and crime-ridden city of Waterdeep into "Seattle during Pride" was actually met with significant backlash.

Since WOTC is involved in the creative process of BG3, we will possibly see something in the Hasbro lines, with the usual content of a D&D adventure.

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Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Razorback
How are pc game rating different than tv ratings?

I think it's more of a general observation. It seems to be a cultural thing from what I can tell, where the US has a thing that violence is fine but sex and nudity are unacceptable, much of Europe is the other way round and the UK is somewhere in the middle, being neither desperately keen nor massively disapproving of either.


I can confirm that.
I am from germany, some examples:
- All nazi symbols are forbidden, usually they get replaced by other symbols ( Is any Wolfenstein game legal in germany? )
- In some games human enemies have been replaced with robots ( Turok 1 ). Killing realistic looking humans is bad in general, but in fantasy, comic or Pixel art style almost everything is allowed when it does not look realistic.
- Some games removed blood or the blood changed color to green or yellow ( Turok 2 )
- Dismembering enemies is really bad, no removing of body parts ( some Mortal combat games, especially finish moves )
- I think censorship got less over time. Many games fom the 90s were censored ( I played N64 then ), but in Dragon Age Origins your cloth are full of enemy blood and The Witcher 3 can get very brutal.

- America seems to be the other way round: violence is OK but naked skin is not.
For Gothic 1 (RPG from germany) they had to add more cloth to woman to sell it in america.

- Australia seem to have a lot of censorship. Many games were forbidden or heavily consored.

- Sometimes players are really paranoid and see censorship everywhere, even when there is non.
Some people got angry at the devs of Trails of cold Steel 3 because they said they had to change some text because some jokes or references made no sense when translated literally. Thats exactly what good translators schould do.

I see no big problem for BG3. Its a fantasy RPG, so unless they use sex or torture scenes that look realistic like a movie it should be fine.
The intro movie was quite brutal, so I guess the age rating could be 16+ years. Sorry I do not know the different rating systems for different countries.

PS:
I absolutely respect the devs of South Park: Stick of Truth.
They had to remove some stuff but you can always see what has been removed. In germany the nazi zombies have black bars over their symbols and in some countries they had to remove some scenes completely. They are replaced with a text that describes what has been removed.


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ah finally someone who isnt as lazy as me and actually provides proof for my (correct) claim that FR is just greenwoods magical realm

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by Ivory Samoan
Sex is a major part of life: and that's how I like my RPGs to be, a lifelike adventure that I can relate to, in all ways.

DA:O had a good amount of sexual material IMO.

The thing about nudity and sexuality is, that it is rarely (if ever?) implimented in an interesting way. If violence in games were all about watching cutscenes of digital creatures ripping each other heads off, that would be gratuitous and boring. But that's where most systemic focus is on... DnD origin is a wargame afterall, not datesim.

If one wants to make a detailed game about relationships and sex, then sure... I don't know if it would be my thing, but why not.

As it is however, romances in RPG feel to me gratuitous and at best unnecessary.

Whereas D&D sprung out from war-games, it was always a ROLE-PLAYING game. In fact, it pretty much started the whole genre. What you put into the game; combat, intrigue, romance, was always up to the DM and players.

Personally I feel romances are a must in most cRPGs, so I could hardly disagree with you more. These draw from a long history of myths and legends that form the very basis of the D&D fantasy setting: From the Arthurian romance of Guinevere and Lancelot which was based in the concept of courtly love...gone too far, all the way to Tolkien's Lord of the Rings and the bittersweet love of Arwen and Aragorn. Romance played an important part of the original Baldur's Gate series and led to some of the more intriguing party interactions that has become a genre staple. A magic sauce in which a game springs to life. It's an aspect that can add an alternative motivation and provide a respite from endless combat and shallow loot focus.

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Originally Posted by Seraphael
From the Arthurian romance of Guinevere and Lancelot which was based in the concept of courtly love...gone too far, all the way to Tolkien's Lord of the Rings and the bittersweet love of Arwen and Aragorn. Romance played an important part of the original Baldur's Gate series and led to some of the more intriguing party interactions that has become a genre staple. A magic sauce in which a game springs to life. It's an aspect that can add an alternative motivation and provide a respite from endless combat and shallow loot focus.

I dont't disagree that well implimented romance can be greatly beneficial to the adventure, and defining of your character - interactions with companions (and that includes romance and all the drama that follows) are things which draw me in when I played BG2 back in the day.

Oddly enough, I am most fond of those early Infinity Engine romances. While, ekhm, range of available romance might have been heavily limiting roleplaying options, I did feel that BG2 and Planescape did give enough space for their dating moments to feel genuine and engaging. As games gave more control to players over how relationships progres and made more and more companions romancable, thing took a turn into artificial and absurd. Late Bioware adventures turned into weird soap operas where every creature you meet wants the piece of PC.

