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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Gustavo R
I agree. This will never change.
I'm totally convinced that Larian thinks they had created a brilliant solution and we are not giving due credit to their geniality.

It looks like something they could think^^
And they would probably add that those complaining are just the vocal minority. Swen never listen the vocal minority.


I was there 3000 years ago... When the Mass Effect 3 ending debacle started. Back then the people who said that the ending was a complete and utter failure was told to be the "vocal minitory". But looking back now, watching videos and reading posts about the ending it seems like most people and even a large portions of gaming media are in agreement that the ending wasn't that good and thought out after all.

So maybe the people who dislike the movement mechanic in BG3 right now aren't such a minority after all. Maybe the amount of people posting about it seems small to Larian (though I don't think it is). But that doesnt necessarily mean that just a small portion of the players dislike the movement mechanics. It's just that not everyone cares enough to post about it. They either just play the game despite not liking the movement mechanics, or just give up and stop playing the game entirely and move on to another game.

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Originally Posted by Peranor
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Gustavo R
I agree. This will never change.
I'm totally convinced that Larian thinks they had created a brilliant solution and we are not giving due credit to their geniality.

It looks like something they could think^^
And they would probably add that those complaining are just the vocal minority. Swen never listen the vocal minority.


I was there 3000 years ago... When the Mass Effect 3 ending debacle started. Back then the people who said that the ending was a complete and utter failure was told to be the "vocal minitory". But looking back now, watching videos and reading posts about the ending it seems like most people and even a large portions of gaming media are in agreement that the ending wasn't that good and thought out after all.

So maybe the people who dislike the movement mechanic in BG3 right now aren't such a minority after all. Maybe the amount of people posting about it seems small to Larian (though I don't think it is). But that doesnt necessarily mean that just a small portion of the players dislike the movement mechanics. It's just that not everyone cares enough to post about it. They either just play the game despite not liking the movement mechanics, or just give up and stop playing the game entirely and move on to another game.

Pretty sure the argument for ME3 ending wasn't "vocal minority", it was "our artistic interpretation choosing how the game should be" was what they held on to until they were forced to basically change it.

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id like to force larian to basically change the movement mechanic currently in bg3's ea wink , but at this point id be content (for the time being) if they just acknowledged that they are aware of the current mechanic's feedback/pain points brought up by the community

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Well I don't know any of these peeps, so of course I'd have no real clue what they might be thinking or care about or not. It might all be pointless sure, or maybe someday Skynet's AI will comb it all over and make a perfect game. I'm sure it's gotta be kinda rough to work all day on stuff, come home to the house forums and hear more grumbling than praise here about certain subjects lol. Or it's certainly possible some just want to get something passing out the door and onto PS5 or whatever, and then run away from D&D on a computer as fast as they can, like seems to happen with every other developer that moonlights with this franchise lol. Its a hard demographic to please. Though I do feel like they could marshal some of the critical energy in a slightly more positive direction with more engagement. The same sort of folks who bang away at forums, also tend to stick around and remain boosters, do the bug reports, write the reviews or the guides or wikis or whatever, mod the game in the afterlife, and hold on for all the expansions and follow up and help improve it over time. But I spend more energy thinking about what an idealized version of a Baldur's Gate sequel could be than engaging with the actual game product in front of me at this point. I just honestly can't get past the UI, camera and main control scheme, despite liking a lot of other things about it. I wish that wasn't so, but it is. That's alright though, there will be other games, doubtless. BG was just a special one for me, so I want desperately not to be disappointed with it, though I think that may probably impossible given the status of the ogs in my head/young-life hehe. I'll probably misty step out on EA just to avoid feeling burnt or adding to burnt feelings, though I'm sure I'll take another look after the full release or when modding opens it up. Maybe it gets there in the end somehow. One can always hope

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Originally Posted by Black_Elk
Well I don't know any of these peeps, so of course I'd have no real clue what they might be thinking or care about or not. It might all be pointless sure, or maybe someday Skynet's AI will comb it all over and make a perfect game. I'm sure it's gotta be kinda rough to work all day on stuff, come home to the house forums and hear more grumbling than praise here about certain subjects lol. Or it's certainly possible some just want to get something passing out the door and onto PS5 or whatever, and then run away from D&D on a computer as fast as they can, like seems to happen with every other developer that moonlights with this franchise lol. Its a hard demographic to please. Though I do feel like they could marshal some of the critical energy in a slightly more positive direction with more engagement. The same sort of folks who bang away at forums, also tend to stick around and remain boosters, do the bug reports, write the reviews or the guides or wikis or whatever, mod the game in the afterlife, and hold on for all the expansions and follow up and help improve it over time. But I spend more energy thinking about what an idealized version of a Baldur's Gate sequel could be than engaging with the actual game product in front of me at this point. I just honestly can't get past the UI, camera and main control scheme, despite liking a lot of other things about it. I wish that wasn't so, but it is. That's alright though, there will be other games, doubtless. BG was just a special one for me, so I want desperately not to be disappointed with it, though I think that may probably impossible given the status of the ogs in my head/young-life hehe. I'll probably misty step out on EA just to avoid feeling burnt or adding to burnt feelings, though I'm sure I'll take another look after the full release or when modding opens it up. Maybe it gets there in the end somehow. One can always hope

