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Just as a side note, I can't believe how many comments there are saying that WotC choosing Larian means they are the absolute best choice to make a BG3. I mean, modern WotC thinks orcs being used as enemies is racist. I have no faith in modern WotC due to such idiocy.

I do have faith in Larian, but I also acknowledge that there are design decisions and lore reasons that make this game's title of BG3 inappropriate. This isn't BG3 and never could be, it is a game set in Baldur's Gate, but it is not a continuation of the story because the story is done and it is not a continuation of the game series because the mechanics are vastly different, the gameplay style is vastly different and the writing style is different. Any continuation of a game series does not include sweeping changes to core aspects of the experience. A Mario Kart game with no racing is not a Mario Kart game. A Call of Duty game with no guns is not a Call of Duty game.

The title BG3 brings certain things to mind. RTwP is one of those, the Bhaalspawn is another, large scale combat is another, a large and diverse cast of potential party members is another, D&D rules is another. Like it or not, using this title brings certain expectations, and Larian should be doing their best to meet those expectations and improving and innovating where appropriate, not dropping them in favour of their own preferences and the preferences of the established DOS fanbase (which also includes me to be clear). Making a game that drops almost all the defining features of a series, with no story connection, is not making a sequel.

This is not BG3 it is Baldur's Gate: Ceremorphosis. Which i'm sure I will enjoy plenty (after some modding at least).

So far, despite all claims otherwise, there is only 1 game that has felt like a true spiritual successor to BG, and that is Pillars, although I feel NWN2 came pretty close to replicating many aspects while updating visuals and gameplay (it had its problems, but it absolutely does not deserve the hate it gets and with MotB it is likely my favourite D&D game since ToB in terms of the singleplayer experience).

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Yeah WoTC is, honestly, a pretty bad company that doesn't really understand why DnD fans like DnD in the first place. That's why that made 4th and 5th editions in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Malkie


This is not BG3 it is Baldur's Gate: Ceremorphosis. Which i'm sure I will enjoy plenty (after some modding at least).




and in 2 or 3 years, when this goes on sales for $29 or less and community mods are at hand to bring back that BG feel; I am 95% likely to repurchase the title. What they (Larian et al) don't get, is my $60 for MY not gettin a game experience that at least addresses my expectations.

(and can you fanbois please STFU with your "it's EA what did you expect" nonsense? We all know it's EA and none of us expected a complete and 100% functional gaming epxerience.)

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Originally Posted by WarChiefZeke
Yeah WoTC is, honestly, a pretty bad company that doesn't really understand why DnD fans like DnD in the first place. That's why that made 4th and 5th editions in the first place.



3.5 > AD&D > 5 > 4

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Originally Posted by Jharryl
Originally Posted by Malkie


This is not BG3 it is Baldur's Gate: Ceremorphosis. Which i'm sure I will enjoy plenty (after some modding at least).




and in 2 or 3 years, when this goes on sales for $29 or less and community mods are at hand to bring back that BG feel; I am 95% likely to repurchase the title. What they (Larian et al) don't get, is my $60 for MY not gettin a game experience that at least addresses my expectations.

(and can you fanbois please STFU with your "it's EA what did you expect" nonsense? We all know it's EA and none of us expected a complete and 100% functional gaming epxerience.)


Wait, re-purchase? So you spent less than time playing an early access game than Steam's 2-hour refund policy allows for?
Clearly, all of your points are coming from a very informed and reasonable place. smirk


I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought.

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Got to admit I don't like the overuse of things like exploding barrels etc - not something I have seen used much if at all in campaigns or in any other D&D game. Similarly lingering effects from spells that shouldn't have lingering effects like fireball etc, or acid arrows. Fine for their previous game but think it should be used sparingly in this one.

The other thing that truly annoys me is the number of containers laying about - most of which have little or nothing in them but because they occasionally do have something useful you feel you need to search everything! Its something that i didn't like in their previous games and I think doesn't fit in with this one at all, I'd much rather have drastically fewer chests/vases etc with more in them.

