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Please explain? No one is just nice to you. Everyone you meet is such a massive dick and cunt to you for no reason. Is this how everyone at Larian initiates conversations with people?

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I haven't found that to be the case at all. Our party members are panicking and have big egos, but that's normal for adventurers in this world, and three of them happen to have dark backgrounds. Gale and Wyll seem to value treating others nicely and doing the "right" thing. I found most of the tieflings and several of the druids in that druid enclave to be nice and good.

I'm seeing this same post pop up a lot, and I don't really understand why -- the NPCs are definitely not entirely rude. And our party members are freaked out of their minds, along with having very strong personalities, which makes sense. What's the problem?

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'Die N'wah'
'Why won't you die?'
'Ive fought mudcraps much fiercer than you'

I once tried introducing a female friend to Morrowind back when I was at uni, and immediately she got upset by how mean people in the game were talking to her. I explained that was because she still had a low personality and reputation score and that just made her like it even less.

But the thing is games are not meant to resemble real life. Its ok for Drow, Orcs and Tieflings to be inherently evil, another great thing that is gone from RPGs now.

'My favourite race is dark elves' I once told another gamer friend. 'Oh they are evil right?' he asked, to which I explained 'ah but not always you see because they can be like Drizzt' ...

My god yes that was once a real life conversation I had. Now if you call dark elves evil IRL you probably get carted off to the gulag / gitmo.

Oh I once joined a roleplaying server in the early days of DDO, made a drow and stayed in character saying evil things and worshipping my bitch queen umberlee. I got kicked from most groups who didn't get it.

Last edited by DumbleDorf; 08/10/20 09:26 AM.
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I must admit the firsts characters to join the group are mean... I can understand for Lazael and Astarion, but Gale and Shadow .. ?

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Originally Posted by DumbleDorf
'Die N'wah'
'Why won't you die?'
'Ive fought mudcraps much fiercer than you'

I once tried introducing a female friend to Morrowind back when I was at uni, and immediately she got upset by how mean people in the game were talking to her. I explained that was because she still had a low personality and reputation score and that just made her like it even less.

But the thing is games are not meant to resemble real life. Its ok for Drow, Orcs and Tieflings to be inherently evil, another great thing that is gone from RPGs now.

'My favourite race is dark elves' I once told another gamer friend. 'Oh they are evil right?' he asked, to which I explained 'ah but not always you see because they can be like Drizzt' ...

My god yes that was once a real life conversation I had. Now if you call dark elves evil IRL you probably get carted off to the gulag / gitmo.

Oh I once joined a roleplaying server in the early days of DDO, made a drow and stayed in character saying evil things and worshipping my bitch queen umberlee. I got kicked from most groups who didn't get it.


The thing which boggles me the most is people assuming because you would play an evil character in a game, it inherently means you are a bad person in real life. If it was the case, many novelists and screenplay writers would be in jail. People should learn to dissociate fiction from reality. They are two different things entirely.

Last edited by Nyanko; 08/10/20 10:05 AM.
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As far as companion first impressions are concerned, I second this post. Larian seems to really love characters who are genuinely unlikable people only capable of communicating in blunt insults or, if you catch them in a good mood, snarky remarks.

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I think the companions in of themselves are fine, though they do seem rather oriented around an evil/neutral party. I would like if we could see a wider range of companions, some that are more good-aligned and more easy-going. Having companions that are good buddies; reliable and fun is always a major plus in a great RPG. Hopefully more such characters will be added in the full release. I would love if we could get a good aligned classic dwarf or elf companion

Last edited by deserk; 08/10/20 10:14 AM.
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Originally Posted by The Drow Warlock
I haven't found that to be the case at all. Our party members are panicking and have big egos, but that's normal for adventurers in this world, and three of them happen to have dark backgrounds [...] And our party members are freaked out of their minds, along with having very strong personalities, which makes sense. What's the problem?


