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Originally Posted by SerraSerra
I don't see why they should ditch the current system as a whole
Because it's absolutely, irredeemably abysmal at its core and any attempt to "salvage" it basically requires to dismantle the parts that make it bad, factually turning it into a different system.
Saying, for instance, "It wouldn't be so bad if it allowed group commands and formation controls" is factually equivalent to say "It wouldn't be bad if it was completely different".

The button shortcut that allow to group-ungroup the entire party was a nice addition that made this mess a lot more tolerable, but it's not enough to make it good.

Also, no, "working better on controllers" shouldn't be the design goal at all.
Both because the controller UI/control system can afford to be its own thing (case in point: WoTR basically marries DOS 2 control scheme on a controller with a traditional RTS system on M&KB) AND because some of us (me, for instance) have absolutely no interest whatsoever on playing this kind of game on a controller, to begin with.
So what we want is a better M&KB system, not support for alternate peripherals. These are different topics of discussion.

Last edited by Tuco; 04/11/21 01:08 PM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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I absolutely think the camera is a big part of the problem. It has never been more apparent than in Grymforge. Walls in the way everywhere, I can't target enemies well because someone or something is in the way. It's frustrating. I launched magic missile at animated armor using the dumb thing's picture ini order because of this, and none of them hit. Why? Path obscured. No indication. I couldn't get the camera to work with me, and so my entire round was lost with my MC.

I even tried tactical view. It was worse.

This has quickly become my number 1 issue with the game. Movement and camera is annoying as heck. They've got to fix it.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
I absolutely think the camera is a big part of the problem. It has never been more apparent than in Grymforge. Walls in the way everywhere, I can't target enemies well because someone or something is in the way. It's frustrating. I launched magic missile at animated armor using the dumb thing's picture ini order because of this, and none of them hit. Why? Path obscured. No indication. I couldn't get the camera to work with me, and so my entire round was lost with my MC.

I even tried tactical view. It was worse.

This has quickly become my number 1 issue with the game. Movement and camera is annoying as heck. They've got to fix it.

+1

It is taking a lot of fun out of the game and it's like wearing a rancid pair of crocs with a tuxedo.

Last edited by Ranxerox; 04/11/21 02:44 PM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
I absolutely think the camera is a big part of the problem. It has never been more apparent than in Grymforge. Walls in the way everywhere, I can't target enemies well because someone or something is in the way. It's frustrating. I launched magic missile at animated armor using the dumb thing's picture ini order because of this, and none of them hit. Why? Path obscured. No indication. I couldn't get the camera to work with me, and so my entire round was lost with my MC.

I even tried tactical view. It was worse.

This has quickly become my number 1 issue with the game. Movement and camera is annoying as heck. They've got to fix it.

This is absolutely not related to the chain mechanic.
The camera is totally another issue they'll have to fix.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 04/11/21 02:56 PM.
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That's exactly my point Tucco, they need to develop a new control scheme specifically for MK players while salvaging the current system for people playing with controller. I mean for playing with a controller it's does have some potential to 'chain' the party so that it can be moved with 1 joystick instead of having to move each one individually and use your joystick as if were a mouse... Anyways, i think the camera is def. part of the issue as it is exactly their combination which makes the game really unplayable for those looking for a 'casual' experience (i.e. you can't see what you're doing because of the camera, and the mechanism for giving movement orders also not behaving as it should).

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I absolutely think the camera is a big part of the problem. It has never been more apparent than in Grymforge. Walls in the way everywhere, I can't target enemies well because someone or something is in the way. It's frustrating. I launched magic missile at animated armor using the dumb thing's picture ini order because of this, and none of them hit. Why? Path obscured. No indication. I couldn't get the camera to work with me, and so my entire round was lost with my MC.

I even tried tactical view. It was worse.

This has quickly become my number 1 issue with the game. Movement and camera is annoying as heck. They've got to fix it.

This is absolutely not related to the chain mechanic.
The camera is totally another issue they'll have to fix.

