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As it stands, the warlock class's Find Familiar spell is a bit overpowered. While I love how much flexibility being able to summon an imp gives, it needs to be reined in. Here are three points about the imp:

1. Scouting potential: Currently there is no discernable limit to how far an imp can travel from its caster, which is a bit of an issue. While it's great that an imp can be used as a scout, the mobility afforded by its flight and the ability to turn invisible means no end to fun but ridiculous cheese strats where you can send your imp to find the nearest waypoint. I'd suggest limiting how far the imp can move from the summoner or at least limiting the information that the imp relays to the caster.

2. The imp in combat: The imp is able to act independently of the caster which practically gives a warlock multiattack. Furthermore, enemies never seem to attack the imp and just let it float around and take attacks of opportunity.

3. In addition to these advantages, the makes independent skill checks. I don't mind this part, but it should just be considered for balance.

4. Lack of darkvision: This is actually a nitpicking suggestion for a buff, but I would suggest giving the imp darkvision as it has in the 5e Monster Manual. The inability for my little demon friend to see in the dark is silly.

Case in point, I adore the imp but it's way too abuseable for now.

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I too adore the familiars, and I was wondering if I lost a point of constitution when it died - but yes, tis just a great summon currently. I love that - but keeping it on a leash makes sense I guess. Enemies have attacked my familiars, though. Just please dont make it cost a spell slot, thatd be sad =P

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From the rules for 5e

Familiar. The imp can enter into a contract to serve another creature as a familiar, forming a telepathic bond with its willing master. While the two are bonded, the master can sense what the imp senses as long as they are within 1 mile of each other. While the imp is within 10 feet of its master, the master shares the imp’s Magic Resistance trait. If its master violates the terms of the contract, the imp can end its service as a familiar, ending the telepathic bond.

so I don't know what the scale of stuff is in BG 3 but a mile is plenty. Imps are powerful scouts

for combat, you are right. "Additionally, when you take the Attack action, you can forgo one of your own attacks to allow your familiar to make one attack with its reaction." so it should be the Warlock giving up an attack to have the Imp attack. What is missing is the ability for a familiar to do the help action to give someone advantage to attack which would still be a huge benefit in combat.

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1: I think it's fine to scout around super far in my opinion. It doesn't add too much power into the game because you can usually see people on the horizon a good distance off just on yourself. Unless the imp also triggers ambushes, then there might be a problem.
2: A warlock's imp is able to attack normally in D&D 5e so that's no true shock. Enemies not attacking it back is a really weird though. That sounds more like a bug, or enemies are designed to just flat out ignore familiars and go for the summoners.
3: Making independent skill checks actually would be awesome for the warlock familiar and not the other classes familiars spells.
4: I'm actually surprised they don't have darkvision already on imps. They normally should have darkvision as powerful as a drow.

Last edited by Medirby; 08/10/20 11:25 PM. Reason: Edited 1 because the wording was off

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Originally Posted by Medirby
1: I think it's fine to scout around super far in my opinion. It doesn't add too much power into the game because you can usually see people on the horizon a good distance off just on yourself. Unless the imp also triggers ambushes, then there might be a problem.

That is of course a matter of taste. I would also favor to go in line with tabletop rules (100 ft leash), mostly otherwise it removes the need for PC scouts (rogue, ranger, etc.)

Originally Posted by Medirby
2: A warlock's imp is able to attack normally in D&D 5e so that's no true shock. Enemies not attacking it back is a really weird though. That sounds more like a bug, or enemies are designed to just flat out ignore familiars and go for the summoners.

Warlock's Pact of the Chain familiars are able to attack, but at the cost of one attack of the warlock. PHB, p 107: "Additionally, when you take the Attack action, you can forgo one of your own attacks to allow your familiar to use its reaction to make one attack of its own."

Originally Posted by Medirby
3: Making independent skill checks actually would be awesome for the warlock familiar and not the other classes familiars spells.

Normally that is not needed, as Pact of the Chain forms are just overall better at skills than normal animal familiar (except maybe owl and hawk, but they are not in the game)

Originally Posted by Medirby
4: I'm actually surprised they don't have darkvision already on imps. They normally should have darkvision as powerful as a drow.

Yes.

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Well, it seems warlocks have potential for a lone wolf playthrough.

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I am totally envious of the Imp's survive-ability. I am using a Ranger with a summon familiar and I am really sad that everyone seems to target them and they die. I really stress out about that and it impairs the fun.

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Yeah, I'm the same way. I get the tactical advantage of the "summon cat familiar" but I don't find imagining my character summoning a cat so it can get killed by a brain monster to be much fun. I stopped using the spell once I understood how it was implemented.

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It should just cost you your action if the imp attacks - this shouldn't be too hard to implement. And then add the 'Help' combat option, and everything's fine smile

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Originally Posted by Nyanko
Well, it seems warlocks have potential for a lone wolf playthrough.


Until they are nerfed

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I dont understand why it needs a nerf, its the same familiar you get in d&d, its not a normal familiar, its a lvl 3 pact boon familiar, you dont see it now as you dont have the options but you are loosing a lot, for choosing that familiar.

In the end the warlock will chose between:
- imp familiar, is good yes a lot, has invis, flight and damage (a spider, bat or crow familiar is also really good for exploring, not for damage. The hunter animal companion is better for combat)
- a book that lets you cast rituals from ANY class and gives you free cantrips of other classes (this is considered the stronger option in general in p&p)
- free magic weapon that can be summoned in your hand (you cant be disarmed when entering a trial, or in any other way)

Also even if the familiar seams strong at lvl 3, remember it does not become stronger with lvls, is always an imp.







Last edited by Akari; 09/10/20 09:58 AM.
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There is a huge flaw in the current chain warlock. I just soloed an entire encounter with my imp. Just send him into combat alone, sneak up and kill one goblin, invis and fly away. Rinse and repeat until all are dead. I killed off the entire ambush just before the goblin camp in less than 5 minutes this way. This may taper off later in game, but as of now, its pretty ridiculous.

Edit: forgot to say, if the imp dies, just summon it again for free and send him back in until they are all dead. The NPCs won't come chasing you as long as you're far enough away from the combat area.

Last edited by Khiran; 09/10/20 09:59 PM.
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Also, aggravates the hell out of me that they cannot open a door.

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Scouting is something spellcaster would want most from familiar.
In P&P GMs should reward player for proceeding with situation smart way, not other way around. IN CRPGs it's hardly different.
You absolutely SHOULD try to scout around as much as you can.

As of attacks. It's actually need a buff, as familiars doesn't scale up with spellcaster at all, and very quickly become useless completely.
Even though 5e doesn't provide rules with familiar scaling, there are good examples how familiars should scale in Pathfinder 2e. Something that would be nice if Larian would implement similar mechanics in BG3.

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There's currently a bug where the Quasit can open doors - enjoy it while it lasts!

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Originally Posted by AlexeyK
Originally Posted by Medirby
2: A warlock's imp is able to attack normally in D&D 5e so that's no true shock. Enemies not attacking it back is a really weird though. That sounds more like a bug, or enemies are designed to just flat out ignore familiars and go for the summoners.

Warlock's Pact of the Chain familiars are able to attack, but at the cost of one attack of the warlock. PHB, p 107: "Additionally, when you take the Attack action, you can forgo one of your own attacks to allow your familiar to use its reaction to make one attack of its own."


That's not the same thing as the Imp having an attack. That is an additional attack action the Warlock's Familiar is able to make on the Warlock's turn. It isn't using an attack action it's using a reaction, while you use an attack action.

Familiars have their own turns, and while most familiars are unable to make attacks, Pact of the Chain special familiars can. So there is nothing wrong with the Imp being able to attack.

Honestly, most of the complaints are just how Pact of the Chain works in Table Top. Imps are pretty broken, and always have been.

The thing that's missing is the ability to cast touch spells through your familiar. In the case of an Imp it doesn't break invisibility because the Imp isn't casting the spell, just channeling it. That is where the 100ft limitation comes in.

Last edited by Kal Spiro; 09/10/20 10:30 PM.
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Originally Posted by Akari
I dont understand why it needs a nerf, its the same familiar you get in d&d, its not a normal familiar, its a lvl 3 pact boon familiar, you dont see it now as you dont have the options but you are loosing a lot, for choosing that familiar.

In the end the warlock will chose between:
- imp familiar, is good yes a lot, has invis, flight and damage (a spider, bat or crow familiar is also really good for exploring, not for damage. The hunter animal companion is better for combat)
- a book that lets you cast rituals from ANY class and gives you free cantrips of other classes (this is considered the stronger option in general in p&p)
- free magic weapon that can be summoned in your hand (you cant be disarmed when entering a trial, or in any other way)

Also even if the familiar seams strong at lvl 3, remember it does not become stronger with lvls, is always an imp.


This.

The imp is quite fine. It can't challenge anything stronger than a low level goblin. Imps have invisibility in the d&d world, it's their thing along with the poison. Since you forego a lot of power by getting a familiar, it should be able to take out a goblin on its own.

It should have darkvision tho, as written in the rule system.

Last edited by Skarpharald; 09/10/20 10:38 PM.
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Objectively, yes the imp is too strong for what it is. And it's infinitely castable. However, at the moment what makes it far too strong is the fact that enemies completely ignore the imp for some reason. I've used the imp for a few hours of gameplay, and not once did it die. And to put things into perspective, here is what that imp accomplished during that timespan:
-Fought the owlbear and cub in the cave alongside the team
-Initiated the fight against the goblins in blighted village and sustained the ENTIRE brunt of the ambush attack (and lived). Subsequently killed 4 goblins single handedly

Perhaps the imp will become less useful in Act 2 and 3, but in Act 1 it's entirely overpowered. It eats up too many enemy attacks (and lives), and does too much damage whilst often going completely ignored in close combat.

The optimal way to balance the imp is to make it castable once per long rest. Other details, such as damage, hp, and infinite roam range are another topic that the developers can decide on.





Last edited by Marktheshark; 09/10/20 10:57 PM.
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Originally Posted by Marktheshark

The optimal way to balance the imp is to make it castable once per long rest. Other details, such as damage, hp, and infinite roam range are another topic that the developers can decide on.



The infinite roam is an actual warlock invocation, and the familiar should be tethered without it. As an addition, I'd say the first cast be free, but if the familiar dies, it should cost the same amount of gold (or materials) it does in the 5e PHB (or an amount more conducive to the in game economy of BG3). Summoning and dismissing the familiar should only cost an action, until it dies. This is how it works 5e. It also should not disappear on a long rest, as it does now.

As it stands, taking a long rest has no drawbacks, so if your familiar dies, simply take a long rest and get the familiar back. This is pointless for now and brings up and entirely different problem altogether.


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