The problem is that this is your opinion, just as other people have other opinions.

And I second that the characters in BG3 are mostly unlikeable. Leaders have usually charismatic appearances, otherwise they wouldn't have people following them. And arrogance and big egos is not an obligatory trait of an adventurer. There are countless examples in literature and movies that prove the contrary.

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Well, I have met one NPC recently who was a definite candidate for a "Glasgow Kiss". Other than that imps and goblins are definite target practice. Party members I have recruited so far have been reasonably cooperative, depending, I think, on what you say to them. However, I will wait and see how my potential core group work out. Keeping a party working together whether they like each other or not is part of the job of a leader.

Last edited by mfr; 08/10/20 10:23 AM. Reason: Addendum.

Someone must have spiked her senna pod drink!
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Originally Posted by Llengrath
As far as companion first impressions are concerned, I second this post. Larian seems to really love characters who are genuinely unlikable people only capable of communicating in blunt insults or, if you catch them in a good mood, snarky remarks.


And so what if they do?

They are based around similar characters from older games. Viconia and Edwin were my favourite characters in the original games, Viconia especially because you could actually teach her how to become good if you wanted over the course of the game.

By far my favourite character in NWN was Qara, while she had a Chaotic Neutral alignment, her personality verged more towards Neutral Evil if and when you didn't agree, trust or understand her.

On all accounts, Minsc was always my least favourite character, simply good and dumb, and Jaheira was nothing less than a whiny old hag with a temper tantrum. Aerie was a brilliantly written good character with a strong story arc, but she was very picky and needed constant nannying and appeasing to remain on good terms.

The worlds depicted in RPG fantasty games are ones that would give rise to many more evil characters thsn you get in real life - just imagine if you were actually captured by mindflayers, or constantly besieged by trolls, or approached by an actual succubus and offered to make a deal of a lifetime with the devil. You are going to be very easily tempted away from 'good' as many of the characters in these fantasy realms often are.

Games are not meant to depict real world standards of good and evil, and everytime they pander to such things as the recent removal of inherently evil races the lore and fantasy aspects suffer and diminish greatly.

Last edited by DumbleDorf; 08/10/20 10:30 AM.
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What I find when I see this complaint is that people are mad that the women are not nice to them.

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Originally Posted by Dulany67
What I find when I see this complaint is that people are mad that the women are not nice to them.


If the only thing you can contribute is ad hominem, maybe you shouldn't contribute at all.

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Originally Posted by DumbleDorf
And so what if they do?

They are based around similar characters from older games. Viconia and Edwin were my favourite characters in the original games, Viconia especially because you could actually teach her how to become good if you wanted over the course of the game.

By far my favourite character in NWN was Qara, while she had a Chaotic Neutral alignment, her personality verged more towards Neutral Evil if and when you didn't agree, trust or understand her.

On all accounts, Minsc was always my least favourite character, simply good and dumb, and Jaheira was nothing less than a whiny old hag with a temper tantrum. Aerie was a brilliantly written good character with a strong story arc, but she was very picky and needed constant nannying and appeasing to remain on good terms.

The worlds depicted in RPG fantasty games are ones that would give rise to many more evil characters thsn you get in real life - just imagine if you were actually captured by mindflayers, or constantly besieged by trolls, or approached by an actual succubus and offered to make a deal of a lifetime with the devil. You are going to be very easily tempted away from 'good' as many of the characters in these fantasy realms often are.

Games are not meant to depict real world standards of good and evil, and everytime they pander to such things as the recent removal of inherently evil races the lore and fantasy aspects suffer and diminish greatly.


I mean, yeah, you're right, and I wasn't trying to say I don't want any 'evil' characters in my games. Quit the contrary. Lae'zel for example paints a nice picture of your average githyanki warrior, filling a similar narrative role as Viconia did for the drow, in a good way. Shadowheart is a priestess of Shar, and Astarion is a vampire-spawn. All of them are solid characters, and their personalities are justified.

