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Just gonna throw in my (probably unpopular) opinion and say I've always preferred parties of 4. Whenever there's more, it almost always means more time in menus managing things. If people presently dislike managing four separate inventories, then managing six is just going to be that much more of a pain (and I'm not a fan of a shared inventory either). I thought Solasta played well with 4, I thought Divinity played well with 4. I feel like Pathfinder and the old IE games get a big bogged down with 6. Even if I look at JRPGs, I felt the 5-man party of FF4 was tedious to manage. By contrast, the 3 man parties of FF7 and 8 were too limiting. For me, 4 is the magic number, offering decent strategic variation while not being too tedious to manage.

Anyway, just offering my own view for whatever it's worth. If there's a mod that lets you enjoy the game, I think that's a great thing too!

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Originally Posted by Grainofariver
Just gonna throw in my (probably unpopular) opinion and say I've always preferred parties of 4. Whenever there's more, it almost always means more time in menus managing things. If people presently dislike managing four separate inventories, then managing six is just going to be that much more of a pain (and I'm not a fan of a shared inventory either). I thought Solasta played well with 4, I thought Divinity played well with 4. I feel like Pathfinder and the old IE games get a big bogged down with 6. Even if I look at JRPGs, I felt the 5-man party of FF4 was tedious to manage. By contrast, the 3 man parties of FF7 and 8 were too limiting. For me, 4 is the magic number, offering decent strategic variation while not being too tedious to manage.

Anyway, just offering my own view for whatever it's worth. If there's a mod that lets you enjoy the game, I think that's a great thing too!

Mods are not ideal. I understand what you're saying. We're just looking for an option for party of 6 with true 5e stats so it isn't so easy. Right now, with party of 4, they have to nerf monsters to make it work.

And, I could just be biased, but I actually found it easier to manage items with six people because I didn't have to worry as much about encumbrance. I could pick up all sorts of things and as soon as one person gets weighed down I just start having somebody else be the one who picks things up. By the time I get through six people I'm at a merchant. Then it's just a matter of double clicking on everything to put it in the sell cue.

So that's what I don't understand about that kind of thing. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to criticize your opinion or anything. That's your point of view and I respect that. I'm just saying, for me, it actually seems easier with a bigger party to manage items better because I'm not playing the encumbrance shifting items constantly around game.

But I get that some people just want a party of four. That's great. I just want them to give us the option for a party of six so that those of us who really enjoy party of six can do so.

Last edited by GM4Him; 21/12/21 01:58 PM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by Grainofariver
Just gonna throw in my (probably unpopular) opinion and say I've always preferred parties of 4. Whenever there's more, it almost always means more time in menus managing things. If people presently dislike managing four separate inventories, then managing six is just going to be that much more of a pain (and I'm not a fan of a shared inventory either). I thought Solasta played well with 4, I thought Divinity played well with 4. I feel like Pathfinder and the old IE games get a big bogged down with 6. Even if I look at JRPGs, I felt the 5-man party of FF4 was tedious to manage. By contrast, the 3 man parties of FF7 and 8 were too limiting. For me, 4 is the magic number, offering decent strategic variation while not being too tedious to manage.

Anyway, just offering my own view for whatever it's worth. If there's a mod that lets you enjoy the game, I think that's a great thing too!

Mods are not ideal. I understand what you're saying. We're just looking for an option for party of 6 with true 5e stats so it isn't so easy. Right now, with party of 4, they have to nerf monsters to make it work.

And, I could just be biased, but I actually found it easier to manage items with six people because I didn't have to worry as much about encumbrance. I could pick up all sorts of things and as soon as one person gets weighed down I just start having somebody else be the one who picks things up. By the time I get through six people I'm at a merchant. Then it's just a matter of double clicking on everything to put it in the sell cue.

So that's what I don't understand about that kind of thing. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to criticize your opinion or anything. That's your point of view and I respect that. I'm just saying, for me, it actually seems easier with a bigger party to manage items better because I'm not playing the encumbrance shifting items constantly around game.

But I get that some people just want a party of four. That's great. I just want them to give us the option for a party of six so that those of us who really enjoy party of six can do so.
+1

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It's cool to read your experience and to hear that you're having fun with it using a party of 6.

I have the same opinion regarding mods, in that I'm sure I'd much prefer playing with 6, but am reluctant to mod game for this.

