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Joined: May 2020
stranger
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I have been a DM for over 25+ years. I am pretty sure the game is not Offcial WOTC D&D Adventure League Rules only. So I think it lines up perfectly. That leaves it open to some "House Rules" and minor tweaks and changes. I agree that the 1d10 Firebolt changed to 1d6 and a 1d4 dot is pretty good at low lvls.. At higher lvls 2d6 and 1d4 dot is less impressive.. VS 2d12 + Cha bonus x2... cough cough..

Joined: Oct 2020
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Areas should always require checks before affecting pcs or npcs.

Cantrips generating the area effect is op. I think if they could do things like ignite oil or grass and freeze blood if cast directly on the surface and not on characters.

I like the surface control, but I understand the sentiment of not having thid become a surface spam mess like dos2. It should be something harder to come by, requiring more preparation and stronger spells than cantrips only.

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Also.. does Firebolt catch things on fire? Absolutly.. "A flammable object hit by this spell ignites if it isn’t being worn or carried". Now catching every surface on fire crazy.. But put enough heat to anything and it will light up.

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Originally Posted by Dontezz
That leaves it open to some "House Rules" and minor tweaks and changes.


The problem is that it isn't minor tweaks or changes; these "house rules" make it feel like I'm not even playing D&D anymore.

Joined: Oct 2020
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Agreed entirely. Firebolt ingniting the target and leaving a damaging surface with no save (even on a miss, which is mind boggling) is way overpowered. As are the other cantrips behaving the same way.

It would make more sense to let the player target the floor to create a damaging surface (with a save), or it only does damage to the target (without setting a negative status.)
It is a very cool idea, but it just breaks the economy if all damaging cantrips auto damage, and create surfaces.

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I disagree to an extent. I think environmental mechanics absolutely has a place in 5e, just not to the extent of DOS2. From the few hours that I've played, there's already an attempt to downplay the importance of environmental strategies and stuff. Hopefully, they'll continue to do that until full release, while keeping environmental stuff that wouldn't be out of place in 5e and still has the Larian feel.

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Originally Posted by tangelo1023
I disagree to an extent. I think environmental mechanics absolutely has a place in 5e, just not to the extent of DOS2.


Not really arguing it should be "removed". It just needs to follow the rules! Here's a great example : https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/create-bonfire

This cantrip creates magical fire with the following effects:

1. Affects 5 foot square. That's the size one medium (human) person occupies on the map in tabletop. So it hits one person.
2. It does 1D8 damage and you get a save to take zero damage.
3. You do not take damage walking through it. I repeat you do not take damage walking through it.
4. You take damage if you stand in it on purpose by ending your turn in it. With a save for zero damage.

They're this strict even with magical fire. Also here's another really important point: https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/grease

In previous versions of the game you could set grease on fire. They specifically removed this ON PURPOSE because it was too strong in 5E.


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Too many surfaces. It's terribly annoying. Makes it feel like DOS3 and I hate it. Also, getting hit with a dagger leaves a blood puddle as large as if a cow exploded at your feet. Why the silly exaggeration?

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I agree completely. Surfaces should be reigned in aka you can only set stuff on fire that can actually burn, you can only create a frozen slippery surface when it's wet, etc., and they all should allow for saving throws.

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Originally Posted by endolex
I agree completely. Surfaces should be reigned in aka you can only set stuff on fire that can actually burn, you can only create a frozen slippery surface when it's wet, etc., and they all should allow for saving throws.


Even though that's still a departure from core 5e rules, I would still rather your suggestion than all the random effects and the ability to use cantrips/repeatable abilities to create surfaces.

Joined: Aug 2020
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As someone who has extensively played the BG series, D&D 5e, and both DoS games, this is one of the primary problems I am having when trying to argue that this game isn't just DoS: D&D DLC.

Everyone, everrrryone knows that the massive amount of surfaces is a primary trait of the DoS series. To the point where you're reusing resources from DoS directly in BG 3. Please, either admit you're developing a game that is only loosely based on D&D but more focused on DoS mechanics, or stop trying to incorporate all of those mechanics where they don't belong. Alchemist Fire has very specific rules, so do Cantrips. You're creating more work for yourself, and throwing all sense of the beautiful balance of 5e out the window, in favor of making a third DoS game rather than a D&D 5e successor to the Baldur's Gate series. Solving this problem, by sticking closer to the rules as you can, would help this misconception tremendously.

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Dorntdc Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Isaac Springsong
As someone who has extensively played the BG series, D&D 5e, and both DoS games, this is one of the primary problems I am having when trying to argue that this game isn't just DoS: D&D DLC.


Yes I defended them on switching to turn based 5E. It's just such a let down that the game is actually DoS:5E though.

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Originally Posted by malks

Cantrips that creates these areas could do so when cast on the ground, therefore foregoing the damage for the effect. I think tjat woulf be a good change. And wouldnt create unexpected situations like burning a web spell.
Adding saving throws to these areas is great as well.

C'mon guys. We already paid for the game. Let's help make it better.


At the very least, I think that
- Targeting a creature does damage and does NOT create a surface.
- Targeting a surface which a creature is standing on creates a surface, but does NOT do damage to the creature.
- The creature, upon starting their turn on a surface, gets to make a DEX save (based on the caster's spell DC) to see if the surface affects them.
- Surfaces or effects tick exactly once and then expire, because it's a CANTRIP.

It's the deals damage AND makes a surface AND they don't have a save part which is far too strong. Especially for things which last for more than one tick.

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No surfaces from cantrips, unless 5e specifically says it does.

Anything else is just dumbing down the game and, more importantly, removes the value a specific character can bring. It removes the investment of having to decide, do you take the cantrip that can make a 'surface' (Create Bonfire) or do you take the cantrip that can do more damage (Firebolt)? I want the game to involve decisions, not one-size-fits all that it is now.

Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
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Fully agree, surface spam from cantrips is what should be removed from the game as soon as possible.

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Problem with guaranteed damage from surfaces is it wrecks concentration for casters.

Every time I move through fire or someone misses me with a fire bomb I have to make a concentration check to keep my spell up. This can lead to 5 concentration checks from my enemies turn through the end of mine with no chance of saving throws or roll to hit me. Just 5 checks DC10 Con save or my spell goes byebye. Guaranteed damage should be limited to things like magic missile or specific powerful effects that still deal half damage on a failed save. NOT from the environment.

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