Don't know enough about 5th Edition to know how true to the ruleset it is but then many of the previous D&D computer games had to make a lot of adjustments to allow them to work as a computer game. And i prefer the style of the artwork in this one to previous Larian Games, less cartoony and bit more realistic, particularly the armour!

So yes, not the adaptation i was hoping for but enjoyable, would be more enjoyable if they didn't feel the need to use/overuse some of the systems that were in their previous games such as the exploding barrels and environmental effects.

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Originally Posted by Malkie
Originally Posted by WarChiefZeke
Yeah WoTC is, honestly, a pretty bad company that doesn't really understand why DnD fans like DnD in the first place. That's why that made 4th and 5th editions in the first place.



3.5 > AD&D > 5 > 4



3.5 was the pinnacle of customization. The worldbuilding of 2e was unmatched. 4th and 5th have the virtues of being casul and PnP-newbie-friendly at the expense of the good aspects of the previous editions.

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Originally Posted by WarChiefZeke
Originally Posted by Malkie
Originally Posted by WarChiefZeke
Yeah WoTC is, honestly, a pretty bad company that doesn't really understand why DnD fans like DnD in the first place. That's why that made 4th and 5th editions in the first place.



3.5 > AD&D > 5 > 4



3.5 was the pinnacle of customization. The worldbuilding of 2e was unmatched. 4th and 5th have the virtues of being casul and PnP-newbie-friendly at the expense of the good aspects of the previous editions.



Planescape is still my favourite setting. Mechanics though 3.5 is by far the best, at least 5 attempted to reintroduce some of the 3.5 stuff even if it is massively simplified..... 4 was just woeful in every way. Although I have to admit, some aspects of 3.5 were needlessly fluffed up and convoluted.

Last edited by Malkie; 09/10/20 12:31 AM.
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2E was superb. Ease of play and ease of world building. Micro-management was "abstracted" and unnecessary. I saw the writing on the walls as to what was coming, when the Wilderness Survival Guide came out, with hit point affects from temperature, wind chill etc. That was when our group broke up and we quit playing the game.

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Wow, could the OP be any more wrong in a single post?
For starters, the idea that Larian had no faith in a DOS 3 is patently ridiculous. The previous 2 titles sold gangbusters, & have overwhelmingly positive reviews on Steam & Metacritic. So a DOS 3 would have been like printing money

Secondly, the game is in early access.....with version 1.0 being about a year away.....so I am not remotely surprised that some DOS placeholders are still in the game. Yet clearly this is offensive to the OP....after a measly 85 minutes?!?! (Seriously, I was still on the Nautoloid at the 85 minute mark).

Please call yourself what you are, OP: a toxic, attention seeking would-be "gate-keeper" of the D&D/Baldur's Gate lore.

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and yet another sanctimonious jackass has joined the party

Last edited by Jharryl; 09/10/20 01:17 AM.
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Originally Posted by Jharryl
and yet another sanctimonious jackass has joined the party


Huh? I got here hours ago!

... Ooohhh, you mean Marc. Honestly, I don't care about any abundance - or lack of - sanctity here; I care about good arguments.

Now, saying that you spent 85 minutes to get off the nautiloid? That does not help one's argument. Besides, you don't have to get very far at all to gleam the glaring design flaws in the game.

And of course everyone knows the game is in EA. That's why many of the complaints on this forum are being aimed at the design philosophy and not the bugs or lack of content. And the fact that it's in EA is an argument in favor of complaining - there's still time to change things!

Last edited by Deemer; 09/10/20 01:27 AM.
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Glaring design flaws? Citation needed I think, Deemer? 4 hours into the game & I have noticed no issues outside of a few minor graphical glitches. Fact is that instead of providing a rational, well-reasoned argument with suggestions for how to make improvements, the OP instead goes off on a long-winded rant about how he hates the game & has refunded his EA copy (which is a fairly self-defeating tactic, to be honest) after a measley 85 minutes. The fact he is still in the forums, acting as Gate-keeper for all things D&D, only further confirms the OP as an attention seeking troll, with nothing of value to add to the discussion. Being called a "sanctimonious jackass" by an attention seeking troll is actually pretty LOL funny 😆

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Originally Posted by Deemer
Originally Posted by Jharryl
and yet another sanctimonious jackass has joined the party


Huh? I got here hours ago!

