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Redwyrm Offline OP
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Important thing about P&P RPGS, is that you by no mean meant to earn xp only in combat. If you can resolve the situation without engaging in combat (persuasion, threats, or simply by stealth) - you would still earn full 'combat' xp, from enemies you would fight otherwise.
Of course would later decide to attack foes from which you already earned xp - you will gain no additional xp.

As you understand in CRPG based on D&D it's just as important. If social chck would just clear area of enemies, by will not grant you xp (or not enough xp) - ppl would avoid any social checks, so they would be able to gain more overall xp. And that's unfortunately would be quiet sad experience.

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As example windmill situation.
You can talk out bunch of goblins from attacking you. They all run away and you... gain nothing from it (other than avoiding combat).
"Now that sucks!" first thing most gamers would think right after. Reload. And proceed differently with killing every goblin.
And sucks it is, if game properly rewards only when you aim for killing anything that moves.

Now of course it still wouldn't be equal situation. Ran away enemies still will carry all their "loot" with them (with exception of unique encounters, where you actually might convince enemy party drop all their loot and gear).
But nevertheless you should be awarded equal amount of experience from resolving potential conflict nonviolent way.

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Lots of people are pointing this out, i really hope they listen

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They could even have an optional Milestone XP mode where they just level you up at certain points in the story... does away with the mentality of needing to grind xp and instead just get through the game how you like.

But even without milestone, still big agree. Losing out is already a penalty for not murder-hoboing everything, dont gimp XP too. For D&D you want to reward more interesting behaviour instead of just encouraging everyone to murder hobo everything... makes for better stories. Not saying people can't just go murder hobo if they want, but it shouldn't be the 'best' way to play and reach highest level and best gear.

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yeah this is a long running issue in divinity 1 and 2 as well.
It's too common for any player in div (at least in multiplayer) to kill all the map's npc before leaving the map for good!! I mean there is hardly any downside to it!

suggestions:

as it might be hard for them to implant a calculation on kill vs quest reward xp, I suggest they give xp on the "encounter"!
so if you survive a fight encounter regardless of how it ended you will be rewarded the same amount of xp as talking it out.

also if you stealing or mugging you will get no xp for it so it will balance out the players that choose not to do it. (but you will be mugging a person for goods so that is a reward for itself! )

Last edited by Weekend; 09/10/20 10:18 PM.
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Currently in a situation in game which is a classic example of where this could be implemented.

Hag's Lair - masked servants fight: despite the fact there are obvious reasons not to want to slaughter these people, various alternative solutions aren't available. Whether through stealth and pickpocketing (currently their inventory is empty until downed), or through a grapple action in combat, we should be able to remove these masks to set the people free. Even if I use the knockout finisher on the opponent, and remove the mask from their inventory, they remain under the spell.


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Originally Posted by Redwyrm
If you can resolve the situation without engaging in combat (persuasion, threats, or simply by stealth) - you would still earn full 'combat' xp, from enemies you would fight otherwise.
Of course would later decide to attack foes from which you already earned xp - you will gain no additional xp.


Yes! It would be nice to have.

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Yes there's no incentive to find a non-violent way out of an encounter if the result is you miss out on XP. Finding non-violent ways out of encounters should also be rewarded comparably.

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Originally Posted by Vaughann722
Yes there's no incentive to find a non-violent way out of an encounter if the result is you miss out on XP. Finding non-violent ways out of encounters should also be rewarded comparably.


True, but 5e also got this covered - basically everything, from non-combat and social encounters, to traps and skill checks, can be assigned a challenge rating (CR), and thus a corresponding XP value.

Last edited by WarBaby2; 09/10/20 11:40 PM.
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Originally Posted by someoneinatree
Currently in a situation in game which is a classic example of where this could be implemented.

Hag's Lair - masked servants fight: despite the fact there are obvious reasons not to want to slaughter these people, various alternative solutions aren't available. Whether through stealth and pickpocketing (currently their inventory is empty until downed), or through a grapple action in combat, we should be able to remove these masks to set the people free. Even if I use the knockout finisher on the opponent, and remove the mask from their inventory, they remain under the spell.



SOmething like this tells me they weren't actually ready to make a DnD game but another DoS game with slight rpg nods. Seems they just want us to murder hobo through the whole game

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It would be nice, that you would get the same xp for talk and for fights regardless what you chose.

Although the fact that they do not have xp for conversation could have some benefits too, so nothing is influencing the way you play, so you would not reload for a success check.

Last edited by Minsc1122; 09/10/20 11:42 PM.
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Originally Posted by Minsc1122
Although the fact that they do not have xp for conversation could have some benefits too, so nothing is influencing the way you play, so you would not reload for a success check.


Yea but the problem is that you have to kill everything that moves to get the xp

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+1

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Originally Posted by Denzla
Originally Posted by Minsc1122
Although the fact that they do not have xp for conversation could have some benefits too, so nothing is influencing the way you play, so you would not reload for a success check.


Yea but the problem is that you have to kill everything that moves to get the xp


True

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Honestly I've always been far more of a fan of exp/progression systems based on "goals" rather than single actions.

Vampire Bloodlines comes to mind: if your sub-goal in a quest is, say, "Get rid of these thugs in the courtyard" you get your same two-three talent points by getting rid of them, regardless of how you achieve it.
And yes, you can also reward a blatantly better solution more, if you want. But it's the implicit balance of the system that works, in general.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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Originally Posted by Tuco
Honestly I've always been far more of a fan of exp/progression systems based on "goals" rather than single actions.


Agreed. Encounter-based XP works the best, so that you get the a reward regardless of how you reach a resolution for the encounter... and potentially scale the XP depending on how challenging the method you chose is.

Last edited by someoneinatree; 10/10/20 12:14 AM.
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Agreed, I hope non-combat alternatives are also rewarded with XP.

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I agree with this too. It could be like in the Witcher 3, where you get different xp depending on what you do, but you get some xp regardless.

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Yep.

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Originally Posted by Redwyrm
Important thing about P&P RPGS, is that you by no mean meant to earn xp only in combat. If you can resolve the situation without engaging in combat (persuasion, threats, or simply by stealth) - you would still earn full 'combat' xp, from enemies you would fight otherwise.
Of course would later decide to attack foes from which you already earned xp - you will gain no additional xp.

As you understand in CRPG based on D&D it's just as important. If social chck would just clear area of enemies, by will not grant you xp (or not enough xp) - ppl would avoid any social checks, so they would be able to gain more overall xp. And that's unfortunately would be quiet sad experience.



I totally agree with this, Larian please don't make me kill everything I meet just for the exp, I mean we have all these skills and it is exciting when you need a high roll to persuade someone to walk away and you succeed but instead I find myself just rushing through the talking because it has become meaningless and you just want to skip past the conversation to get to the part were you have to kill them to get exp, the writers would feel cheated for all their hard work wink

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