This resonated strongly with me. I was tempted to start a new thread imploring Larian to engage with their community to at least explain some of their decisions and also let us know which feedback they are considering...but it felt like a pointless gesture to do so. If anything I would hope more engagement from them would potentially mitigate the endless screaming of the same issues into the void.

For example, I'd love to hear the reasons why Wizards can cast Cleric spells or is it a bug? Why can all classes can use scrolls? Have they even acknowledged the feedback on the party controls? If it's not going to change, just inform us so. I'm probably hoping for too much in that respect.

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Originally Posted by Etruscan
Originally Posted by Black_Elk
Well I don't know any of these peeps, so of course I'd have no real clue what they might be thinking or care about or not. It might all be pointless sure, or maybe someday Skynet's AI will comb it all over and make a perfect game. I'm sure it's gotta be kinda rough to work all day on stuff, come home to the house forums and hear more grumbling than praise here about certain subjects lol. Or it's certainly possible some just want to get something passing out the door and onto PS5 or whatever, and then run away from D&D on a computer as fast as they can, like seems to happen with every other developer that moonlights with this franchise lol. Its a hard demographic to please. Though I do feel like they could marshal some of the critical energy in a slightly more positive direction with more engagement. The same sort of folks who bang away at forums, also tend to stick around and remain boosters, do the bug reports, write the reviews or the guides or wikis or whatever, mod the game in the afterlife, and hold on for all the expansions and follow up and help improve it over time. But I spend more energy thinking about what an idealized version of a Baldur's Gate sequel could be than engaging with the actual game product in front of me at this point. I just honestly can't get past the UI, camera and main control scheme, despite liking a lot of other things about it. I wish that wasn't so, but it is. That's alright though, there will be other games, doubtless. BG was just a special one for me, so I want desperately not to be disappointed with it, though I think that may probably impossible given the status of the ogs in my head/young-life hehe. I'll probably misty step out on EA just to avoid feeling burnt or adding to burnt feelings, though I'm sure I'll take another look after the full release or when modding opens it up. Maybe it gets there in the end somehow. One can always hope

This resonated strongly with me. I was tempted to start a new thread imploring Larian to engage with their community to at least explain some of their decisions and also let us know which feedback they are considering...but it felt like a pointless gesture to do so. If anything I would hope more engagement from them would potentially mitigate the endless screaming of the same issues into the void.

For example, I'd love to hear the reasons why Wizards can cast Cleric spells or is it a bug? Why can all classes can use scrolls? Have they even acknowledged the feedback on the party controls? If it's not going to change, just inform us so. I'm probably hoping for too much in that respect.

Are you talking about Wizards actually learning the spells, or using scrolls? Because I can tell you right now, that will probably 95% not change. Honestly I have no issue with it. I think the whole idea of scrolls is anyone can use them, but depending on your build, certain classes, with certain scroll spells will work better for them. For instance a cleric using a scroll heal will heal a lot better than a wizard using it. A cleric can use a firebolt spell, but it will not hit as hard as a wizard using it etc. I may have missed it, but I never saw where Gale or the PC as a wizard could actually learn cleric spells besides scrolls. If they can actually LEARN the spells, yeah I would be against that. But using scrolls? Not so much.

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A wizard in BG3 can a actually learn cleric spells from scrolls.

I don't like it either.

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Originally Posted by daMichi
A wizard in BG3 can a actually learn cleric spells from scrolls.

I don't like it either.

Oh yeah that is kind of messed up.

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Originally Posted by Black_Elk
Please give us a way to bind the camera rotation to something other than the center mouse wheel and unlock the Z axis for it.

Right-Click or even CTRL click to rotate camera is way more ergonomic, whereas center mouse is like a constant ray of enfeeblement for my index finger.
I can't tell from your post if you are playing through Steam or Stadia. If Steam, then you can change the bindings. I have my camera rotation bound to my right click (Toggle Camera Rotate option.) Can't help you with the Z axis unfortunately, wish they would do something about it as well.

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Good grief that would have saved me so many hours of needless irritation lol. I am indeed playing on Steam, and I have a very distinct memory of trying to set that up in the options more than a few times and giving up on it since it didn't seem to work. Perhaps because I failed to reassign the right click to cancel action/context bind? Or maybe I was goofing the final prompt? Or I really have no idea, but I just it tried again, I swapped the center mouse for right click in each field where they were listed and it worked!

