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Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Annyliese] #673906
03/09/20 08:55 AM
03/09/20 08:55 AM
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Annyliese Offline
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For one it opens the door to 3.5 style racial bullshit where youre a Half ogre half dragon half elf.


Do you have any information regarding specifics on character origins? I don't, but I will admit to not spoiling myself too heavily on the book's content, yet. If you know something I don't, maybe you can sway me... but nothing about what's been said seems to suggest to me that they're doing away with racial identity entirely, or giving players the option to create chimeric monstrosities like in 3.5.

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That realy quick knee jerk reaction because some chucklefucks decided "Orcs are always chaotic evil, thats racist against minorities" on twitter. Fuck man, thats embarassing.


This was an entirely separate discussion. It's not directly related to the character origins, it was a discussion between Crawford and some others on political opinions in 5e. For what it's worth, I have my own problems with the matter. I don't want to get into it, though, especially since it's irrelevant.

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i dislike it. Its bad in Design, its bad in Philosophy and its lazy in content aswell from what ive seen.


I'm going to take this opportunity to put you on the spot, however. What exactly *have* you seen? Because this seems like a knee-jerk reaction to a very skin-deep look at the content, not a legitimate criticism from someone who has inside knowledge.

Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Dark_Ansem] #673908
03/09/20 09:30 AM
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>information
you get to pick and choose pretty much
>entierly different discussion
no it isnt, its the one i started so im fairly sure i get to decide what its about.
>skin deep on the content
Literaly making races not matter?
Literaly races becoming a skin and racials beeing pick and choose?

Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Sordak] #673910
03/09/20 09:34 AM
03/09/20 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Sordak

>skin deep on the content
Literaly making races not matter?
Literaly races becoming a skin and racials beeing pick and choose?


You must have misunderstood me. I'm asking what the evidence of this is. Perhaps a link to the actual implementation?

Originally Posted by Sordak

no it isnt, its the one i started so im fairly sure i get to decide what its about.


Apologies, what I mean is that Crawford's discussion is unrelated to character origins, and irrelevant to a discussion about character origins. I didn't mean to dismiss a separate concern, I took it as you connecting the two.

Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Dark_Ansem] #673912
03/09/20 09:36 AM
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its better you look it up yourself if you dont want any spoilers.

Basically you get to pick and choose racials as you want now.
pretty sure ive seen it on BOLS and 4chan

Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Sordak] #673913
03/09/20 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Sordak
its better you look it up yourself if you dont want any spoilers.

Basically you get to pick and choose racials as you want now.
pretty sure ive seen it on BOLS and 4chan


Okay, to push the discussion forward, I'll post what I do know in the form of a copy/post directly from Dragon+.

Originally Posted by Dragon+ Magazine
Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything includes a new way to customize your character’s origin. This rule allows you to take the ability score bonuses of your race and apply them however you like, based on the origin that you imagined for your character. The same rule also provides guidelines on changing certain other elements of your race. It’s all about digging into the fact that adventurers are exceptional. The race options as written in the Player’s Handbook are Western high-fantasy archetypes. If you want your character’s backstory to diverge from that archetype in significant ways, there are now some very simple rules to make those changes. Many players embrace these high fantasy archetypes. Yet for other players, having their character differ from the archetype is what draws them to that character. And we want to make sure that our rules make it just as possible to take that path as to follow the archetype.


From what I can tell, the intent is that this optional rule is just a method of legitimizing a house rule that some DMs have already allowed for games run in AL, given that the player's PHB+1 includes the AL. To a lesser degree but still important, also to facilitate it without the need for house ruling it - a RAW, balanced-by-WotC rendition.

Given that it is an optional (variant) rule, and that it appears to only be for Ability Scores, something people have been vocal about wanting for a while because of build diversity, I'm struggling to see how this bodes ill for anyone. I've seen no evidence that their intent was to water down racial diversity, and they even made a note that it's specifically for a different type of fantasy that some players may want to explore.

EDIT: to address a specific issue, since this is RAW and potentially AL legal, I really doubt a free feat is going to be on the table for a feature any race can take. Wizards may want to be progressive, but not so much that it ruins the balance they've achieved in AL.

Further, we've seen enough of the statistics in character generation for BG3, to round this back to topic, that we can safely assume this variant rule is not in effect - at least not by default, or not yet.