Especially in EA where some rando hotfix could break my install and force me delete folders and redownload everything. A modded game in EA makes bug hunting and feedback feel pointless, since it's hard to know what's a result of resent patches or what's coming from the result of a mod. Had they made this an official option I'd probably have been playing BG3 a lot more these past months. Instead I've barely touched this game since the Summer and the BG3 launch icon just sits around collecting dust on desktop.

During the time when I could have been playing BG3, I've just been replaying the entire Baldur's Gate Saga in EE from BG1 to TOB on a higher difficulty setting, using a Charname class choice and party comp I'd never tried before. I've been playing those games for 20 years and am still finding reasons to return to them with new eyes. I created a series of custom portraits for all the NPC companions and once again the game seems new. Even the EE companions feel more interesting once they have decent portraits lol. In the old games I generally had a core crew of 4 for the long haul, with the 5th and 6th slots rotating out based on the story progression. In BG3 I don't feel like the game changes all that much from one playthrough to the next, even if trying to rock a different path or a different party composition. I've barely been playing it for a year and it already feels spent like that. There just aren't enough companions in BG3 to make it seem like anything is really different from one run to the next and I quickly get bored of it. All my Tavs sound the same, they all end up looking the same with the same outfits in the same colors, and it's the same deal with their companions.

BG3 is way more developed in terms of party interaction than BG1/2 ever were, and yet somehow playing the Original Saga with "Dark Jaheira" dressed in all black and wearing the Helm of Opposite Alignment with a different portrait is still more engaging hehe. Even though it's umpteenth playthrough, the idea of rolling with an evil Bard through the entire Saga had me eager to hit New Game. When I hear the "level up" chime I get excited. When Khalid got merced by the first Ogre we met and we decided to see what it would take to break a Harper in the aftermath, that still feels fun. I'm playing with a party of 5 mixed alignment companions that I never used together before, taking a different route through the game, with different cursed items getting the showcase and generally having a blast. Charming Ursa to have her lay waste to the Xvart village instead of just nuking them all with fireballs lol, stuff of that sort. It set the tone. I wish BG3 was more like that, because I know there's a lot more going on here than there is in the games from 1998-2001, but the small party and the lookalikes all looking alike each time are really holding it back for me.

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Glad we both respect each other's opinions: trust me, I get not wanting to need a mod to play a game a certain way. As to the inventory thing, for me it's not simply what's in the bags: it's managing six character's equipment, toolbars, keeping track of abilities and spells, etc. It's definitely one of those things which will vary by person.

I do have one question though, and it's a genuine question, not a challenge: do you think reverting stats to basic 5e would be enough? I've only been getting into CRPGs within the past 2-3 years, and one of the things I enjoy about the genre compared to JRPGs is that damage/heal numbers are not the biggest factors in winning a fight: without smart use of utility, you'll be pasted rather quickly. I'd think that when you effectively double your party size, your utility would increase substantially, requiring a considerable re-working of just about every encounter.

Or is it simply a matter of taking what you can get? (something else I am -very- acquainted with)

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Honestly, the encounters need reworking regardless. Part of the issue with "open world" is that there is too much volatility. I can literally reach the Gith Patrol at level 2, but I may also be level 5 or 6 by then as well.

I played through the story using tabletop. Did every encounter using 5e stats as best I could and true 5e rules, with just a few homebrew. It played out pretty well with party of 6, to a certain degree. By the time I was going to the Underdark, all characters were level 6.

Here's what I discovered. Some battles are too easy. Some still nearly wiped the party. Gith Patrol, level 5 party, still almost wiped them. Spider Matriarch, only used 4 level 5s, almost wiped the party, but I made her a mage also with the ability to cast Fireball, because, you know, she's an Arachnomancer according to the story.

My point is, regardless, the encounters need tweaking depending on what they're going for. If they want you to have every fight be epic and exciting, the encounters need reworking for party of 4 once level cap is lifted.

So, regardless of what party size they choose to give us, they need to rework encounters.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by Grainofariver
Just gonna throw in my (probably unpopular) opinion and say I've always preferred parties of 4. Whenever there's more, it almost always means more time in menus managing things. If people presently dislike managing four separate inventories, then managing six is just going to be that much more of a pain (and I'm not a fan of a shared inventory either). I thought Solasta played well with 4, I thought Divinity played well with 4. I feel like Pathfinder and the old IE games get a big bogged down with 6. Even if I look at JRPGs, I felt the 5-man party of FF4 was tedious to manage. By contrast, the 3 man parties of FF7 and 8 were too limiting. For me, 4 is the magic number, offering decent strategic variation while not being too tedious to manage.