... Ooohhh, you mean Marc. Honestly, I don't care about any abundance - or lack of - sanctity here; I care about good arguments.

Now, saying that you spent 85 minutes to get off the nautiloid? That does not help one's argument. Besides, you don't have to get very far at all to gleam the glaring design flaws in the game.

And of course everyone knows the game is in EA. That's why many of the complaints on this forum are being aimed at the design philosophy and not the bugs or lack of content. And the fact that it's in EA is an argument in favor of complaining - there's still time to change things!


So claiming I took 85 minutes to get off the Nautiloid (its not as though I was actually keeping track, so might be an exaggeration) makes my comments invalid, yet the OP's little tantrum after only 85 minutes of game-play is valid? Especially a tantrum so full of blatant falsehoods (like the claim that Larian had no faith in a DOSIII 😆) Pull the other one, it plays Jingle Bells.

Last edited by MarcHicks; 09/10/20 01:54 AM. Reason: Spelling error
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Originally Posted by MarcHicks
Glaring design flaws? Citation needed I think, Deemer? 4 hours into the game & I have noticed no issues outside of a few minor graphical glitches. Fact is that instead of providing a rational, well-reasoned argument with suggestions for how to make improvements, the OP instead goes off on a long-winded rant about how he hates the game & has refunded his EA copy (which is a fairly self-defeating tactic, to be honest) after a measley 85 minutes. The fact he is still in the forums, acting as Gate-keeper for all things D&D, only further confirms the OP as an attention seeking troll, with nothing of value to add to the discussion. Being called a "sanctimonious jackass" by an attention seeking troll is actually pretty LOL funny 😆


God, where to start?

- Everyone gets the bonus actions that are normally only available to rogues, and Attacks of Opportunity are now pointless when everyone can disengage essentially for free
- Cantrips create surface effects, so you can cover the battlefield in infinite ice, fire, and acid as a level one wizard
- Every single fight in the game can be cheesed and exploited by any class by abusing hiding, carrying barrels of oil around in their backpacks, and other goofy stuff
- Rogues have been changed to be unable to sneak attack with their offhand, which means you only get one shot per round
- Casters have been changed to be able to cast spells and attack with their offhand weapon, or cast two spells in a turn in some cases, which gives them better innate single-target DPS options than rogues... the quintessential single-target DPS class
- Rogues and fighters are drastically outclassed due to nonsensical balance changes including those above and the only reason they can hold their weight at all is that everyone gets free access to spellcasting through scrolls
- Although I guess that also means that rogues and warriors are technically more powerful than wizards could ever be, since they can cast spells using heavy armor so long as you've got some gold now
- I've run into several instances where basic social checks have taken between 2 and 4(!!!) sequential dice rolls to get the result you should have had to roll for just once. If this happened at a table, I'd start chucking my dice at the GM's face

Anyhow, these things can all be fixed, but the fact that they're in the game at all warrant an endless rattling cacophony of complaints in this forum until they're acknowledged or dealt with.

That's what early access is supposedly for, right?



Last edited by Deemer; 09/10/20 02:12 AM.
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It's too early to judge the game, if there will be an allignment system or an 8 leg monk... we will see... it will be fine, stuff gets implemented.

Last edited by Yezam; 09/10/20 02:12 AM.
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Originally Posted by Deemer
Originally Posted by MarcHicks
Glaring design flaws? Citation needed I think, Deemer? 4 hours into the game & I have noticed no issues outside of a few minor graphical glitches. Fact is that instead of providing a rational, well-reasoned argument with suggestions for how to make improvements, the OP instead goes off on a long-winded rant about how he hates the game & has refunded his EA copy (which is a fairly self-defeating tactic, to be honest) after a measley 85 minutes. The fact he is still in the forums, acting as Gate-keeper for all things D&D, only further confirms the OP as an attention seeking troll, with nothing of value to add to the discussion. Being called a "sanctimonious jackass" by an attention seeking troll is actually pretty LOL funny 😆


God, where to start?

