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Coming from Divinity 2 to this is such a jaring, awful experience so far. For one thing, I find it laughable that the first combat you experience against the intellect devourers after you land is so insanely hard, I mean I had 3 straight critical misses and they crit me, the variance that the D20 system causes is simply absurd, and unfortunately unlike a real game of D&D there is no DM there to fudge the rolls in order to make the story work from a narrative basis, its completely RNG. I know some people might view this as whining but the reality is if you go into a combat, or perhaps even against a Boss, and you have literally no chance because of chaining critical misses then it takes all of the tension out of the game, it just becomes a slot machine to see if you were able to dodge the cursed run, regardless of how many attempts you make.

I am going into the third attempt against these devourers and I can tell that eventually the RNG will swing my way and it will work out, but it doesn't change that this system is nothing but a liability to the game and DOS2 proved that you don't need it. Just my 2 cents so far.

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Coming from BG1+BG2 I can assure you: It was much worse there at lower levels. smile
Be sure to use the consumables you get (scrolls, potions...) - they are there for a reason.
Devs also pretty much confirmed that there are going to be different difficulty settings (I expect stuff like "enemies can't crit", "enemies do 3/4 damage", etc.)

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Im not sure what different difficulty levels is supposed to solve exactly if the core game design is so problematic. Again, I'm just not seeing what exactly the game gains by using a D20 system, it is purely a cost that drags down the experience. Also if the prior games (which were made by mediocre studios) are worse by comparison, I'm not sure what kind of counter argument that is exactly, why not just want a good game in general, and not just a better game compared to trash heaps like BG1/2

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I'm afraid I don't see the problem you are seeing, as the strict adherence to the tabletop ruleset is exactly what I wanted. Also calling Bioware 'mediocre'...oh well.
If you think BG1+2 were "trash heaps", why do you even care about BG3? Play something you prefer. There are many other C-RPGs around these days.

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Originally Posted by endolex
I'm afraid I don't see the problem you are seeing, as the strict adherence to the tabletop ruleset is exactly what I wanted. Also calling Bioware 'mediocre'...oh well.
If you think BG1+2 were "trash heaps", why do you even care about BG3? Play something you prefer. There are many other C-RPGs around these days.


bingo, bango. The goal of this game is to be 5E on a video game medium. If you do not like the experience, feel and playstyle of 5E, then perhaps the game just isn't for you.

Last edited by vometia; 07/10/20 01:17 AM. Reason: bbcode
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I died on literally the first encounter in the second room due to a botched dice roll. You can't get more DnD than this.

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The game maybe didn't worked for you, maybe you was waiting something as close as DoS. For me, the game ideia and mechenics is almost perfect, just needing the corrections and some polish. I love difficult combats, even more than D&D's first levels is really difficult. Did you already combat against an intellect devourers on lvl 1?

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Killed the devourers on my first try, though one of them really did give me a chomping off bite thst left me at 1hp.

I doubt the dice is just a random 1-20 roll and we don't have difficulty inplemented yet.

I think it's been too easy so far. There are even healing potions available. And lots of them.

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Personally the nature of the d20 system is something i really enjoy. I had one encounter where my familiar crit on an imp twice but i critically missed half the fight. I really enjoy the flavor it can bring, occasionally people mess up and it can change the entire time of the adventure.

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Just collect the Cleric and use your spells, so they are dead before they reach you... at least the tutorial said exactly this to me - better to not let them come near you...

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Originally Posted by Tomatotime
I am going into the third attempt against these devourers and I can tell that eventually the RNG will swing my way and it will work out, but it doesn't change that this system is nothing but a liability to the game and DOS2 proved that you don't need it. Just my 2 cents so far.

I don't think RPG is bad by itself. For example, I though D:OS1 combat is superior to D:OS2 - white a concept of replacing save rolls with flat armor number is theoretically sound, I felt it hurt D:OS2 - made it's combat rather dull and repetitive.

d20 rolls can be frustrating though, or boring if they are tune too much against or for the player. It's a tricky balance to nail.