Anyway, just offering my own view for whatever it's worth. If there's a mod that lets you enjoy the game, I think that's a great thing too!

Mods are not ideal. I understand what you're saying. We're just looking for an option for party of 6 with true 5e stats so it isn't so easy. Right now, with party of 4, they have to nerf monsters to make it work.

And, I could just be biased, but I actually found it easier to manage items with six people because I didn't have to worry as much about encumbrance. I could pick up all sorts of things and as soon as one person gets weighed down I just start having somebody else be the one who picks things up. By the time I get through six people I'm at a merchant. Then it's just a matter of double clicking on everything to put it in the sell cue.

So that's what I don't understand about that kind of thing. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to criticize your opinion or anything. That's your point of view and I respect that. I'm just saying, for me, it actually seems easier with a bigger party to manage items better because I'm not playing the encumbrance shifting items constantly around game.

But I get that some people just want a party of four. That's great. I just want them to give us the option for a party of six so that those of us who really enjoy party of six can do so.

+1. i'm not looking for mods but i like 6 party characters as an official options for those who want this. i don't think it's difficult to implement at all. it's just larian just want to be larian.. doing their own DOS2 formula games. that is why there are so many complaints in every where (not just this forum). if larian just want to keep ignoring the core fans, i'm sure they'll backfire one day for clinging to their stubborness.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
I FINALLY GOT IT TO WORK... but then I had to stop playing for the day. frown

BEHOLD: PARTY OF 6!!! TAV + ALL ORIGIN CHARACTERS
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So, first you have to use the ExtratTool-v1.15.10 as instructed in the Mod instructions. Switch Max Party Size from 4 to 6 or 8. Save. I even used the Extract function and chose the same file folder as the Save I was using. Not sure that's necessary, but I did it anyway.

But here was the step that I had to do to make it work in the end. I loaded up the modified save file, and they still wouldn't let me add more than a party of 4. So I dismissed everyone from the party and reinvited everyone back into the party. THAT'S what made it work. Once I reinvited everyone, suddenly, on the 5th person, VIOLA! No more, "You're full up."

Now I just need to test combat with it. Looks like I'll be starting over my 4 Custom Character game to try it out... or I may just keep going with Tav and the gang! Yeah. I think I'll do that. Then I don't have to dismiss or pull in any characters at all for story content.

Ah! This is great! I can't wait!
All that work and D:OS 3 with a six party mod is still D:OS 3, just with even more sluggish combat.

All said, enjoy. You can't fix what is inherently broken and has next to nothing in common with the originals.

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After testing party of 6 with a few more encounters, the way I see it, there are two ways for this game to go:

1. Larian wants the majority of the fights to be tough, so they will tweak the encounters so that players will have to long rest more frequently, after almost every fight, in order to continue. In this scenario, a party of 6 will definitely lower the frequency of long resting. Fights will be less deadly and therefore the party will have to long rest less. They could essentially move through pretty much most of the surface of EA possibly without long resting once, depending on how good the player is. So, if this is Larian's intent, then yes. A party of 6 will certainly require not only using proper 5e stats but also require adding more enemies to various encounters in order to compensate for the 2 additional party members. Certain fights, however, like the wood woads, would only require 5e monster stats to be implemented. 2 wood woads alone could handle a party of 6 level 3-5 characters. Add mud mephits as well, and it'd be a tough fight. Currently, this fight is only doable with party of 4 because the monsters are severely homebrewed. Either way, if Larian is going to stick with fights that are deadly almost every fight, and they want players to long rest frequently, then a party of 6 will certainly require some additional enemies per encounter for most fights.

