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I really think that scrolls should be locked into the classes who can cast it like 5e and that if you cast a spell above a level you are able there is the % chance of it failing. Being able to have tons of revivify scrolls or having fighters / rogues / monks etc buffing themselves with scrolls kinda breaks the point of casters.

Just my 2 cents.

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I'd agree. Just maybe replace the Revify scrolls with something that per "BG3 rules" every character can use. smile
That way, the 5E ruleset remains intact, but from a gameplay point of view, the necessity of reviving dead characters (because the AI isn't as lenient as a human DM might be) is still being addressed.

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I disagree about the class lock for casting from scrolls (I know, I know, but if I want a party full of clerics or warlocks and I am completely locked out of purchasing or finding certain scrolls that would be kinda boring imo) however, I do agree about the fail chance. If you try to cast a spell from a high-level scroll and you're not ready for it, there should definitely be a roll for it. (Except for revivify)

EDIT: I agree with Stabbey below, though, that class-locks for learning a spell should exist. A Wizard should not be able to learn spells from another class list.

Last edited by King Qyote; 07/10/20 03:13 AM. Reason: clarification
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It is likely that there eventually will be class locks for learning spells, so Wizards won't be able to learn spells not on the Wizard spell list.

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Originally Posted by Saridous
I really think that scrolls should be locked into the classes who can cast it like 5e and that if you cast a spell above a level you are able there is the % chance of it failing. Being able to have tons of revivify scrolls or having fighters / rogues / monks etc buffing themselves with scrolls kinda breaks the point of casters.

Just my 2 cents.


I think they should be locked to. If you want to get a character up you should just use a potion, known spell or healers kit to stabilize them at 0. If you die, you should be forced to reset the combat if you want to save them (unless u find a cleric in the world like BG1/2 with raise dead). Otherwise death becomes less and less off an issue if every party member can raise the dead after or in every combat smirk

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I concur. At least with any spell that isn't raise dead... and probably also raise dead. Another thing: why call it Revivify? The spell's name should be Raise Dead. It sounds like a small matter, but if you sum it up with other details like total absence of alignments, no detailed descriptions of either classes, skills or spells, no logs to see the juicy numbers... all things that BG had, and are important TO FANS.

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Originally Posted by Zaemon
Another thing: why call it Revivify? The spell's name should be Raise Dead..


Revivify is a lower level spell, 3rd level, which allows you to bring someone back to life within 1 min of dieing. After that time you cant raise them. Raise dead is a different 5th level spell that has a limit of a week.



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Originally Posted by 00zim00

Revivify is a lower level spell, 3rd level, which allows you to bring someone back to life within 1 min of dieing. After that time you cant raise them. Raise dead is a different 5th level spell that has a limit of a week.


That is true, but does the one minute time limit actually exist at the moment for a dead character?

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well, didn't even know that. Never played 5E. Just 2E, 3E (and 3.5) and 4E. But nice of you to inform me... now I think it shoulkd be raise dead because it does what raise dead does, and also it's the "staple" revive since Gary Gygax.

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I was extremely disappointed seeing that they changed the 5e setrules to make everyone able to use scrolls.
Eventually that will lead up to the whole party casting powerfull spells like another basic action and take away class gimmicks.
I can't see the point of playing a rogue (who can get this ability by level 13) if instead you can have a 18+ AC with a warrior, all the extra attacks and action surge, and the ability to buff yourself and use powerful spells with scrolls. While the rogue can't even get his sneak attack easily once per turn like in the tabletop version (when you get it when you have advantage or when one of your allies is close to the enemy you're targetting), given it now is only enabled when stealthed.

Bottom line : every class you play will eventually end up feeling the same if you're all able to use the same toolsets. Just like in DOS:2, which I didn't like because of that (by the end of the game all my characters were casting the same armor spells over and over which made me cheese through content, but at the expense of having a strong identity between my different characters).

D&D should be about two things : class flavor, and the fact that your class alone can't accomplish everything on its own. That's why you need companions, and the bounds you get to develop with the others players by trying to solve a problem together against the odds, using all of your different skillsets, is what makes the core of the experience so wonderful.
I didn't get this feeling at all playing Early Access. Just seemed to me all the classes had the same flavor and eventually fit the same role.