But two things bother me here, and as a precaution let me just say this all boils down to personal preference.

First, the characters in BG3 are snarky and arrogant. Again. It annoyed me to death in Divinity, it annoys me all the same in BG3. Special shout out to Astarion, who's personality is like the writers at Larian merged Red Prince and Sebille to make the most punchable face in the Forgotten realms. In the meantime, I found every single evil companion in Pathfinder: Kingmaker genuinely likeable and fun to travel with. Hell, even Edwin and Viconia were fun to have around due to their comical arguments with everybody else. Don't see much of that in BG3 yet, but we'll see in time.

Second, the aforementioned three are the first companion characters you get to interact with, and all of them are very clearly on the evil side of the alignment spectrum. It's like the game is subtly pushing you to play evil, or at least neutral. It's not what I personally enjoy doing in rpgs, at least not on a first playthrough anyway, and all I want is more options.

Also, I strongly agree with your last point. Alignment is an important part of the lore, and I'm not happy about it slowly getting erased.

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One of my biggest issues with the game right now is how hostile literally every person you meet is. I get the idea of realism, but it doesn't make it a welcoming experience.

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Originally Posted by Llengrath
Originally Posted by DumbleDorf
And so what if they do?

They are based around similar characters from older games. Viconia and Edwin were my favourite characters in the original games, Viconia especially because you could actually teach her how to become good if you wanted over the course of the game.

By far my favourite character in NWN was Qara, while she had a Chaotic Neutral alignment, her personality verged more towards Neutral Evil if and when you didn't agree, trust or understand her.

On all accounts, Minsc was always my least favourite character, simply good and dumb, and Jaheira was nothing less than a whiny old hag with a temper tantrum. Aerie was a brilliantly written good character with a strong story arc, but she was very picky and needed constant nannying and appeasing to remain on good terms.

The worlds depicted in RPG fantasty games are ones that would give rise to many more evil characters thsn you get in real life - just imagine if you were actually captured by mindflayers, or constantly besieged by trolls, or approached by an actual succubus and offered to make a deal of a lifetime with the devil. You are going to be very easily tempted away from 'good' as many of the characters in these fantasy realms often are.

Games are not meant to depict real world standards of good and evil, and everytime they pander to such things as the recent removal of inherently evil races the lore and fantasy aspects suffer and diminish greatly.


I mean, yeah, you're right, and I wasn't trying to say I don't want any 'evil' characters in my games. Quit the contrary. Lae'zel for example paints a nice picture of your average githyanki warrior, filling a similar narrative role as Viconia did for the drow, in a good way. Shadowheart is a priestess of Shar, and Astarion is a vampire-spawn. All of them are solid characters, and their personalities are justified.

But two things bother me here, and as a precaution let me just say this all boils down to personal preference.

First, the characters in BG3 are snarky and arrogant. Again. It annoyed me to death in Divinity, it annoys me all the same in BG3. Special shout out to Astarion, who's personality is like the writers at Larian merged Red Prince and Sebille to make the most punchable face in the Forgotten realms. In the meantime, I found every single evil companion in Pathfinder: Kingmaker genuinely likeable and fun to travel with. Hell, even Edwin and Viconia were fun to have around due to their comical arguments with everybody else. Don't see much of that in BG3 yet, but we'll see in time.

Second, the aforementioned three are the first companion characters you get to interact with, and all of them are very clearly on the evil side of the alignment spectrum. It's like the game is subtly pushing you to play evil, or at least neutral. It's not what I personally enjoy doing in rpgs, at least not on a first playthrough anyway, and all I want is more options.

Also, I strongly agree with your last point. Alignment is an important part of the lore, and I'm not happy about it slowly getting erased.



I hear they put mostly evil companions in the game at first to get more people to playtest the evil route, since many people play good when given that as a choice. Don't know if that's been confirmed, but might explain why only evil(ish) companions are available at the beginning of EA.