2. Larian wants the majority of fights to be moderate to easy with a few that are really tough. In this scenario, the idea is that the players will try to long rest as infrequently as possible. Therefore, they will fight their way through the surface of EA, plowing their way through enemy encounters that more slowly chip away at their resources as opposed to fights that leave them virtually unable to continue without a long rest. In this scenario, the player would be able to clear more of the map before needing to long rest, so it would fit a bit more with the game, actually. You have a tadpole in your head, so you want to sleep as little as possible. You have characters in your party urging you to move your butt to one destination or another. You have a ritual being completed that is supposed to boot everybody out permanently, and so forth. So, storywise, you are racing against a clock, even if mechanically you are not. So, being able to clear more of the map without long resting goes along more with the story. This said, fights may feel a bit too easy as you work your way through. The fights won't all be quite so "edge of your seat." On the other hand, you also would not have as many situations where you have to reload because you lost initiative and the enemies slaughtered your party before you even got a chance to act (I can't tell you how many fights where that's happened to me.)

So, yes, if Larian wants a constant "edge of your seat" experience from battle to battle as you slowly and painstakingly make your way through each encounter, then a party of 6 would require a good amount of reworking encounters to add more enemies, etc. If they want more of an "each encounter will wear you down until you need to long rest" experience, then a party of 6 plus proper 5e stats will do just fine.

All this is to say that three things would be required, in my opinion, to make us party of 6 players happy:

1. Give us the option to play with 4 custom characters in single player mode so we can have, at minimum, a party of 4. This would make the prologue more of a party of 5-6 experience once you add Lae'zel and/or Shadowheart.
2. Give us the option to play with a party of 6 max.
3. Give us the option to play using proper 5e stats and rules.

After testing party of 6, I think these three things would make a party of 6 experience fun, feel more like we're actually on an adventure and not such weakling idiots who can only travel for like 5 minutes before we need to sleep the rest of the day away, and we'd experience all the dialogues and party cohesion that a party of 6 provides. Besides this, if playing 4 player multiplayer, allowing us 2 additional origin characters means that we can still do all the side story quests and such that we would be locked out of with a party of 4 max.

Give us these three things as options, and I think we'd be all set. The "edge of your seat" per encounter crowd would be happy because they could still play party of 4 with current encounters as is, and the party of 6 crowd would be happy because they would have a less "edge of your seat" per encounter experience with party cohesion and a more genuine RPG adventure experience like you might find in a standard tabeltop session.

And don't get me wrong. You'd still have a few encounters that were edge of your seat with a party of 6 and the other 2 options I mentioned above. Again, 2 wood woads with proper stats plus a few mud mephits would be a hard encounter for a party of 6. Ragzlin with proper hobgoblin warlord stats plus his room full of cultists and such would be hard for a party of 6 level 4 characters. Minthara with proper AC would also be hard, along with her goblins and spiders and such. The gith patrol is still brutal, regardless of 4 or 6 party size.

Last edited by GM4Him; 22/12/21 07:12 PM.
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I'm kind of agnostic about the whole thing. Playing 6 the first time through BG1 and 2 was awesome and part of the experience. But I always followed up those runs with small party sizes. I did a couple duo runs, but I never did solo. I definitely never did solo unarmored runs.

It truly seems making 6 an option should not be difficult to implement and still keep things challenging. Sounds more a philosophical decision rather than customer facing.

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Started over with 4 custom characters and am going to see if I can get it to work with more than party of 4. Already tried prologue, and Shadowheart still won't join.

Party of 4 custom and Lae'zel make quick work of everything in the prologue. However, I will say, it's no biggie to me. Prologue goes faster.

I am trying it with more of a "If I was legit there, how would I REALLY act? Would I search everything or just run to the helm,. So, I skipped a LOT of gear and only looted whatever I ran into on the way.

The tutorial was way more fast paced.

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And...this is why I hate modding. Game crashed with my 4 custom characters on the loading screen after you reach the helm. Now, I can't get the dang game to load. None of my saves are working and I have to reinstall the game.

Well. I WAS enjoying party of 6 tremendously. 🥺

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Exactly the reason im still not trying mods. :-/
It sucks when this happens.


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Aha! Back in business. It wasn't the mod after all. It was my graphics card being outdated. 😏

But, that said, can't do 4 custom characters with party of 6 because I can't remove anyone from the party. So it won't let me add anyone else. 😒

Back to my other party of 6 playthrough, I guess.

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So i finaly decided that its time for trying some modifications and i joined the 6 members club. laugh
And its indeed awesome. ^_^

Just note:
If you have problems with corupting your saves, for some reason since last hotfix you need to mod your very first autosave the game makes when you create new character ... any other save will cause crashes. O_o
You welcome. wink


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
So i finaly decided that its time for trying some modifications and i joined the 6 members club. laugh
And its indeed awesome. ^_^
YAY!! smile

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Hello, how do you like the idea of ​​making a 3 people squad? As in Mass Effect
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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Hello, how do you like the idea of ​​making a 3 people squad? As in Mass Effect
Personaly i would hate it just as i hate it every single other game, where you have bunch of followers, but 75% is just sitting at camp/city/inn/shit (i wanted to write ship here ... but somehow i cant force myself to corect this typo laugh )/whatever ... while you are saving the world with chosen few. :-/

The more epic the story is, the stupider it seems. :-/
Especialy when saving of the world (or even Galaxy in Mass Effect, or Star Wars: Knights of the Old Repiblic case) is the goal ...
It seems sad (and stupid btw) that those games usualy involves only single mission where you need your "until now unused" party members. :-/

Dragon Age - Origins:
Attack on the Capital city ... just before final battle you switch you your "second party" and are protecting the city against hordes of enemies.
Great use of other party members ... brilliant immersive story reason for you taking only some followers to final battle ... sadly just this one mission involves that and it dont outweight that the whole time you were "rushing to stop the Archdemon" they were just sitting in camp, yawning. frown

Star Wars - Knights of the Old Republic II, Sith Lords:
Mission on Onderon/Dxun ... you need to simultaneously attack the city and old Sith temple ... so your pick two teams and play then both.
Once again, the only mission. frown

Mentioned Mass Effect 2:
Final suicidal mission ... the only reason you have litteraly FULL SHIP (there is really LOT OF THEM here, and you are still only using 2 whole game)
And all you can see is one more companion doing something on screen ... they dont even allow you to play the other group. frown

Taken over and over ...
I would like to see in the future more games that would actualy understands that we are building a litteral army for a reason and give us more options to use them all. :-/

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 27/12/21 10:45 AM.

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I have two new observations i would like to share with you ...

First:
Originally Posted by GM4Him
But, that said, can't do 4 custom characters with party of 6 because I can't remove anyone from the party. So it won't let me add anyone else. 😒
Have you tryed to altern that first autosave game create?
I deleted my whole save folder, just to be sure (i would on next patch anyway, so no harm i gues) ...
Then i alterned my first (and curently only) save ...
And it worked like a charm.

I met Shadowheart, she joined me.
I met Astarion, he joined me.
I met Gale, he joined me.
I met Lae'zel, she joined me.
I met Wyll, he joined me.

No removing was necesary. wink

---

And second:
I just recently noticed some interesting ... im not sure how should i call it, basicaly i would say "bug" but since it only reaplied original rules, it was more like bug for mod that worked like a fix. laugh
Anyway ...
When i reached the cellar under Blighted Village and i clicked on Necromancy of Thei ... Shadowheart, Astarion, Lae'zel comented on it ... then i missclicked and put it back ... so i clicked it again and this time Shadowheart, Gale and Wyll comented on what i found.

So while this mod potentialy helps you see all conversations, i would dare to say that if more than one companion have coments prepared, game allways pick just some (by some key i dont know i gues).
Wich is yet another reason why i would like to see this option supported officialy, so situations like theese, where mod dont offer us full experience dont exists. frown

---

Its still awesome tho. laugh
Combat become so damn easy i could win it in my sleep mostly ... but that was part of the deal. smile


Short coment on my English. smile

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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Hello, how do you like the idea of ​​making a 2 people squad? As in Mass Effect
[Linked Image from cdn.segmentnext.com]

You can though. :] There is nothing stopping you from running with 3 companions at all! laugh

Fun fact: In PF:WotR, I (like most other people) ran with a full group. My brother on the other hand ran the game solo as much as possible (the exceptions were companion quests and quests that demanded companion presence). It worked out very well for him as he was much higher level than me when we were at the same points of the game. He also played on higher difficulty than I did (he played on Core, I played Standard/Normal), so yeah. c:

I do hope Larian will introduce an option regarding companion exp whenever you want to reserve all exp for the ones in the party exclusively (which would be of great benefit for those who want to play alone or with fewer than max companions), OR if you want to just divide it across all currently available companion-characters to mix and match as often as you like.

Last edited by Dez; 27/12/21 03:09 PM.

Hoot hoot, stranger! Fairly new to CRPGs, but I tried my best to provide some feedback regardless! <3 Read it here: My Open Letter to Larian
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