Deadfire has some neat concepts, tying romances into players reputation and relationship system, but it didn't quite work. Especially on launch.

What I don't need is an awkward token sex scene. Which I am not worried about getting. Whatever worries I have about Larian, I am sure they will come up with something creative. I want more of "winning Shani over" from Heart of Stone, and less "gratitious boat sex with Shani" from Heart of Stone.

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Originally Posted by _Vic_
About this, The current Forgotten Realms material is highly sanitized from the original Ed Greenwood`s vision https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Ed_Greenwood (One of the original creators of the FR setting). In FR as created by Ed:

Bi-sexuality is normal (and yes, this means the men as well as the women)
"Revels" (sex orgies) are normal
"Festhalls" (brothels) are in every small village and visiting them is normal way to spend evening.
Prostitution is the main industry of Forgotten Realms, "sex workers" are everywhere and there are about 100 different names for different kinds of prostitutes.
Incest is normal way for families to "indulge feelings of mutual affection"
Public city-wide orgies are the way to celebrate major holidays

All of this is confirmed by Ed Greenwood himself, from Ed's responses to fan queries on the Candlekeep forum. It's also all completely, 100% canon thanks to Ed's ludicrously favorable contract; other writers can try to dance around the creepy shit, but they can't outright contradict anything or else the whole setting falls into Ed's greasy, sticky hands.

Sc :Ed Greenwood AMA http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/sse/so_saith_ed.htm


In short, the Forgotten Realms are Ed Greenwood's magical realm cleaned up by TSR and later Hasbro for general consumption, and the Romantic Encounters mod for Baldur's Gate is probably canon.
An attempt to Retcon the massively corrupt and crime-ridden city of Waterdeep into "Seattle during Pride" was actually met with significant backlash.

Since WOTC is involved in the creative process of BG3, we will possibly see something in the Hasbro lines, with the usual content of a D&D adventure.


Nothing Ed writes is creepy shit, try showing some respect for a great visionary of the fantasy genre.

And yes TSR tried to clean up FR, with limited success, but WotC always offered a freer hand then TSR. WotC even published a couple of source books with nudity and other mature content in late 3e, early 3.5e. There has been one D&D movie with nudity and an orgy in it, WotC has been known to use porn stars like Satin Phoenix to promote D&D products. There is now swearing in novels, such as the Brimstone Angels and graphic scenes of various mature subject matter.



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i wouldnt call ed a great visionary of the fantasy genre realy.
and yes, his incest stuff is creepy.
but george rr martin also di dit so its not like that stuff cannot get accepted in mainstream fantasy.

Regardless hes got his fetishes and thats ok. But i wouldnt call the elminster books high quality fantasy fiction.

On romance: its hard to do right, because those romances youve mentioned? they tend to tie into the plot somehow.
RPG romances almost never do this (because the developers cannot realy predict hwo does and does not romance whom)

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Originally Posted by Wormerine

Oddly enough, I am most fond of those early Infinity Engine romances. While, ekhm, range of available romance might have been heavily limiting roleplaying options, I did feel that BG2 and Planescape did give enough space for their dating moments to feel genuine and engaging. As games gave more control to players over how relationships progres and made more and more companions romancable, thing took a turn into artificial and absurd. Late Bioware adventures turned into weird soap operas where every creature you meet wants the piece of PC.

Deadfire has some neat concepts, tying romances into players reputation and relationship system, but it didn't quite work. Especially on launch.

What I don't need is an awkward token sex scene. Which I am not worried about getting. Whatever worries I have about Larian, I am sure they will come up with something creative. I want more of "winning Shani over" from Heart of Stone, and less "gratitious boat sex with Shani" from Heart of Stone.

I agree with your assessment of the degeneration of Bioware romances. In danger of becoming political, I think this has much to do with Bioware's super progressive ideology where diversity in the end seemed to matter more than good storytelling. I would much rather have fewer and more involving friendships/enmities and much fewer and deeper romances. And in a way that isn't necessarily an end-goal in of itself where you have scored enough "attitude points" and in the end rewarded with the obligatory cut to dark love scene, but a natural and organic evolving romance progressing beyond the love scene. This will get a player emotionally invested and potentially make for a great story plot.

I never got into any Obsidian game partly because they, in particular Josh Sawyer's design vision is that of a long-standing pathological antipathy against romances. I knew Deadfire would be different in this regard, but too much water under the bridge.

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Speaking of Obsidian, I was surprised see full blown nudity in Deadfire, was a mature take on it too.

Yeah Josh Sawyer doesn't dig romantic integration much though; it's the only thing for me, that could of further enhanced PoE1 and 2.

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Rated Mature for the language and violence (ok not so much the language), but also sex. There is a somewhat explicit sex scene that involves your crated character and an NPC (not companion). Not to give spoilers, but it does involve a female NPC and your character, shows nudity and sexual acts. Kind of cool lol

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