Larian Studios Forums Beyond Divinity (English) General More experience, please!

It's becoming really difficult not to be put off by the "level grind" in BD -- it's nearly impossible to get a level, and the all important 1 skill point that it affords. The XP requirements to get to each level are enomormous, and even quest rewards aren't helping that much. Can something be changed here? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />

I've completed all the quests in act 1 and then went back and slaughtered everything I could slaughter, and I'm just level 13. I don't have any skill points to spare, because they're all tied up in passive abilities that are more or less required (shield blocking, weapon proficiencies, identify) or utility skills (pickpocket, convert arrows, sharpen). Part of the fun of RPG games is to build up a character with a diversity of abilities; the only abilities I have, beyond Sneak and Whirlwind (which I started with) is Pickpocket. Yay.

If levels were more attainable, perhaps the spells could actually be useful? They look fun, but the mana cost for using them, combined with lack of points to do anything with, has prevented me from making anything other than two guys with swords and bows. Which pretty much degenerates the game into a monster click-fest.

Hopefully I'm not being unreasonable; I really enjoyed the character build up in DD, and there were enough fun skills to use that warriors didn't feel like just being passive monster-clickers. Since there are no active warrior abilities that I've seen so far, it'd be fun to be able to afford some magical abilities... but not on the skimpy diet of bonus points BD is affording me. And I can't see myself playing through 3 more acts of "Click the monster." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ouch.gif" alt="" />

I think lvl 13 is fine for act 1 from what I've heard. Kiya or someone who's actually completed the game will be of more help though.
Apparently you get better spells etc. in act 2 so I would soldier bravely on.

I'm far from an expert but i'm at the last enemy in the game at level 29. Nothing has been a problem at that level and i've seen german version players state they completed it at that exact same level.

I was level 12 in Act 2 and was fine, just be careful of the Earth Elementals (they earthquake which is very very powerful and would kill even a lvl 30 if a few do it at the same time).

Experience is very fast in Act 3 onward. I leveled without even thinking I was close, just completing a few quests.

Hrm, that's not all that encouraging; having only 16 more levels to go basically tells me that I won't ever have a lot of skill points to play with or stats to afford the mana for those spells. By the end of the game, if I'm 30th, that's only 36 skill points to invest, and 150 stat points, as opposed to finishing DD at ~56 level. I realize that these are different games, but feeling let down about the comparatively pathetic characters I'm making is becoming hard to avoid.

I have access to better spells now that I've found the level 2 battlefields, but I *still* can't afford the mana to cast them. Sure, I can swill potions and abuse merchants for more, but I'd have to guzzle 2 small mana potions to even cast one Hammer. Since a point in Intelligence only seems to net you 10 mana (right?), it'd take me 2 levels worth of investing in nothing BUT intelligence to be able to cast the spell twice. Ugh.

I wouldn't be so annoyed if weapon masteries weren't completely draining. The whole 1-handed weapon/1 handed weapon with shield proficiency goof is aggravating -- what's the difference? And why can't there just be Slashing/Crushing/Piercing masteries and call it a day? The gain from points invested in masteries is puny for its cost, and couple that with non-overlapping skill trees... ugh.

Dunno really. Maybe look for mana charms and stuff them in your armour? That's what I did in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

You can boost your wisdom skill.
This way you will gain experience much faster, and soon, you will have regained the initial investment.

This should make a difference in the end, provided that skill is increased soon enough.

Philippe

Wisdom's a sucker bet, and, like Embellish, is a waste of skill points. Besides, that's *still* tying up skill points, when I want to have more of them (or, optimally, skill points that do MORE for their investment).

Mana Charms: Yeah, sounds like I'll have to. It worked out well in DD, but it didn't hurt that even a base spell did NOT cost 50+ to cast.

Exactly. I really do not understand the whole "If I use a longsword, I can slash with it, but I can't chop/crush/pierce/stab/throw/drop/whatever with it". Warrior's can't specialise, there was a big topic about it written by FleaBittenFox which got put into Technical Problems for some reason. If you can find it I list my skills there (not impressive and quite useless).

I really like BD, but the skill points stop the character being mine. I can't get attached to the character because it just feels like it isn't personalised as it is in every other RPG. People say it's whining but, it's nice to be able to have fun and not be so limited. The game is linear just because it forces you to have only a couple of skills etc. You either go through the whole game hitting with a sword, casting magic, or sneaking. You can't do all three mixed together. That to me is linear, reguardless of story.

...and to add, what's with the 'with shield' skill?!?!

OF COURSE you're going to use a shield if using a one-handed weapon, so why make 'WITH SHIELD' a seperate skill?? It should at least been in the one-handed skill subtree with 'accuarcy' 'damage' etc. etc.

This is an issue with most of the skills, not just 'with shield'!

There's only enough skill points to make your characters combat ready to survive...there's not enough to make them useful at anything else!