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Companions aren't exactly fun at the start and that is as far as I have gotten. Whole idea of Game=Fun seems to be lost ? I keep running through the first 2 areas trying different classes but it is completely linear without much room for any sort of leeway to take a left and go off Larians plotted course. Everything in the Universe being hostile is not my idea of a good game of D&D. Removal of Alignment and changing the basic ruleset seemingly randomly makes for some weirdness. Feels a lot like DoS 2 and that is NOT good in my opinion.

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Hey guys, Wyll is not a bad guy - he's cocky - but he's 'good alignment'. So is Gale.

Is the upset really over not yet seeing a paragon of virtue in our party? How about we wait until paladins are released then? Before complaining about the five characters we meet at the beginning of the game?

I hope you're not the same people who were complaining the game wouldn't be dark or grim enough. The world is grim, and these personalities reflect it - they are tough, defensive, egoic. Aside from perhaps paladins, light clerics, and the very rare other class, it makes sense to see that personality in the adventurers, or the people who fight through the most difficult challenges, in this grim world. And again, NPCs are not all like that at all -- most of the tieflings in the druid enclave are good, simple, innocent non-adventurers. And several of the druids are pure and good-aligned.

Is this really a complaint that we don't have an unblemished heart or defender of innocence in our first act party? Does that not seem a bit ridiculously particular to you? This game is amazing, and it's sad to see people complaining to Larian over something so myopic.

And I'd bet my only remaining Drow eye we'll meet white knights and friendly knaves later on, fear not gentle children.

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Originally Posted by Martij7au

I hear they put mostly evil companions in the game at first to get more people to playtest the evil route, since many people play good when given that as a choice. Don't know if that's been confirmed, but might explain why only evil(ish) companions are available at the beginning of EA.


Yes, Swen said as much in one of the interviews.

Regardless, I can understand part of the OP's complaints. I get that githyanki think they are the best thing that ever happened to the world in general, and everyone else isn't fit to shine their boots, but sheesh, did they go over the top with Lae'zel. I have absolutely no incentive to drag her around and listen to her diatribes (I know, she promised we'd go find a cure, but I absolutely don't trust her to deliver).

Likewise, Astarion's mannerisms remind me of Frank'N'Further from the Rocky Horror show, which prevents me from taking him the least bit seriously. This is mostly a voice acting issue, not so much a writing one, but I still hope the writers will tone down those personalities a bit. In DOS2 Ifan got a complete makeover between EA and the final release (he was a whiny, drug-addled washout in the first iteration), so it may just happen.

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Originally Posted by Bubusse
I must admit the firsts characters to join the group are mean... I can understand for Lazael and Astarion, but Gale and Shadow .. ?


Gale and Shadowheart haven't been mean to me, but then I get +approval with them the most and I tried to save Shadowheart in the intro. Shadowheart is also a racist (she at least doesn't like Githyanki) which might affect how she react to the PC. I'm playing an half-elf so I wouldn't know how much it impact.

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Originally Posted by Nimue_de
Likewise, Astarion's mannerisms remind me of Frank'N'Further from the Rocky Horror show, which prevents me from taking him the least bit seriously. This is mostly a voice acting issue, not so much a writing one, but I still hope the writers will tone down those personalities a bit.

I quite like him! He reminds me of the male elves from Oblivion, who drove a lot of players nuts because the dunmer in particular weren't the suspicious, gravel-voiced hard-arses from Morrowind but quite the opposite.

Originally Posted by Nimue_de
In DOS2 Ifan got a complete makeover between EA and the final release (he was a whiny, drug-addled washout in the first iteration), so it may just happen.

That was quite the transformation. The Mk II version was IMHO a big improvement on the grungy drudanae-obsessed emo he was originally; that's not to say that character didn't have some potential, but I guess that wasn't a direction that was working for them.


J'aime le fromage.
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