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#685314 10/10/20 04:49 AM
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She acts evil, tells you she's evil and then later, tells you she's evil again but acts like it's a secret she's been trying to hide. She gets a little more specific this time, but still...
Why I consider this bad writing is, she treats it as if it's a secret of incredible importance, while acting like an obvious psychopath.

She has "people in the city" and it seems like they're supposed to be very secretive, but her behavior and edgy screen name would have them all found out with very little investigation.

Instead of trying and failing to hide this, several times, she should just lie. I don't remember the exact line, but she says something like, if people knew what I was, they'd hunt me down and kill me.

You'd think she wouldn't want to allude to what she is at all, ever. Is she stupid, the worst liar ever or secretly working against Shar?

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Seems like someone just didn't liked here because she is a wifu material.
Her writing definitely one of the best. Very believable, providing who she is...

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I never had the impression she was "evil" to begin with, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.
A bit sassy at times, at most.


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Originally Posted by Tuco
I never had the impression she was "evil" to begin with, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.
A bit sassy at times, at most.

I don't know, there is that bit where she starts breathing heavy while talking about torture techniques after Raphael drops in for tea

Last edited by DistantStranger; 10/10/20 03:28 PM.
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I think she’s conflicted between her own morality and loyalty to Shar. Maybe they could do a little more to show this though, but as you begin to know her better you start to realise that.

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After playing EA I changed my mind on Shadowheart. My reaction to her was very negative when the companions were announced. Some things haven't changed, but as it is now, she is definitely the most fleshed out companion. She gets a lot more of dialogue options, and more often appears in random cutscenes. She is the most chatty of the bunch, ironically.

What I do think is that her appeareance is very badly designed. Don't get me wrong, she looks amazing, but are our characters truly that oblivious? It is very clear in the way that she is dressed that she is a sharran. Yet it is supposed to be some sort of big secret...?

[Linked Image]


Shadowheart: Alright. My secret is I worship Shar. There, I said it, please don't overreact.
Player: OH MAI GAD GIRL RLY? I'M A CLERIC AND I TOTALLY DIDN'T NOTICE. U SO SNEAKY TEE HEE.

P.S: I ended up romancing Shadowheart in my playthrough, completely unplanned. And I've ranted and hated on her nonstop on this forums. How awkward that was.


Last edited by Goldberry; 10/10/20 03:43 PM.
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Originally Posted by Goldberry
After playing EA I changed my mind on Shadowheart. My reaction to her was very negative when the companions were announced. Some things haven't changed, but as it is now, she is definitely the most fleshed out companion. She gets a lot more of dialogue options, and more often appears in random cutscenes. She is the most chatty of the bunch, ironically.

What I do think is that her appeareance is very badly designed. Don't get me wrong, she looks amazing, but are our characters truly that oblivious? It is very clear in the way that she is dressed that she is a sharran. Yet it is supposed to be some sort of big secret...?

[Linked Image]


Shadowheart: Alright. My secret is I worship Shar. There, I said it, please don't overreact.
Player: OH MAI GAD GIRL RLY? I'M A CLERIC AND I TOTALLY DIDN'T NOTICE. U SO SNEAKY TEE HEE.

P.S: I ended up romancing Shadowheart in my playthrough, completely unplanned. And I've ranted and hated on her nonstop on this forums. How awkward that was.


Far not everyone in Faerun religion-educated. And Shar is not a goddess about whom common folks knows a lot.

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It's a complex character with a possibly complicated and long character arc and development. It's not bad writing because you have trouble figuring out her motives - if anything it's good writing.

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I wouldn't characterize it as bad writing as much as sort of predictable. That said, there is nothing wrong with somewhat predictable aspects of a character's backstory or behavior. Telegraphing some of the characters motives and such to an extent is necessary, and writers do have to be mindful of finding that middle ground of meeting people who are bad at reading people and folks who do not know much of the faerun lore to begin with. Characters in the old BlackIsle games weren't exactly deep either, and while I don't think we need to hold those as the standard, it is worth keeping in mind perspective wise.

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I have not seen the story far enough to know if she does anything really evil in comparison to what good characters would do, other than she worships a very shady deity :P Beyond the pun, Shar is shady in the sense her plots in some novels are sometimes super evil, but also sometimes more cosmic gray as formerly she was a side of Selune.

Anyhow, back to Shadowheart : her positions, from what I have seen, are not really more evil than what some good characters would do. She does not trust easily and politely suggest believing a devil is foolish. She does not believe Laezel's community will save us: no shit, a rather rational and wise conclusion. They logically purify you in fire, and for good reason!

AGAIN, I have not seen the story very far yet ... To be followed.

Nb : That said, if I were in the game, I would not trust her, because following Shar means you are most probably a bit insane to be honest.

Last edited by Baraz; 10/10/20 05:54 PM.
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Before she told me she worships Shar, she said she wants to murder tons of people in exchange for sex and super powers.