I'll look for that post, I'm sorry it's fallen on deaf ears, as the argument of useless warrior skills is pretty sound reasoning to me, too.

And yeah. Basically, you're forced to optimize a cookie cutter character. There are skills that you're "required" to buy, and the investment in those required skills is so heavy, that you'll never get to do any of the other stuff the 290+ skills promise that you can do. Diablo had its foul run of Cookie Cutters, but there was *some* room to buck the curve. There doesn't appear to be any in BD, which is frustrating -- I enjoy every aspect of the game EXCEPT the character building, which is the MAIN POINT of an RPG.

Here is the thread:

Skill Point Debate

I put my skills down as of Act 4, level 27 or 28 I believe.

I agree totally about character development btw. The whole thrill of Baldurs Gate or NWN for me, was my end character... the backstabbing Rogue (which is why I suck at BD combat, I always play Rogue's in other games). To even get close to a Rogue who can kill a boss solo is incredibly indepth but oh so worth it if you like that kind of thing. I really wanted to do that in BD, DD was awesome fun as a Survivor.

Exactly! Which is what I did in DD and leveled up much quicker. Thanks for the reminder. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

I was using a TON of mana until I realized that I didn't have to load extra points into elemental magic and their combinations. For instance, I created a spell that uses all 4 elements and a TON of mana. It does a lot of damage, too. But I could have (and did this last time around) create individual spells for just fire, water, earth and air where I use less mana and the spell packs a decent punch. As a Level 10 Wizard using a Fire (2) Magic Spell, I can squish most of the monsters in the dungeon areas (Act 1, BFs 1&2) in one tiny zap.

I'm still getting used to the skillpoint system in BD. This is one game where I'm going to have to experiment with it before I decide whether I can create a character I'm 100% happy with. Then again, I have a lot of time on my hands with little responsibilities to anyone other than myself (not married, I work from home, live alone, blah, blah, blah) so I can indulge in this type of stuff. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

P.S. Sorry about posting 2 back-to-back messages. Oops! My bad. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Couple of quick questions, if you don't mind.

First, does character level have anything to do with spell power? I didn't think it did.

Second, I've got a level 8 personalized with 6 points invested in magic missiles. Does almost no damage at all to anything, even cheapo guards who lack all resistances. So when you say "Fire (2) Magic Spell," what exactly are you using?

Thanks.

I was just about to hit the hay when I came across your question and I didn't want to leave you hanging until I came back online tomorrow (or whenever!). I can't answer your question with 100% accuracy but I don't think level has anything to do with how powerful a spell is. I only think it has to do with how many skillpoints you can add to a spell when you create it.






Okay, I opened up my game (just for you!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />) and double checked how I set up the fire spell. It's an elemental spell on level 2. When I made this spell I clicked on "Wizard ------> Elemental ----------> Focussed ----------> Instant --------> Fire"(and added a skill point). Now, I can make this stronger if I want to or leave it the way it is. I chose to add one more skillpoint. Oh, shoot! I didn't check to see how much mana it uses! *pulls hair out* Sorry about that! But it's not the whole slot of mana (like one spell I created!)

Btw, I made a missle spell using the 4 elementals. That's the one that uses a hunk of mana. I invested 4 skill points in it before I realized what I was doing. LOL Live and learn (is one of my mottoes!) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

I hope this helps! Have fun.


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

It is true in the beginning, but there come a time where your catch up with your "wasted" skill points and level up faster, having more skills at the end that if you had not used that wisdom skill.

Philippe

Faralas, thanks! I appreciate you're taking some bedtime to write back. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> I think the reason your spell works is because it uses all four elements. Some people have posted that this uses a lot of mana, but makes spells much more effective.

I think you missed the point of his post entirely--he was saying that the multiple element spell used way too much mana and therefore he doesn't use it anymore; it's the level 2 instant fire blast he gets good use out of. Admittedly, I don't quite see how he's one-hit killing Act 1 guards with a spell that should only be doing 11-25 damage...

No, I never said I was killing the guards with one shot of a fire spell. I believe I stated I was able to kill the BF Dungeon Monsters (Level 2 Skeletons and spiders) from Act 1. I apologize if I gave the impression that I'm able to squish the guards with one shot. Not in my wildest dreams! LOL (They require several).

But more to the point when experimenting with spell creation, I didn't know how much damage an instant 'focussed' spell would do over a missile. And I guess it's wise (from my point of view) to save the games where I level up and experiment with the differences in how the spells interact with the NPCs I encounter. That's always been a bit of the 'fun' of RPGing [for me].


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

Well, that's why I don't use the spell! LOL It uses way too much mana, packs too much punch for the monsters in the dungeon [not talking about guards and soldiers] and I made it without 'thinking'. The level 2 fire spell works better for me. (That's the spell I showed you how to create in my previous message). I'm still in the beginnings of this game so I'm going to have to experiment with creating spells. I can tell this is going to be a LOT of fun. *g*


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />