Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Oct 2020
Bubusse Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
Hello everyone

Like pretty much everyone here, i was quite hyped by BG3 and almost insta bought the game on steam laugh. After a little under 10 hours of gameplay, here are my thoughts so far for the main issues of the game.
Precisions : i played ADD on tabletop for maybe 20 years (mainly ADD3.5), i also played mass effect, dragon age origin, diablo 2, Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Oillars of Eternity, etc. Never played DOS 1/2 though.


I let aside various bugs and balancing issues for now, I'm only talking gameplay


Be advised : English is not my native langage hehe
Be advised : topic will be fleshed out with time.


1 - Biggest so far : Silent ?
The main protagonist is... silent. It's 2020. Every NPC have fully voiced interactions, companions too... but not us ? It's REALLY weird when my character just stand idle looking concerned when everyone is talking ! It's not an indie game, it's supposed to be a $60 AAA game ! And it creeped me out when, out of nowhere, my character talked (one short sentence) the first time we entered the camp. Compare that to Mass Effect (released in 2007....) !
It kicks me out of the game in every conversations.

=> You need to have a voice for each line of dialogue, even if it means you need to eliminate few options in dialogues, or limit the number of voices possibilities in the character creation.


2 - low interaction between companions
Once again, we need to compare BG3 with games like Dragon Age (Morrigan moking the Mabari) or Mass Effect (commenting on Shepard decisions), and even baldur's Gate 2 (Korgan/Aerie, Jan Jansen, Anomen/Keldorn... !).
=> Companions joking & picking on each other is a huge thing to have in a RPG. Especially when the first companions of the EA are all so strongly minded.



3 - Camp is empty...
What is the point of having a camp if the only thing inside are idling companions and random roll beds in a field ?
This point need to be fleshed out or abandonned :
=> If the only point is to change the companions, do it BG2 style, where companions have their own lives and agendas and can be found at some specific places.
=> Oterwise it need to be fleshed out with interaction, maybe base upgrades (Like ME), merchant (like DAO), side quests (pillars of eternity, BG2), etc.
=> Don't let us bring everything to camp automatically ! it's ruining the idea of choosing what to loot & what to leave behind. Do it simple (a stash like diablo 2 for exemple)


4 - Team movements
Already addressed here and there, but the movement system is 'heavy' : to jump an obstacle, we have to select every team member one by one, separate them from the group, makes them jump, select the next one, then reform the group... a simpler solution (like BG1/2 when we used to have a basic "select & go" system) would be nice. The fact that team member constantly follow you very close (6 feet guys : Covid19 !) is often problematic with body collision, AOE spells and hostile encounters.
- it's also an issue in several dialogue when companions gets stuck between us and the NPC we are talking to.
=> need to space the companions more, and to automatize some feature like jumping an obstacle outside combat or separate/integrate one member for scouting ahead.


5 - Wallhack scouting !
Need to be adressed ! right now you can now what's behind any door. In the first dungeon i discovered the secret chamber because of that. I also knew about an ambush by 4 guys without even searching to wallhack !
=> Fog of war need to be implemented quick.


6 - Lip sync and facial expressions
Big issue here too, and if i say "mass effect andromeda", i think people will start to run away...
But's that the issue : there is issue with lip sync (in english), and the facial expression of many characters (including the protagonist) don't align with the current conversation. It's really weird to see someone angrily shooting while looking like a monk ! Might be bug (need to submit few screencaptures so you can see for yourself)


7 - Camera angles (outside bugs)
We need several option for the camera outside the tactic mode. a close over the shoulder mode would be nice, a vanity camera mode too (the game is beautiful, the character and companions too : we need to be able to enjoy it outside of dialogues & cutscene)


8 - Rapid bar is way too big
All in the title : we can have maybe 30 options in the rapid bar => it's suppressing the tactical choices we had to make in BG1/2 with only 3 things in our belt. The way spells are in the quick bar is also a little weird.
=> I hope the fact that anyone can use scrolls is a bug /!\ otherwise it's a broken game mechanic !

Last edited by Bubusse; 08/10/20 11:49 AM. Reason: grammar... X_x
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Netherlands
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Netherlands
I'm sure that the reason for point n.1 is the enormous volume of voice acting and face animation that would require.

With voice acting only, it would mean recording every single dialogue option by a dozen different voice actors. Then you would need to animate all possible faces of all races and all genders for all these lines of dialogue.

Sure, technically it's very possible, but in practice the amount of work it would require is too big. And it's an RPG, so the amount of dialogue variety is more important than voice acting.