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Dude. She seems super well written to me. She is a cleric of shar, and thus she likes it when you exhibit behaviors that fit the portfolio of her deity like deceiving others. She also hates giving up secrets, even tho she won't risk the superb benefit of traveling with a group that does not want to kill her and might help her with a certain parasite problem. She even hates it when you tell her "you can trust me" because that makes you seem like a gullible moron in her eyes. She would find the situation she finds herself in very uncomfortable which is portrayed super well. If you manage to befriend her somewhat she makes more and more sense, and if you role play something close to her she makes perfect sense, even the power hunger.

I think all the EA companions are really well written, and once you figure out WHO THEY ARE they make perfect sense. They could use some tuning OF COURSE, but for EA they seem super proimising.

I think people find issue with the companions due to the fact that they act their personalities, and thus do not always think like the player does. It's like in real life when people shun or belittle others because their ideas don't match their own - they are obviously just "pricks" or "uneducated" or something along those lines. In this case it's "poorly written". Yes they seem immoral to a "good" player, but they do not to an "evil" player.

Last edited by Skarpharald; 10/10/20 08:01 PM.
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Originally Posted by Cowoline
It's a complex character with a possibly complicated and long character arc and development. It's not bad writing because you have trouble figuring out her motives - if anything it's good writing.


+1

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She doesn't wear the symbol of Shar on her armor when you meet her. There's another symbol on her chest piece.

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Is Shadowheart actually evil? I keep reading that she is, so I must be missing something (other than her goddess, obviously). Shadowheart herself . . . really, really doesn't seem it. She likes when you avoid fights and are nice to animals. Maybe she gets a little too excited by that priest of Lovitar, but she's also willing to chime in and use her knowledge of torture to help you rescue someone. Her personality seems very nurture vs nature, especially given that she herself claims not to remember much about her past except what flowers she likes. And her dialogue after saving the tieflings is downright soft (as opposed to Asterion's pouting, which made me cackle).

Overall, she's been a pretty good fit for a my good-yet-practical character. I'm calling future redemption arc where she ends up worshiping Selune or something, should players steer her that way. There will be this huge moment where you learn her true name and she realizes she's been manipulated someway.

Shadowheart seems perhaps a little cliche, not going to lie, in the whole "purehearted damsel twisted by her upbringing" vibe that I personally get from her. Sure, she claims to be evil. But her approval notifications show she really just wants to cuddle puppies.

Still, I don't think there's any issue with her writing, which is great imo. (Except maybe continuity, since Gale and Asterion confused me with their comments that assumed I knew stuff about them that I didn't. That didn't happen with Shadowheart, since I found out about Shar pretty early. But that's a fixable EA thing.)

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I think the player only knows that shes hiding stuff at times because of the tadpole. She doesent blurt out random lines of 'but im totally not hiding something!' or something like that...

So ironcally, shes very good at hiding it, But we learn about it because we read parts of her mind.

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Originally Posted by wildelight
Is Shadowheart actually evil? I keep reading that she is, so I must be missing something (other than her goddess, obviously). Shadowheart herself . . . really, really doesn't seem it. She likes when you avoid fights and are nice to animals. Maybe she gets a little too excited by that priest of Lovitar, but she's also willing to chime in and use her knowledge of torture to help you rescue someone. Her personality seems very nurture vs nature, especially given that she herself claims not to remember much about her past except what flowers she likes. And her dialogue after saving the tieflings is downright soft (as opposed to Asterion's pouting, which made me cackle).

Overall, she's been a pretty good fit for a my good-yet-practical character. I'm calling future redemption arc where she ends up worshiping Selune or something, should players steer her that way. There will be this huge moment where you learn her true name and she realizes she's been manipulated someway.

Shadowheart seems perhaps a little cliche, not going to lie, in the whole "purehearted damsel twisted by her upbringing" vibe that I personally get from her. Sure, she claims to be evil. But her approval notifications show she really just wants to cuddle puppies.

Still, I don't think there's any issue with her writing, which is great imo. (Except maybe continuity, since Gale and Asterion confused me with their comments that assumed I knew stuff about them that I didn't. That didn't happen with Shadowheart, since I found out about Shar pretty early. But that's a fixable EA thing.)


Just like I didn't like Shadowheart at first, I didn't like Astarion. After having some unique encounters where astarion was present, and him making some remarks to situations that were REALLY fresh in an RPG, I totally love the guy. Astarion is incredibly well written and the animations highten this. In one situation he even seemed to resemble a cat, more predator than "human", and with the playfulness that comes with a cat. Really cool stuff.

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All their origin characters are kind of poorly written angsty throw aways I can't wait to remove in some way immediately once I can just make 4 custom characters

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Shadowheart's secret is also explained in her character sheet from the moment you get her in your party.

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I dont personally think shes evil... on one of my play throughs she actually remarked it felt good having helped the tieflings in the grove and seemed worried what shar might think of that...

Not sure i like the alignment-less approach to d&d to be honest... not to say we need to know what alignment an npc right away but right now there seems to be a completely fluid feel to alignment based on convenience/desired story outcome... not great for immersion imo...

I actually liked her character most out of all of them... could jyst be my heterness showing but probably would say i found her most believable also... dont particularly like the, everyones ready to jump my character, feel to the others... even with the possibility i could mindflayer out halfway through lol! ...back off a bit, wtf... ;D

Last edited by Llev; 11/01/21 08:31 PM.
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