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I'm talking unique dialogue options, differences in starting items (Criminals getting a couple lockpicks so that they can use them for example) (Speaking of criminal if you're removing theives' tools one of their proficiencies should be moved over to Sleight of Hand), the ability to choose a Deity and have dialogue options related to them for the Acolyte, and for both Acolytes and Clerics each god should have a few text options spread through the game so that it actually comes up.




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To add another specific example to this, why the heck does a noble not have any dialogue options in interactions with the vampire dude? Or scholar with the wizard, starting from that shared experience, you know?

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Originally Posted by Elvenoob
To add another specific example to this, why the heck does a noble not have any dialogue options in interactions with the vampire dude? Or scholar with the wizard, starting from that shared experience, you know?

Yeah, my first character was a noble, and when Astarion told me, "Oh, you're from Baldur's Gate too? We must move in...different circles." I felt legitimately offended and wanted some Noble dialogue tag to shut him up.

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Agree. The dialogue so far has honestly been pretty lackluster and background specific dialogue options would spice things up.

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I've only seen two background things really handledwell so far.

Cleric class and Drow background. Everything else has felt lackluster

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Originally Posted by Arthellion
I've only seen two background things really handledwell so far.

Cleric class and Drow background. Everything else has felt lackluster


That's not actual Background stuff though, that's class and race. I don't think I've seen anything related to your background in this game yet. It also makes it weird when you can have an Outlander background but you're still from Baldur's Gate. Curious how they are actually going to incorporate (and they really should) your background into the dialogue/quests.

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I feel there should be some passive or universal background options outside of dialog such as clan crafter getting support from guild mates, criminals getting thieves cant dialogs and perception checks, or a noble obscure or otherwise get some get out of jail free cards in certain events. Just something to make it seem like characters see the world differently and the world treats them differently as a result.

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Originally Posted by dreambled
Originally Posted by Arthellion
I've only seen two background things really handledwell so far.

Cleric class and Drow background. Everything else has felt lackluster


That's not actual Background stuff though, that's class and race. I don't think I've seen anything related to your background in this game yet. It also makes it weird when you can have an Outlander background but you're still from Baldur's Gate. Curious how they are actually going to incorporate (and they really should) your background into the dialogue/quests.



True. I'm just saying none of the character creation stuff is really effecting story.

Larian really needs to focus more on their custom origins...spend less time trying to make these other Origins playable and more making the "your character" important.

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Swen talked about it in Panel From Hell. They intended to make backgrounds impactful, but after some time realized it would require some very specific background. He brought up an example of a writer asking "ok, but how did the character become a Folk Hero? What kind of Folk Hero? What was the character's heroic deed?" or something along the lines. I'm as bummed about backgrounds not mattering for the story as everyone else, but I do see their point here. They'd need to shoehorn custom characters into very specific backstories for dialogue options to make sense and not feel suspiciously broad. And most people would probably prefer their characters to have exactly the stories they've made for them and not be forced into a background they might dislike. So for example: they'd have to make you a Noble of a specific family to be able to create a compelling story/dialogue around it. And at this point it's getting close to DA:O-style origins, a lot of work and, as I mentioned, becomes limiting freedom in backstory. "Custom" and "reactive" don't play particularly nice together, unfortunately.

Though I suppose they could make it... vestigial/low-key but present? It would still be nice. Like being able to make a pompous answer as a Noble, express being uneasy in a city as an Outlander or mention familiarity with hard life on the streets as an Urchin. Small, generic stuff, but still a bit of background acknowledgement.

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Well, when I'm thinking of backstories done right, Mass Effect comes to mind, you had 3 unique backgrounds (if I remember correctly, it's not like I'm gonna be replaying Mass Effect anytime soon with BG3 holding the keys to my addiction right now), anyway, you should've been a sole survivor, have family or be an orphan, and these choices would be mentioned, not too often but still. Now, how old Mass Effects are? 10+ yrs old, and I really hate using this cliche argument, but if such an old game could do it...

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Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Swen talked about it in Panel From Hell. They intended to make backgrounds impactful, but after some time realized it would require some very specific background. He brought up an example of a writer asking "ok, but how did the character become a Folk Hero? What kind of Folk Hero? What was the character's heroic deed?" or something along the lines. I'm as bummed about backgrounds not mattering for the story as everyone else, but I do see their point here. They'd need to shoehorn custom characters into very specific backstories for dialogue options to make sense and not feel suspiciously broad. And most people would probably prefer their characters to have exactly the stories they've made for them and not be forced into a background they might dislike. So for example: they'd have to make you a Noble of a specific family to be able to create a compelling story/dialogue around it. And at this point it's getting close to DA:O-style origins, a lot of work and, as I mentioned, becomes limiting freedom in backstory. "Custom" and "reactive" don't play particularly nice together, unfortunately.

Though I suppose they could make it... vestigial/low-key but present? It would still be nice. Like being able to make a pompous answer as a Noble, express being uneasy in a city as an Outlander or mention familiarity with hard life on the streets as an Urchin. Small, generic stuff, but still a bit of background acknowledgement.



They aren't putting that level of attention into like, alternate dialogue things for your class, they're just little optional fluff conversation options, so it feels a bit weird to hold backgrounds to a MUCH higher standard and then give up on reaching that point.

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I personally think you should be putting that much detail into background, race, and class.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
So for example: they'd have to make you a Noble of a specific family to be able to create a compelling story/dialogue around it.


Not necessarily, it could be as simple as including lines like "[NOBLE][INTIMIDATION] Do you know who I am?" where appropriate with a success resulting in the other party being flustered and submissive while not acknowledging any specific background lore.
Similarly, for Folk Hero, the Player's Handbook has a "Defining Event" table, with Descent into Avernus having a variant Baldur's Gate specific table. They could quite easily have you pick a defining event at character creation and have dialogue options appear when relevant. Obviously this is far more work than ignoring background, but it would make the choice of background feel more important than it currently is.

Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Though I suppose they could make it... vestigial/low-key but present? It would still be nice. Like being able to make a pompous answer as a Noble, express being uneasy in a city as an Outlander or mention familiarity with hard life on the streets as an Urchin. Small, generic stuff, but still a bit of background acknowledgement.
Exactly this. Race and Class are acknowledged by granting extra conversation options when relevant, so why shouldn't background? If they are not going to acknowledge it in gameplay, then the background section of character creation might as well be a free choice of any two skill proficiencies.


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