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Originally Posted by Tomatotime
Im not sure what different difficulty levels is supposed to solve exactly if the core game design is so problematic. Again, I'm just not seeing what exactly the game gains by using a D20 system, it is purely a cost that drags down the experience. Also if the prior games (which were made by mediocre studios) are worse by comparison, I'm not sure what kind of counter argument that is exactly, why not just want a good game in general, and not just a better game compared to trash heaps like BG1/2


Lol, its a D&D game, based on a D&D setting, where it pretty much HAS to follow the D&D rules to some extent. That's just how it is. Larian made the decision to bid to make BG3 and part of the parcel is D&D 5e, it isn't a Divinity game, and that's fine.

BG1/2 were anything but trash, they were some of the best western RPGs of the late 90s early millenium... Black Isle/Bioware literally sparked a roleplaying renaissance (NWN trailer says so :P) and without those games, we wouldn't even HAVE stuff like divinity or pillars of eternity or pathfinder kingmaker. Bioware may be mediocre now, but they weren't. Not by a very long shot.

Anyway... most games have % chance of success. the way to look at a d20 roll is it's working in 5% increments instead of 1% ones. The entire game would not be able to be D&D (which would mean it couldn't have been made) without using attack rolls, which are always based on some form of % chance behind the scenes.


p.s. Difficulty would make the fight easier because the enemies would do less damage and couldn't crit you. Also if you're interested, getting three critical misses in a row is shockingly bad luck... 0.0125% chance to be precise.

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Maybe in the difficulty levels they could add a sort of DM control on the dice. Say at easier difficulties you are more likely to roll above 10 or something like that. I love the variance here, heck I died like 10 times in my first 2 hours due to botched roles, but I never felt cheated.

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Originally Posted by malks
I doubt the dice is just a random 1-20 roll and we don't have difficulty inplemented yet.


No, it really is. All difficulty settings will do is reduce enemy HP, take away crits, things like that. The core dice roller will always be completely random.

Back to the OP, I get your frustrations. I've never played a "pure" D&D experience. It always been customized to a moderate degree. For CRPGs that try to do D&D honestly I always cheat so I'm a couple levels ahead or have buffed stats just so I can withstand the variance more. I've gotten a lot of flak for that but it's still fun, still has tense moments, etc. It just isn't as save-scummy. If Larian doesn't want that here, all we can ask for is additional tools. However, the core D&D gameplay isn't going away. That'd be unrealistic given that Wizard's is a pretty close partner in this product.

Last edited by SacredWitness; 07/10/20 04:26 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tomatotime
Coming from Divinity 2 to this is such a jaring, awful experience so far. For one thing, I find it laughable that the first combat you experience against the intellect devourers after you land is so insanely hard, I mean I had 3 straight critical misses and they crit me, the variance that the D20 system causes is simply absurd, and unfortunately unlike a real game of D&D there is no DM there to fudge the rolls in order to make the story work from a narrative basis, its completely RNG. I know some people might view this as whining but the reality is if you go into a combat, or perhaps even against a Boss, and you have literally no chance because of chaining critical misses then it takes all of the tension out of the game, it just becomes a slot machine to see if you were able to dodge the cursed run, regardless of how many attempts you make..


What's the difference between these Intellect Devourers critically you upon rolling a 20, or having 5% chance to crit?
Or you rolling a 1 or having a 5% chance to miss?

I'll tell you:
Absolutely nothing. They're the exact same value.

Changing the gameplay to a hit/miss percent changes basically nothing.

Last edited by Noraver; 07/10/20 04:28 PM.
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Don't anger the dice gods they are vengeful! The D20 system is a love/hate relationship. It is a core part of DnD.

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People who play tabletop will understand: sometimes, the dices are just against you. Just look at the first gameplay reveal of BG3 one year ago to see Sven getting trashed by those intellect devourers, because bad roles. He reloads, and the 2nd time, good roles and he just mops the floor with them. Thats D&D, and I wouldn't have it any other way.


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