Side note : giving resurrect spells via scrolls is also a bad design to me. D&D5 introduced the downed state precisely to avoid being either dead or alive. It brings so much tension just when one of your players gets down, like every other player stops what he's been planning to do and just tries to figure out how to help or heal him/her. Giving away Revivify spells to all your group members takes away this tension and makes the death part of the combat just as in DOS:2. D&D5 isn't like that at all. Death should have consequences in the Forgotten Realms.

Last edited by Temperance; 07/10/20 06:37 AM.
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+1 I would very much prefer scrolls to be locked to classes the way core rules of 5e work for the same reasons @Temperance lists. Most importantly class flavor and uniqueness.

As for Revivify scrolls I think that's more OK if translated to some other thing that isn't a scroll. But here as well I'd prefer death to be more prevalent and harder to circumvent. In addition I think that magical item should have a cast time of 1min or more so that you can't just spam it in combat.

By higher levels of play most parties will include a spellcaster with some sort of revive spell on their spell list anyway so to me this mostly applies to early levels.


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5e makes a distinction between magic scrolls and spell scrolls... Revivivy would represent the former and Mage Armor represents the latter.

All characers can attempt to use magic scrolls, but only casters having the spell in quesion on heir spell lists can cast spell scrolls.

Last edited by WarBaby2; 09/10/20 08:15 AM.
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Originally Posted by Temperance

Side note : giving resurrect spells via scrolls is also a bad design to me. D&D5 introduced the downed state precisely to avoid being either dead or alive. It brings so much tension just when one of your players gets down, like every other player stops what he's been planning to do and just tries to figure out how to help or heal him/her. Giving away Revivify spells to all your group members takes away this tension and makes the death part of the combat just as in DOS:2. D&D5 isn't like that at all. Death should have consequences in the Forgotten Realms.


I agree that player death is handled better in the table top rules then currently in the game. But from my perspective, it is much easier and quicker to roll up a new character at the level that you died on and be re-introduced in the story in the table top version then that it is in a videogame. Plus you are locked out so much content and maybe even the whole game if half the party dies in a video game. The DM in a table top can just roll with the dice and adapt when necessary. A video game is much more difficult to achieve the same result.

As for the OP, Classes should stick to their respective spells for their class and not be able to cast every single spell available to them. We have classes that can do in the game. Looking at you Bards. But the rest should stick with the magic provided by their patron. Warlock magic is different then that of a paladin.

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"it is much easier and quicker to roll up a new character at the level that you died on and be re-introduced in the story in the table top version then that it is in a videogame."

I mean, loading a save file is really simple and quick you don't need to make a brand new game from the start if your main character dies. If your the type of person who doesn't load when a character dies, fine, but then that's part of the challenge. Having scrolls that anyone can use is not the solution. Even if the scroll is limited to a class that can cast it their seems to be way to many scrolls. In bg 1 and 2 you could visit a cleric to cast raise dead at the cost of money. In 5e in needs a gem, i dont see why you cant just replace the scrolls with gems and limit it to clerics.

If your going with the line "The DM in a table top can just roll with the dice and adapt when necessary." then you basically asking for story mode from the BG:EE where your immortal. Ask for story mode and dont make the rest of us take the easier route.

That said, i think the issue is creatures focus firing downed players. Its a bad design choice or bad AI. Mont creatures would not focus on a downed character over taking out another party member. I have seen bosses focus downed people instead of hitting a near by lower HP character and it makes no sense most of the time. Sure their are reasons why a creature might hit a downed character, if its a feral beast or if they figure killing the person is better in the moment then it is to focus on the other party. But as it stands is way to frequent and makes some of the creatures appear to be acting dumb.

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Originally Posted by 00zim00
"it is much easier and quicker to roll up a new character at the level that you died on and be re-introduced in the story in the table top version then that it is in a videogame."

I mean, loading a save file is really simple and quick you don't need to make a brand new game from the start if your main character dies. If your the type of person who doesn't load when a character dies, fine, but then that's part of the challenge. Having scrolls that anyone can use is not the solution.


I don't know how many posts or threads you've been reading, but if I had a dime for every time I heard someone say "I just lost an hour or more of progress because I never, ever, save, EVER", I would be a millionaire.

If difficulty is designed based on the assumption that the players will be saving constantly and will never forget and never screw up, you'll have quite a number of unhappy players.


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