Last edited by Annyliese; 03/09/20 09:45 AM.
Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Dark_Ansem] #673915
03/09/20 09:55 AM
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I do not know if that´s what you guys are talking about:

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/dungeons-and-dragons-expansion-tashas-cauldron-of-everything

Quote
"Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything adds an optional way of creating a character where players can choose from a selection of traits to create a custom linage. If you want to make the archetypical elf, a hypothetical character Crawford jokingly named “Elfy McElferson,” you can. However, “if your elf skipped longsword practice and lacks longsword proficiency and speaks a language other than Elvish and has a bonus to Charisma,” that’s now a valid option"


https://trendswide.com/dungeons-dragons-announces-new-book-and-fall-event/

Quote

"Lineage” options, which allow players to adjust the features and ability modifiers traditionally associated with a character’s race or species. “If a person wants to play Elfy McElferson from the PHB, they still can,” Crawford laughs. “But if you want your elf to have skipped longbow training, or speak a language other than elvish and have a bonus to charisma instead of dexterity, Tasha’s Cauldron is going to give you the ability to do that – and to do it very easily.”



We have to know how it would be in practice when we have the book, but the way Jeremy Crawford phrased it It looks like the race would become simply the looks of your character since you can change the racial stats, languages and features to your liking.

I have to point out that Crawford specifically stated that you can change things like proficiencies or languages, not only stats.

Last edited by _Vic_; 03/09/20 09:59 AM.
Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Sordak] #674020
04/09/20 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Sordak
For one it opens the door to 3.5 style racial bullshit where youre a Half ogre half dragon half elf.

Also it goes against the very idea of fatnasy races and quite frankly the reason for doing it is insulting.

"This fantasy game has non human species that have different stats, this implies that different ethnicities of humans are .... "What now? different? Compareable to orcs? Yeah the twitter drama pisses me off.
And crawford pandering to those dinguses pisses me off too.

That realy quick knee jerk reaction because some chucklefucks decided "Orcs are always chaotic evil, thats racist against minorities" on twitter. Fuck man, thats embarassing.

From a gameplay perspective its a complete mess.

As for my table im not too concerned as i dont run 5e, but im used to running a very restricted set of races in my games (you get 5, no you dont get dwarves) and i arleady feel bad for any newbie 5e DM that gets a player that created some inhuman monstrosity with this thing and thinks this is fair and balanced.



But lets not kid ourselves. What this book realy does is making you be able to run Variant Human but on any race you want.
So basically any race now will be a skill for Vuman because theres no point in taking any other racial.

i dislike it. Its bad in Design, its bad in Philosophy and its lazy in content aswell from what ive seen.


You're a minority.

Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Dark_Ansem] #674145
05/09/20 11:22 PM
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Even if that were true, it also wouldnt matter and it wouldnt make my argment any less valid.

Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: _Vic_] #674318
07/09/20 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by _Vic_
I do not know if that´s what you guys are talking about:

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/dungeons-and-dragons-expansion-tashas-cauldron-of-everything

Quote
"Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything adds an optional way of creating a character where players can choose from a selection of traits to create a custom linage. If you want to make the archetypical elf, a hypothetical character Crawford jokingly named “Elfy McElferson,” you can. However, “if your elf skipped longsword practice and lacks longsword proficiency and speaks a language other than Elvish and has a bonus to Charisma,” that’s now a valid option"


https://trendswide.com/dungeons-dragons-announces-new-book-and-fall-event/

Quote

"Lineage” options, which allow players to adjust the features and ability modifiers traditionally associated with a character’s race or species. “If a person wants to play Elfy McElferson from the PHB, they still can,” Crawford laughs. “But if you want your elf to have skipped longbow training, or speak a language other than elvish and have a bonus to charisma instead of dexterity, Tasha’s Cauldron is going to give you the ability to do that – and to do it very easily.”



We have to know how it would be in practice when we have the book, but the way Jeremy Crawford phrased it It looks like the race would become simply the looks of your character since you can change the racial stats, languages and features to your liking.

I have to point out that Crawford specifically stated that you can change things like proficiencies or languages, not only stats.


I think its intended to really only be culture features that get changed, weapon, languages, skill and tool profiencies, plus stat mods not stuff like Darkvision, resistances/immunities, keen senses, trance, Halflings luck, ect... , with options potenially tied to different origins (backgrounds).

Of course the Blank Slate Lineage Template is basically a make your own race mechanic, so likely banned in AL.

I agree with the disguisted distain for the woke mob comparing black folks to orcs, or accusing Kara Tur of being racist, but this was largely done before the current cultural mess, so I'm willing to give it ashot and at least the rest of the book is going to be awesome. Although TCoE is absolutely 5.4e, aka the beginning of 5e phase 2 (along with the Forgotten Realms getting Magic the Gathering set in 2021, BG3 & Dark Alliance, and a FR movie, ect...).

Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Sordak] #674479
09/09/20 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Sordak

i dislike it. Its bad in Design, its bad in Philosophy and its lazy in content aswell from what ive seen.


This is what happens when you get talentless frauds infiltrating formerly great IPs. The same thing happened with Marvel and DC.
They are like parasites, they see something is popular and latch onto it, but lacking creative ability they eventually drain and kill the host.

Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Dark_Ansem] #674481
09/09/20 12:30 AM
09/09/20 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem

You're a minority.


He isn't though, we will see the D&D brand hemorrhage money as people actually interested in the hobby find and create quality alternatives if WoTC continues down this path, just like what happened with comic books.
Star Wars is another example of an IP that became a shadow of it's former self due to this kind of bs.

Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Rlyeh] #674483
09/09/20 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Rlyeh
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem

You're a minority.


He isn't though, we will see the D&D brand hemorrhage money as people actually interested in the hobby find and create quality alternatives if WoTC continues down this path, just like what happened with comic books.
Star Wars is another example of an IP that became a shadow of it's former self due to this kind of bs.


The D&D and Marvel brands are more popular than they have ever been in history. Star Wars became a shadow of its former self 21 years ago when The Phantom Menace was released. DC just had a game changing convention that seems to indicate that they are about to finally hit their stride. 😂

Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Warlocke] #674486
09/09/20 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Warlocke
Originally Posted by Rlyeh
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem

You're a minority.


He isn't though, we will see the D&D brand hemorrhage money as people actually interested in the hobby find and create quality alternatives if WoTC continues down this path, just like what happened with comic books.
Star Wars is another example of an IP that became a shadow of it's former self due to this kind of bs.


The D&D and Marvel brands are more popular than they have ever been in history. Star Wars became a shadow of its former self 21 years ago when The Phantom Menace was released. DC just had a game changing convention that seems to indicate that they are about to finally hit their stride. 😂


Look at comic book sales versus MCU, DC and Marvel are in the toilet there, wokeness has barely entered the movies as of now. And since the Kathleen Kennedy Rian Johnson movies it's tanked well below Phantom menace levels directly because of woke garbage.
You can put your head in the sand all you want but the numbers do not lie.

Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Rlyeh] #674489
09/09/20 03:40 AM
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You are correct about one thing; numbers don't lie.

D&D is the most popular it has ever been by a massive margin.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/1...s-explain-its-recent-surge-in-popularity

This link shows a graph and goes into some detail about why 5e had such a surge in popularity compared to D&D in the past.

Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Annyliese] #674490
09/09/20 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Annyliese
You are correct about one thing; numbers don't lie.

D&D is the most popular it has ever been by a massive margin.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/1...s-explain-its-recent-surge-in-popularity

This link shows a graph and goes into some detail about why 5e had such a surge in popularity compared to D&D in the past.


As I said if they start ruining D&D with woke nonsense then it will follow the same path as Starwars, Marvel and DC comics, and other franchises that have. When Disney paid 4 billion for the rights to Starwars they thought it was too big to fail, but after disappointing number on flagship films and losing money on Solo they have scaled down their planned productions massively.
This is a prediction based on a pattern that has continually repeated itself, not a statement on the current state of D&D.

Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Rlyeh] #674491
09/09/20 04:45 AM
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Ah, you think this is the buzzword "wokeness", I suppose I wasn't paying close enough attention.

No. This is asinine, and a variant rule isn't going to ruin D&D for the majority.

EDIT: An addition, because I wasn't satisfied leaving it off with me coming off so dismissive. First, an apology. I don't mean to be so rude, but I'll explain what's wrong with this idea.

This is a variant rule, and the DM has full control over their own game. They aren't making the race variant features baseline for 5e, they're providing an easy way to make racial choice modular rather than rigid. If a DM wants to ignore the variant rules altogether, they don't need to even look at it. If they do want to use them, but don't want to wipe racial identity (dwarf constitution) they can limit what their players can change. There's really no grounds to be a doomsayer over this.

Last edited by Annyliese; 09/09/20 04:53 AM.
Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Annyliese] #674493
09/09/20 05:05 AM
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I don't think that a single variant rule will destroy D&D, I think contributes to it, and if they continue down that same slippery slope of listening to and then hiring out of touch political activists that try to turn it PC then it will. By the time Marvel destroyed itself the comics were hamfisted, bad quality attempts at weird ideological propaganda written by crazies who spend all day making paranoid delusional attacks on the established fanbase.
It's like a cancer, if caught early then the prognosis is good but it can spread and become terminal if left alone.

Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Dark_Ansem] #674497
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Wokeness is an accurate term.
Look at crawford.

You can call him that and hed probably agree. No it isnt kiling DnD, it also isnt helping it. DnD is beeing propt up because its en vogue right now.

Id certainly wouldnt hurt them if the rules were any good.
or theyd be less stupid about woke stuff.

Re: Will Tasha's Cauldron of Everything be included? [Re: Dark_Ansem] #674519
09/09/20 01:18 PM
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I don't know. Will it?


Wilson the Bear: http://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=671944&page=1
Ending EA: http://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=87131&Number=674187#Post674187

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