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>i dont expect to get a real life feeling
then why do you expect the real life visuals?
Why does this thread even exist? The answer lies in the question.

>now youre using language
language bad!
Get real. Guilt by association is a bad argument.

>Alright, but your examples don’t seem to work in relation to the topic

>Dark Souls combat doesnt have flashy effects
If BG3 has flashy effects then so does Dark Souls. Its basically the same kind of weapon trails, blur effects for strikes etc, only Dark Souls also has sparks and immense screenshake when you use Ultra Greatswords.
>People call dark souls realistic
Not exactly something ive heard a lot. Especialy since in Dark Souls 1 your character tends to wield any weapon he finds like a big club, which is where half the fun comes from aferall.

>Skyrim is not noted for beeing realistic
Exactly. But it also has no effects whatsoever. No impact effects, no weapon trails, no sparks, no blur effects.
Skyrim and Dark Souls are about as "Realistic" when it comes to two handed weapons, Dark Souls obviously got better animation when it comes to stuff like Falchions.
Regardless they are both not overly realistic games, but one of them features combat that is accentuated with effects, screenshake and other tricks that make it look more impactfull.

But fine. Im gonna take another example.
Kingdom Come Deliverence.
What would you prefer combat to look like? Kingdom Come deliverance or Dark souls?
The former is probably the most realistic looking combat simulator outside of games like Mordhau. Which is gonna be my next example while were at it. (even tho mordhau is not realistic at all since it features no footwork in relations to attacks at all and is thus about as realisitic as Mount and Blade warband)

>But what if devil may cry
Different visual genre, hence why i brought up Dragons Dogma instead which you chose to ignore completley because its actually a better example than Dark Souls for my argument.


>Jump
well Jump and Dash are the only actions where i already said i agree with your position.
>reactive shot vs XCOM
well, theres anohter comparison YOU made not me.
Theres nothing like reactive shot in BG3 from what we know so nothing we can compare it to.

my compariosn was between XCOM (screenshake, deliberate cmaera angles, visible bullets, impact animaitons) vs Age of woners planetfall (no screenshake no visible bullets)


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Yeah, I “ignored” games that I haven’t actually played. Shame on me. And I compared one of the games you brought up with the latest Larian game. I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware that only comparisons you want to make are valid.

BTW, I just had a look at some Dark Souls footage. Seems there is sometimes a little bit of swooshing effect. It’s quite subtle (except for specific magical weapons) and I didn’t even remember it was there at all. Hardly seems core to the feel of the game to me.

Skyrim though. You have to admit that’s a terrible example to argue that aiming for a degree of realism is bad.

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im not arguing in favor of realism versus not realism.
Im arguing in favor of effects to enhance the expirience versus none.

Skyrims animations arent very realisitc, and no effects. Meanwhile Dragons Dogmas animations are also not very realisitc, but they do have effects.
Dark Souls animations are also not very realistic, but at least much better than Skyrims, tho i dont think theres a game that features dark souls like animations without any effects going on so the comparison s a tough one to make on a completley equal basis.

Games like Kingdom Come id compare to For Honor.
Both have mocapped animations for medival fencing, one tries to go for full realism, the other for hollywood realism but i think you can make the comparison.

Animation wise id compare BG3 most to Dragons Dogma than to anyhting else

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Combat in Skyrim, or the lack of impact in all of the Elder Scrolls games is the one reason i don't play them, I just can't deal with floaty swish mechanics. Awful.

DIablo 3 was the complete opposite, animations and light shows for everything and a complete mess.

BG3 needs to find the right balance. Melee attacks without magical influence should feel impactful, but without being a showy mess of lights and sounds and screenshake other than for crits (all IMVHO of course), and similarly for actions such as dash it should have visual clues but again, less is more for me personally. I am not advocating Realism to the point of visual boredom, especially in TB combat, but there is much to be said for toming down normal actions and egging up the magic where appropriate.

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I think I agree to the person who said normal actions should look powerful but not magic.

When you select dash, the character should have a pose that runners have right before the start of a race.
When you select jump the character has a pose that shows he is ready to jump.
Sorry, my english is not good enough to describe how to move your body, but I guess most of you did run or jump (from standing still) in their life or saw somebody doing it and you know that you have a specific pose before this action.
Same thing for attacks with a non magic weapon.
When selecting to use items, the char could grap into his pockets (do armors have pockets?)

Magic effects can look "flashy", like when you want to cast a spell.
Would be great if you hold a scroll in your hand while preparing to use a scroll.

I think it makes sense to have 2 animations, one for preparing an action and another one for performing the action.
The prepare animation can be a bit "over the top" to make sure it is easy to identify.
The prepare animation has to make sure that everybody knows this char wants to cast a spell, use a scroll, make an attack, dash or whatever.
So you can tell if a char is shooting a fire arrow with a bow, uses the fire arrow spell or uses the fire arrow scoll.
This can be useful in multiplayer to see what other players want to do and in all cases to see what enemies do.

Example for a hypothetical forum discussion:
Player A: I killed the bandits with the fireball scoll dropped by the goblin mage.
Player B: The goblin mage did not drop a scroll. What did you do with him?
Player A: I sneaked on the wall above him and threw a giant rock on him which killed him before he could do anything.
Player B: OK, He used the fireball scroll against me when I was fighting him.


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I totally agree with OP here. Over the top animations for mundane skills steal the limelight to magic.

I understand the desire of making warriors and other non magical characters also special when using them, but please not with lights and particle effects.
If everything is magic then nothing is.