How is it not related? I am constantly turning and swivelling the camera, zooming in and out to try to see where I'm going, where my party is, etc. It's all apart of the same broken system of movement.

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Camera is a matter of view and environment.
The chain system is only about how the game allow you to select your character(s).

The chain would be just as bad in an empty world without any relief and with a better camera... even if obviously, a better camera would make it easier to control the characters in the environment.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 04/11/21 06:35 PM.
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OK. I guess. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought this entire thread was just about how bad the Party Movement Mechanics are, and camera goes right along with Party Movement because instead of using WASD keys to move your main character and have everyone follow, you use WASD to move the camera around and point and click, which is very frustrating and difficult to NOT click on things at random that you don't want to click on. I've clicked on traps by accident, crates, spoons, knives, forks, people I didn't want to talk to or trigger a fight with, you name it. I've run in opposite directions just becausae the camera doesn't point up enough and it's decided to click on something off screen behind my characters instead of moving me straight ahead, I've gone back down ladders and stairs because it randomly clicked on it, and all because Party Movement Mechanics are based on this move the camera with WASD instead of moving your character with WASD.

Either way, I 100% agree to both. Camera and Chain and the whole movement system needs a major fix probably before they do anything else in the game. It's just not good. Companions don't follow the party leader very well, and they are always running around you and doing all sorts of weird things as if they're just confused and disoriented constantly, I've had situations where lots of traps explode and kill everyone because companions are all weirdly and erratically moving everywhere, etc. etc. etc.

And group stealth is annoying as all get out. Gotta select each person separately and stealth each separately instead of one click and they all stealth.

And jumping is awful as well. I wind up leaving companions behind because they won't follow me because it's a jump. AUTO JUMP. AUTO JUMP. If you wouldn't get hurt, just let you all jump by clicking on where you want to go, no button jumping necessary unless it's during combat or the jump is going to potentially hurt you. And if you jump, and you're in Group Mode, all your companions should jump with you. If they get hurt, they get hurt because you chose to make the jump in Group Mode.

And... well... you get the picture. It's just all messed up. Grymforge is awesome. I love it. I think it's one of the best areas of the game so far, but it's hard to enjoy it when I'm constantly getting frustrated over something as stupid as movement controls .

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Shadowheart died last night because of lava in Grymforge. RIP SH. I tried guiding her on safe paths, but she just wouldn't have it. Walked right into a lava bed because I turned and faced a different direction.

🤕

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Lol, my sorceress decided to jump on the forge as the hammer was coming down.

The party control system is the worst feature of BG3, imo.

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Originally Posted by ash elemental
Lol, my sorceress decided to jump on the forge as the hammer was coming down.

The party control system is the worst feature of BG3, imo.

I didn't always think so. I mean, it was annoying, always, but recently it's become even worse. With the addition of Grymforge, it is completely unbearable. It has always been bad, and some areas are worse than others... ahem... the entire Underdark... ahem... but now it's just... yes. It's the worse element of the game.

We absolutely need WASD controls for movement, not camera. Let us set camera controls to something like Page Up, Page Down and Arrow Keys, or something! I cannot abide this clicking around thing. I'm constantly triggering traps and character dialogues, and STEALING things I never meant to steal and then getting into fights and having to reload because of it, and so on and so forth all because I'm trying to click on the darn space I want to click on and something or someone is getting in the way.

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Because following a long Larian tradition if there's a way to make abysmal party controls even worse is pairing them with basically omnipresent environmental hazards, of course.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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Originally Posted by Tuco
Because following a long Larian tradition if there's a way to make abysmal party controls even worse is pairing them with basically omnipresent environmental hazards, of course.

That reminds me, I think part of the reason why people don't seem to care or realize how bad the controls are is because DOS2 had very little in the way of overworld puzzles, or you could cheese them all with the multitude of teleportation-style skills in that game. Overworld hazards don't really exist in BG3 yet outside of a select few situations, though I haven't played Grymforge yet and it sounds like it's as awful as expected there.

I remember it being absolute hell in DOS1, which had puzzles and environmental hazards out the ass, usually of the instant kill everything blows up variety for even a single party member stubbing their toe on something they shouldn't have. I remember constantly unchaining and rechaining towards the second half of the game especially. That game also had immediate game overs if your two main characters died, even if the other two party members were still up.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 12/11/21 08:56 PM.
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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
though I haven't played Grymforge yet and it sounds like it's as awful as expected there.

I've played through Grymforge several times, and there's nothing awful about the movement.

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I've been having no end of trouble. I'm trying to jump around on these tiny platforms to avoid fiery deaths, and my companions just jump right onto the fire zones and get set on fire.

Shadowheart ran into the middle of the forge where the hammer drops and kills people... for no reason... right as I threw the switch to drop the hammer.

I'm just moving down a hall, holding the mouse button, and my cursor accidentally highlights over one of the duegar. Suddenly, I'm in conversation with him.

I go to try to click on a trap with Astarion in order to disable the trap, and I accidentally click on Lae'zel, sparking a convo, because she got in my way. I come out of the convo and she triggers the trap by running into it, blowing us up.

Shadowheart is following my MC as we leap over lava. Then she jumps in and dies.

Over and over again, it's bad.

And there have been so many times I've left companions behind because, for some reason, they just decide not to follow anymore.

It's bad. Real bad. Worse than ever, actually.

Last edited by GM4Him; 12/11/21 10:59 PM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
I've been having no end of trouble. I'm trying to jump around on these tiny platforms to avoid fiery deaths, and my companions just jump right onto the fire zones and get set on fire.

Shadowheart ran into the middle of the forge where the hammer drops and kills people... for no reason... right as I threw the switch to drop the hammer.

I'm just moving down a hall, holding the mouse button, and my cursor accidentally highlights over one of the duegar. Suddenly, I'm in conversation with him.

I go to try to click on a trap with Astarion in order to disable the trap, and I accidentally click on Lae'zel, sparking a convo, because she got in my way. I come out of the convo and she triggers the trap by running into it, blowing us up.

Shadowheart is following my MC as we leap over lava. Then she jumps in and dies.

Over and over again, it's bad.

And there have been so many times I've left companions behind because, for some reason, they just decide not to follow anymore.

It's bad. Real bad. Worse than ever, actually.

Something is WAY different with your game than mine. I'm not having any of these problems.

I haven't had characters jump into the lava at all, not even once. I'll start an accidental conversation occasionally, but it really is rare, and it's always just me mis-clicking.

Hearing what you're saying, it's almost like we're playing two different games.

ETA: I wonder if it's a Patch issue between Steam and Stadia.

Last edited by JandK; 12/11/21 11:48 PM.
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Nah. It's always happened. Just not as bad as the Underdark and Grymforge.

The point is that the current system leaves too much room for these shinanigans. We need better movement controls or something especially for when you zoom in. Zoomed out isn't as bad for point and click, but zoomed in is atrocious.

And regardless, the characters are always bounding around doing their own things half the time.

And camera controls... I need to be able to tilt up more. Half the time I can't see things.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Nah. It's always happened. Just not as bad as the Underdark and Grymforge.

The point is that the current system leaves too much room for these shinanigans. We need better movement controls or something especially for when you zoom in. Zoomed out isn't as bad for point and click, but zoomed in is atrocious.

And regardless, the characters are always bounding around doing their own things half the time.

And camera controls... I need to be able to tilt up more. Half the time I can't see things.

If that's the case, then why am I not having these problems?

And why are so many people streaming the game having an experience that's a lot smoother than what you're describing?

ETA: Although the camera is tricky when it comes to things up high. It's doable. It takes a little getting used to, but it's definitely tricky and could be better, imo.

Last edited by JandK; 13/11/21 12:04 AM.
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There is a better way to control your party. It's a tried and true method that has been in some of the best crpg's for decades.
But no, Larian loves the toilet chain...

Last edited by Peranor; 17/11/21 06:56 PM.
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Originally Posted by Peranor
There is a better way to control your party. It's a tried and true method that has been in some of the best crpg's for decades.
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