I really can't overstate how much better this feels to me than center mouse to rotate default. The center mouse was hobbling me almost on the level of not being able to invert the Y axis in a shooter game (I'm inverted/goofy there and anything less is unplayable to me) but yeah, I feel almost like I was trying to play the game with mittens on and now suddenly being able to take them off heheh.

Well this might be enough for me right here, to at least continue the Druid playthrough. It's certainly still not my ideal control scheme or cam control, but its pretty amazing how something which might seem relatively minor to some, can be really major for others.

Now if only I could control the camera pitch/tilt!

But at least this way the BG3 cam can work for me on the level of TW battle view. Center mouse to rotate was literally driving me up the walls. Triple checking the forums, finally paying off. Thanks Zarna!!!


ps. I'm seriously over here just kind of marveling at how impactful that single simple change is manifesting itself for me right now. Its hard to describe, but maybe the inverted Y axis thing is a useful analog. Like who knows, maybe if I never played any flight sims when I was young the Y axis inversion would not be an issue at all for me? Maybe if it had never been introduced to me I'd have adapted the other way, or maybe I'd just not like video games at all lol. or any number of possible branches that might have come off that one. But it's too late to change now for me on that one for sure.

I think because every other game I've played that had me controlling a ball cam was right click to rotate. Or I don't know maybe its like Doom or Unreal or Goldeneye imprinting with strafes, and that type stuff that sticks. That I have a certain thing now, that I need in cam control, such that trying to do it in a slightly different way felt instantly unnatural or off putting, and I really do fixate. It's like training to do things one certain way and getting used to it by muscle memory based on other titles or programs, and then having to do it a different way with one hand tied behind the back, all the ughs. So I don't know, but when someone is saying to the devs "hey I really don't dig how this works or how it feels in controls" it could sometimes be a relatively simple type fix that makes a very large impact. Something as simple as a different keybind when I thought it was locked off just made a noticeable difference for me and has improved my attitude and playing experience markedly. Party movement controls might be a bit like that, just on a bigger scale, is I guess what I'm saying.

Anyhow, going to dive back in for a while I'm riding high on this temp reprieve. Thanks again. I swear I must have posted on the center mouse click 20 times, but didn't catch any reply's that it could be changed. Minor miracle lol

Just to further clarify, I right-click with my middle finger, but left click and center mouse wheel click/scroll with my index finger. So I am used to Camera rotation on a mouse being a right click=middle finger action, whereas typically interaction/zoom/scroll is an index finger action. And trying to reverse them legit felt like playing left handed almost.

Also just in case anyone was curious, yes, I also played the Atari Centipede standup pretty backwards stance too with the roller ball lol. But I don't want to get left behind in the new era guys! Controls are so key

Last edited by Black_Elk; 27/02/21 04:17 AM.
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Yeah, changing that did wonders for me as well. My mouse wheel has the ability to tilt to either side (I macro this for dodging in other games) and having to click and hold it to pan the camera was bloody awful.

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Originally Posted by Etruscan
[quote=Black_Elk]For example, I'd love to hear the reasons why Wizards can cast Cleric spells or is it a bug? Why can all classes can use scrolls? Have they even acknowledged the feedback on the party controls? If it's not going to change, just inform us so. I'm probably hoping for too much in that respect.

Wizards learning spells from other lists is a bug and will be fixed according to a reply in the latest patch thread.

Everyone using scrolls is probably a Larian way to make combat more "fun" for the casual market that pays the bills.

I hate the movement system, but I'm 99% sure it is the way it is not because they think their system is better for a CRPG, but because it works for consoles as well as PCs. 2020 saw console market share overtake PC in terms of gamers and revenue and any developer that wants to make money needs to design for both. That's just a necessity of the market these days and it's why I spent more time in character creation in Dragon Age II than I did playing the game. The changes they made to adapt to console players killed the franchise for me because it didn't feel like a CRPG of old to me.

BG3 is the first game since then to scratch that itch, but I accept it's going to be a compromise. At this point I'd be happy just to have:

(A) A toggle switch for all party members to hold position until I explicitly move them,

(B) A requirement to manually leave turn-based mode after a combat is complete so I can both deal with Death Save Thows, healing, re-grouping before allies kill themselves, trigger conversations I'm not ready for, jump off cliffs, set off traps, or GO FOR THE EYES BOO!!!

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Originally Posted by Zarna
Yeah, changing that did wonders for me as well. My mouse wheel has the ability to tilt to either side (I macro this for dodging in other games) and having to click and hold it to pan the camera was bloody awful.
I wish I bothered before rebinding this stuff, because it makes rotating the camera orders of magnitudo more comfortable (and it's something I tend to do often, too, when the game doesn't make it painful).