Joined: Jul 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Jul 2020
I think silence for the voice of the main character is fine. We hear those lines spoken in our own voice, don't we? If a voice actor delivered those lines, they might be spoken differently from how we had intended.

Joined: Oct 2020
Bubusse Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
I didn't have that problem with mass effect.

And once again : since we can see our character standing here idle WHILE HAVING A CONVERSATION feels really weird.
Same for the companions that do nothing during cutscenes (like when the illithid eat your brain in the wreckage : they are just here doing nothing like everything is normal...

Joined: Oct 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Bubusse
I didn't have that problem with mass effect.


OP's probably referring to the facial animations when your PC is reacting with horror or disgust...ME:A looked very weird and BG3 does as well. I'm sure it'll improve throughout EA, but for now, it just looks odd. wink

Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Quebec
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Quebec
Fair points. It is a fair summary of current weaknesses of this beta / in dev. version.

( the term 'review' in the title was confusing, but glad to see you are not claiming to review an incomplete early access game )

Joined: Apr 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Apr 2020
I may be mistaken, but I am pretty sure I encountered a cutscene where my character actually had a voice that was based on one of my selected options.

The Camp actually changes based on where you make camp - I've had it be an open field deal next to a river (with an added NPC I "recruited"), and I've also had it next to some castle ruins complete with cliff side and scenery. They may add more to it in the future, but right now it kinda feels like a D&D "long rest" camp to me, which is kinda what it's supposed to be.

I think the lip sync and the like are EA issues as there are several scenes right now where the animation isn't there at all and they just ventriloquist their lines.

I agree with the fog of war thing. Knowing there's a "hidden room" or "hidden passage" based on your mini map and just walking around endlessly until you find the switch/someone makes their perception check because you *know* it's there is a little off putting.

You also make fair points in the other sections.

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
I'm perfectly fine with silent protagonist, just with voicebarks. That said, if it's only voicebarks, it should have WAY more voices than 4.

Joined: Oct 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
Totally agree in voice acting for the character, i know that is a huge amount of resources even only two voices (one male and one female) but for me is very inmersion breaking have a mute character in a world that everother can talk.

Mute character can always be left as an option for people who prefer this or for those who can't accept an elf talking with the same voice as a dwarf.

Lips sincronization and facial espression problens are truly here but i'm confident that it's more an EA thing, in fact i'm surprise the EA included cinematic camera at all, i know that they are going to put it in the game but think it will be left for the final game

Joined: Aug 2020
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Aug 2020
I don't mind the silent protagonist, I think it works here but agree with you on some of this. It would add a lot if the companions talked more to each other and is your best point in the topic. The spells and the MMO UI, the camera and fog of war are all good points

Joined: Oct 2020
Bubusse Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Burnspot
Originally Posted by Bubusse
I didn't have that problem with mass effect.


OP's probably referring to the facial animations when your PC is reacting with horror or disgust...ME:A looked very weird and BG3 does as well. I'm sure it'll improve throughout EA, but for now, it just looks odd. wink

Yep,
once again, mass effect is more than 10 years old, much have been done then (hence the hate around mass effect andromeda, wich was a setback)

Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Quote

=> You need to have a voice for each line of dialogue, even if it means you need to eliminate few options in dialogues, or limit the number of voices possibilities in the character creation.

im going for a strong opinion here. Make PC fully silent aside for battle cries and various angry player character noises (ie the way Dragon Age Origins did). We already have a good narrator describing actions, thoughts and feeling pretty well. We also have some good animation and facial expression to convey PC intent based on previous statement and/or current context.
Let my mind speak the voice i want my PC to speak.

Also is somewhat disturbing to hear the PC talking in a cutscene after having read dozens of lines and watched his eyebrows fills the gaps in voice-acting

Last edited by kasakoff; 09/10/20 01:42 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020

3 - Camp is empty...
What is the point of having a camp if the only thing inside are idling companions and random roll beds in a field ?
This point need to be fleshed out or abandonned :
=> If the only point is to change the companions, do it BG2 style, where companions have their own lives and agendas and can be found at some specific places.
=> Oterwise it need to be fleshed out with interaction, maybe base upgrades (Like ME), merchant (like DAO), side quests (pillars of eternity, BG2), etc.
=> Don't let us bring everything to camp automatically ! it's ruining the idea of choosing what to loot & what to leave behind. Do it simple (a stash like diablo 2 for exemple)



actually
Camp fills up as you progress through the game, its not just to change your companions

Last edited by Bray; 09/10/20 02:06 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
Bubusse Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
Ok, so it feels empty now because... well we're stuck at low level smile Good to know !


Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5