- Everyone gets the bonus actions that are normally only available to rogues, and Attacks of Opportunity are now pointless when everyone can disengage essentially for free
- Cantrips create surface effects, so you can cover the battlefield in infinite ice, fire, and acid as a level one wizard
- Every single fight in the game can be cheesed and exploited by any class by abusing hiding, carrying barrels of oil around in their backpacks, and other goofy stuff
- Rogues have been changed to be unable to sneak attack with their offhand, which means you only get one shot per round
- Wizards have been changed to be able to cast spells and attack with their offhand weapon, or cast two spells in a turn, which gives them better innate single-target DPS options than rogues... the quintessential single-target DPS class
- Rogues and fighters are drastically outclassed due to nonsensical balance changes including those above and the only reason they can hold their weight at all is that everyone gets free access to spellcasting through scrolls
- Although I guess that also means that rogues and warriors are technically more powerful than wizards could ever be, since they can cast spells using heavy armor so long as you've got some gold now
- I've run into several instances where basic social checks have taken between 2 and 4(!!!) sequential dice rolls to get the result you should have had to roll for just once. If this happened at a table, I'd start chucking my dice at the GM's face

Anyhow, these things can all be fixed, but the fact that they're in the game at all warrant an endless rattling cacophony of complaints in this forum until they're acknowledged or dealt with.

That's what early access is supposedly for, right?




Most people manage to do it in a rational & adult fashion-the complete opposite of the OP. So my comment still stands.

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Originally Posted by MarcHicks
Most people manage to do it in a rational & adult fashion-the complete opposite of the OP. So my comment still stands.


The game is an imbalanced mess that resembles Divinity: Original Sin MUCH more closely than it resembled Baldur's Gate, so the OP's point still stands as well.

Last edited by Deemer; 09/10/20 02:18 AM.
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Originally Posted by Deemer
Originally Posted by MarcHicks
Most people manage to do it in a rational & adult fashion-the complete opposite of the OP. So my comment still stands.


The game is an imbalanced mess that resembled Divinity: Original Sin MUCH more closely than it resembled Baldur's Gate, so the OP's point still stands as well.


As someone who has played both games, I can catagorically claim that his point doesn't stand at all.....& claiming he has refunded his copy of the game is the self-defeating behaviour of a 2 year old. The fact you're defending him leaves me with the suspicion that you're also a toxic gate-keeper.


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Originally Posted by MarcHicks
Originally Posted by Deemer
Originally Posted by MarcHicks
Most people manage to do it in a rational & adult fashion-the complete opposite of the OP. So my comment still stands.


The game is an imbalanced mess that resembled Divinity: Original Sin MUCH more closely than it resembled Baldur's Gate, so the OP's point still stands as well.


As someone who has played both games, I can catagorically claim that his point doesn't stand at all.....& claiming he has refunded his copy of the game is the self-defeating behaviour of a 2 year old. The fact you're defending him leaves me with the suspicion that you're also a toxic gate-keeper.



You can appeal to ethos all you want, but it's logos that makes a true argument.

Speaking of logos: The game's logo is arranged more like the Divinity Original Sin 2 logo, with the number centered below the title, than it is like any of the Baldur's Gate logos, with the number included along with the words. In fact, the symbol of Bhaal, which is probably the single most identifiable symbol in the entire Baldur's Gate trilogy, is nowhere to be seen anywhere in the branding, the game world, OR the UI. The aesthetic of the old game branding and menus is not represented at all, in fact - can you state a single example where it is?

The loading screens are arranged pretty much exactly like Divinity loading screens. The in-game UI looks uncannily similar to the UI in the Divinity games. The traps are all copy pasted out of the Divinity games. Every spell leaves a wild elemental mess on the floor like in Divinity. All of the companions we've been introduced to so far look like they would be far more at home in Fort Joy than they would be in Faerun, but that's appropriate, because the starting area looks just like Fort Joy!

Last edited by Deemer; 09/10/20 02:35 AM.
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