For a moment playing with this new setup made the controls feel almost bearable... Until I instinctively tried to click and drag to select multiple characters and I remember what game I was playing.

On a side note, I have to say that alternating between this and Wrath of the Righteous makes the contrast even harder to digest.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Are you talking about Wizards actually learning the spells, or using scrolls? Because I can tell you right now, that will probably 95% not change. Honestly I have no issue with it. I think the whole idea of scrolls is anyone can use them, but depending on your build, certain classes, with certain scroll spells will work better for them. For instance a cleric using a scroll heal will heal a lot better than a wizard using it. A cleric can use a firebolt spell, but it will not hit as hard as a wizard using it etc. I may have missed it, but I never saw where Gale or the PC as a wizard could actually learn cleric spells besides scrolls. If they can actually LEARN the spells, yeah I would be against that. But using scrolls? Not so much.

I realise I didn't make my questioning particularly clear but I was asking why Wizards can learn/cast Cleric spells and the next question should have been why can non-caster/magic classes use scrolls? I totally see your points on a Wizard casting a Cleric scroll but far less effectively, that makes sense and feels immersive. Is it the case in-game that if a Wizard casts a Cleric spell scroll that it's not as efficient? I'd be interested to see.

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The problem with this is: cleric spells come from their deities and wizard spells come from the Weave. They are different types of power, at least in the D&D's Lore.

I like the idea that everyone can use scrolls, with different degrees of success. In Pillars of Eternity it is necessary to have Lore skill points, in Pathfinder Kingmaker you must have Use Magic Device skills, etc.

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Originally Posted by Etruscan
Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Are you talking about Wizards actually learning the spells, or using scrolls? Because I can tell you right now, that will probably 95% not change. Honestly I have no issue with it. I think the whole idea of scrolls is anyone can use them, but depending on your build, certain classes, with certain scroll spells will work better for them. For instance a cleric using a scroll heal will heal a lot better than a wizard using it. A cleric can use a firebolt spell, but it will not hit as hard as a wizard using it etc. I may have missed it, but I never saw where Gale or the PC as a wizard could actually learn cleric spells besides scrolls. If they can actually LEARN the spells, yeah I would be against that. But using scrolls? Not so much.

I realise I didn't make my questioning particularly clear but I was asking why Wizards can learn/cast Cleric spells and the next question should have been why can non-caster/magic classes use scrolls? I totally see your points on a Wizard casting a Cleric scroll but far less effectively, that makes sense and feels immersive. Is it the case in-game that if a Wizard casts a Cleric spell scroll that it's not as efficient? I'd be interested to see.

I mean it has in my experience. I don't have any numbers on it, but when my other classes try to use a healing scroll it doesn't seem to barely even work. When my cleric does, it seems to give a larger chunk of health. But I am sure SOMEONE has done actual numbers on it in here lol. It appears the same with damage spells.

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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
I mean it has in my experience. I don't have any numbers on it, but when my other classes try to use a healing scroll it doesn't seem to barely even work. When my cleric does, it seems to give a larger chunk of health. But I am sure SOMEONE has done actual numbers on it in here lol. It appears the same with damage spells.

Fair enough, anecdotal evidence is good enough for me right now. I’m geeing myself to try another playthrough soon, it’s been a few months.

And yes undoubtedly someone has done the numbers; kudos to those who do because my brain is not set up to even contemplate about how one goes about getting that sort of info!

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Originally Posted by Gustavo R
The problem with this is: cleric spells come from their deities and wizard spells come from the Weave. They are different types of power, at least in the D&D's Lore.

I like the idea that everyone can use scrolls, with different degrees of success. In Pillars of Eternity it is necessary to have Lore skill points, in Pathfinder Kingmaker you must have Use Magic Device skills, etc.

This is true and the thought had escaped my mind regarding the difference in how they cast spells.

I did read somewhere the feedback has been noted so it sounds as if they will fix it, which is good news.

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Originally Posted by Gustavo R
The problem with this is: cleric spells come from their deities and wizard spells come from the Weave. They are different types of power, at least in the D&D's Lore.

I like the idea that everyone can use scrolls, with different degrees of success. In Pillars of Eternity it is necessary to have Lore skill points, in Pathfinder Kingmaker you must have Use Magic Device skills, etc.

But don't Cleric spells use the Weave anyway? Which is why Mystra is probably the most important God of the D&D pantheon.

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Originally Posted by Zarna
Yeah, changing that did wonders for me as well. My mouse wheel has the ability to tilt to either side (I macro this for dodging in other games) and having to click and hold it to pan the camera was bloody awful.

Your mouse wheel tilts side to side? That is freaking awesome, what mouse is that?

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