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I think the animations are fine as is. They don't look too over the top to me, but they are noticeable which is the goal from what I can tell. I think especially in a multiplayer atmosphere, it is important feedback. To have visually distinct animations that indicate what a player or NPC use in battle is important. Sure, there are other ways to see these effects, but animations do a good job of giving that feedback without having to search the UI.

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>I totally agree with OP here. Over the top animations for mundane skills steal the limelight to magic.

See this kind of proves what ive been saying.
its not about realism, its all about "Muh magic":

This is was this entire topic is about. How dare the fighter do somehting cool.
How dare it have a good animation.
No! This is a game about wizards!

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Originally Posted by Sordak
>I totally agree with OP here. Over the top animations for mundane skills steal the limelight to magic.

See this kind of proves what ive been saying.
its not about realism, its all about "Muh magic":

This is was this entire topic is about. How dare the fighter do somehting cool.
How dare it have a good animation.
No! This is a game about wizards!

You get my point wrong, it is not about making wizardry be the best and shit on the others, is about making each class unique. I wanna feel my warrior character as a warrior and not as some sort of magical warrior every time shots an arrow it gets surrounded by sparkling lights. But even being a warrior, I want magic to have the unique feeling of unnatural and powerful vibe. Not that when I open a pepper jar some kind of mystical glowing surrounds me.



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Originally Posted by Sordak
>I totally agree with OP here. Over the top animations for mundane skills steal the limelight to magic.

See this kind of proves what ive been saying.
its not about realism, its all about "Muh magic":

This is was this entire topic is about. How dare the fighter do somehting cool.
How dare it have a good animation.
No! This is a game about wizards!


Its not about classes. Every character can run, jump or attack, including mages.
Non magic actions can and should look cool or powerful.
They just should not look too magic.


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since magic doesnt exist thats a bit of a hard one to pin down doesnt it?
Is any exagrated effect on a weapon attack magic?

Are weapon trails magic?
Impact effects? exagrated audio?

I hate this because the very same argument has been made for Game mechanics. "no i just dont want mundane thigns to have the same rules as magic".
but then you realize magic has rules for everyhting and that is the reason theres barely any combat maneuvers in 5e.

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OP has a point, especially regarding the spellbook, which I think it wouldn't be hard to implement and it would look nice

As for the warriors animations, it could look powerful without being too colorful.

BTW, can't wait to see what they will do with monks

Last edited by Rafoca; 26/06/20 12:49 PM.
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Originally Posted by Sordak
>
See this kind of proves what ive been saying.
its not about realism, its all about "Muh magic":

This is was this entire topic is about. How dare the fighter do somehting cool.
How dare it have a good animation.
No! This is a game about wizards!


You keep responding in an angry and demeaning way while constantly arguing against things that no one was saying. You misunderstand the meaning behind what is being said here.
No one here that I can see wants normal actions and normal attack animations to look boring and lackluster. No one here has stated anything that meant that they only wanted magic-users to shine.
What the post is about, is to have a clearer distinction animation-wise between normal actions and magical/psionic/magic-item actions. You can still have weapon trail animations, and empact animations, and combo animations, and spectacular finishers. It can still look just as amazing as magic, but in a significantly different way. The Pushing Attack Ability with it's red lightshow, looks like the character is channeling magic into the attack. That's the thing that many of us here have a problem with. If the Ability is about channeling magic into the attack, like some sort of Paladin Ability, or like an Arcane Archer Abilty, or whatever kind of Ability that mixes magic and normal attack, then that's great. No problem with that. But when it's a normal attack or Ability that has nothing to do with magic, then it needs to look distinct from magic. Otherwise, as someone else said, if everything looks like magic, then nothing looks like magic. Then there's very little distinction, and that trivialises the difference between the normal and the magical. And they are supposed to be and to feel and to look distinct from one another.

Larian is capable of making normal Actions and normal attacks have sword trails and empact animations and cool swing animations, while still looking like nonmagical Actions and nonmagical attacks, and still look and feel amazing. But the demos have shown that they've so far done the exact opposite, which is the reason for this thread.

Last edited by Morcar; 26/06/20 02:42 PM.
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I agree more serious animation would be great...
It feels like to me, that they compensate with big shiny explosions for unpolished or unfinished animations.
UI and icon switch for spells/items would be great, because they are too futuristic.

I guess these will be done in later stage of development, but hopefully they change on the direction a bit.

Otherwise the game looks amazing, in other aspects, like dialogs, cut-scenes and graphic ect...

Last edited by Minsc1122; 26/06/20 07:21 PM.
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>serious
and what is serious?

>Morcar
nonsense. This threads going for three pages now and i know very well what i am arguing against.
>no one wants nromal actions look lackluster
By whose standard? By my standard yes thats exactly what several people here want.

>muh lightshow muh channeling
And thats why i have multiple times in this thread told you to THINK about presentation for a bit.
its not a "channeling" animation, its animating 101, if you want something to look impactfull, then you need a slow windup animation, a fast period where the attack flies and then a heavy impact.
it doesnt matter how anything looks in real life, this is how you get that point across form a visual standpoint, anyone that has worked on animations will tell you this.
I can show you pixel art that does it that way.
The same is true fro what you call a "lightshow", when the character is very tiny on the screen and the background is very busy you need some visual oomph or it will get lost in the details.

to make "normaL" abilities like that look as good as they do with those tricks would require an IMMENSE ammount of work.
basicalyl you would need full collision physics, hitboxes modeled perfectly on the body and the body reacting perfectly to an impact.
Unless Larian is willing to make the game look lik Exanima, you cannot remove these thigns ithout it beeing a visual downgrade.

And just to plactate the needless quest for realism in a high fantasy game? i think not.

Last edited by Sordak; 27/06/20 02:07 PM.
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