Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Oct 2020
vel Offline
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
I'm not save scumming for dialog rolls. Forcing yourself to live with it is very much part of D&D / RP. Failures become part of your story.

I think Larian should do a better job of introducing that concept, though. Anyone coming into this without a D&D background or RPG min/max mentality will just hate the rolls.

Joined: Oct 2020
T
stranger
Offline
stranger
T
Joined: Oct 2020
As I was explaining on another forum, the problem is not the dice rolls per se. It's locking the player choice behind a dice roll.

Every GM worth its salt knows not to lock content behind a dice roll because, in that case, it's the dice playing and not the player.
There are rolls that don't influence the story so heavily and they can just be a "pass/fail" because maybe they give just some more information, or advantage on a situation but there must be always a way for the players to reach the end of a (side/main) story without rolling a single stat check.

The stat check should be there to simplify the resolution to something, not to lock stuff out of reach. That's just horrible design.

Last edited by theCrius; 10/10/20 01:34 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
Let them be, but lower the number of them. Five dice rolls in one conversation is crazy, even for an RPG session. :V

Joined: Sep 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Sep 2020
I love the dice roll and flat "If I have the skill level, I win" checks are boring and are not engaging. I'd rather have a chance of something going right when it likely shouldn't or wrong when it probably couldn't than being some god who always nails it just because I'm good at it. Mistakes happen, and dice rolls reflect that. No thanks to the change, it's great as-is.


I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought.

Joined: Jan 2009
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
Nope. This is a bad "hot take".

Joined: Oct 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
Nope, love the dice.

Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Absolutely not.

Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
The problem with dice rolls isn't really the Skill Check mechanic in itself, the issue is more that succesful Skill Checks are gateways to plot content not necessarily with any reward involved, and failed Skill Checks are hard stops rather than being punitive in some way but still allowing you access to the plot content (or alternate, more dangerous/punitive ways to access it).

Joined: Oct 2020
C
stranger
Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Oct 2020
I think instead of fighting pro or contra dice rolls, it should like all things be an OPTION, just like difficulty settings, this way player who wish to experience a 1-try-live-with-it can still enjoy their experience, and also people who want to play for the story/plot and create a specific character personality/story should have the option to disable the dice or roll only above 15. None of these play styles are 'superior' so gatekeeping it helps nobody it just makes some people's egos inflate by making their style feel like the correct/superior one. Having it be an option would satisfy both players who want a challenge and enjoy the playstyle of classic D&D, and it would also help people who want specific outcomes and do not have dozens of hours to replay/reload until they achieved the desired result. I have tried both ways, and if you want specific results expect to spend 60-70% of your game reloading and dice-rolling, which gets tiring and annoying after 1-2 hours. So again, I believe they should consider simply adding it to the options menu, such as a game difficulty and under a dice difficulty (easy - above 15; medium - above 8; hard - randomized/normal) or have an option to enable/disable it.

Joined: Oct 2020
A
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
A
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by L337Fool
Lets be realistic, how many people are really abiding by the honor system with encounters requiring checks so that they aren't just saying and reloading every other second till it goes their way. It really makes the game a bit more of a grind than it has to be restarting every few minutes. I feel like a straight stat check (you either have it or you don't) or a faster save and load feature would greatly improve the playability of the game. Yes, I realize this may make some people cringe but does rolling a virtual dice really do it for anyone? At the very least just make the dice rolls optional (like a classic game mode) along with a straight stat check. I feel improving the situation from where it stands now would lead to a far more enjoyable and accessible experience.


I completely and utterly disagree.
The social rolling is what makes this game stand out, it makes it feel like a DnD game. If you can't handle the outcomes then that's on you, don't take away something that gives the game a lot of dynamics. I love having to live with the consequences, that's a part of the DnD experience.


Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Aurgelmir
Originally Posted by L337Fool
Lets be realistic, how many people are really abiding by the honor system with encounters requiring checks so that they aren't just saying and reloading every other second till it goes their way. It really makes the game a bit more of a grind than it has to be restarting every few minutes. I feel like a straight stat check (you either have it or you don't) or a faster save and load feature would greatly improve the playability of the game. Yes, I realize this may make some people cringe but does rolling a virtual dice really do it for anyone? At the very least just make the dice rolls optional (like a classic game mode) along with a straight stat check. I feel improving the situation from where it stands now would lead to a far more enjoyable and accessible experience.


I completely and utterly disagree.
The social rolling is what makes this game stand out, it makes it feel like a DnD game. If you can't handle the outcomes then that's on you, don't take away something that gives the game a lot of dynamics. I love having to live with the consequences, that's a part of the DnD experience.



I try to playing the game as the dice falls, except in specific circumstances. For example with my evil Dwarf Warlock I decided that it was okay to re-roll intimidation rolls and stuff that seemed to lead to evil choices in general, because it would suck to be gated off from the content I want to play by a bad dice roll. This is why the Skill Check mechanic needs to be re-evaluated, failed Skill Checks shouldn't (always/necessarily) block you from doing stuff, rather it should "have a cost" and still allow you to access the content or let you access a diiferent approach to the problem that is worse than if you had simply succeeded the roll.

Joined: Oct 2020
T
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
T
Joined: Oct 2020
Hell no. That's what makes it feel like D&D. Don't listen to em' Larian!

Joined: May 2014
D
member
Offline
member
D
Joined: May 2014
For skill checks, take 10 can be an option in settings for those don't like dicing rolls.

Joined: May 2019
veteran
Online Content
veteran
Joined: May 2019
Dice checks for every single line in a conversation is not D&D. There is not a decent DM in the world who would do that in their game. Their players would just reach over the table and strangle them. I am all for skill checks. In principle I love having them in the game. But yes, it is indisputable that they are very excessive here.

Last edited by kanisatha; 14/10/20 04:26 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Dice checks for every single line in a conversation is not D&D. There is not a decent DM in the world who would do that in their game. Their players would just reach over the table and strangle them. I am all for skill checks. In principle I love having them in the game. But yes, it is indisputable that they are very excessive here.


Excessive, or Larian needs to re-evaluate how success/fail is handled.

Joined: Oct 2020
A
stranger
Offline
stranger
A
Joined: Oct 2020
Rather than being rid of the dice rolls entirely, they should really rebalance the RNG on the dice rolls.

Any fan of a strategy rpg can tell you that what IS random and what FEELS random to a player is actually very different.

There are two big factors. 1) The average person subconciously balances stats and makes illogical calculations in their head before they roll the dice. If they have the know how, they might conciously adjust, but you'd be surprised what the subconscious mind can do to our mental math. 2) People are used to irl dice, which themselves aren't actually as random as assumed. Yet the odds of dice are what many are conditioned to view as random and thereby, divergence from this in RNG feels off.

As of now, the dice really do feel off, according to the accounts of multiple players I've seen on this forum, on Twitter and friends I've spoken to about the game, most find themselves getting uneven odds, rolling the same number repeatedly, over-and-over or just the same range of numbers with few to no expecptions. I do not believe Larian is using actual randomness based on these results; but they are not replicating that falsified sweet spot of cathartic "randomness" irl dice and some other games manage to hit.

My other suggestion might be that Larian preview the minimum number a dice must hit in order to succeed BEFORE the player commits to a course of action. Random example with deeply exaggerated numbers: if I take a special wisdom roll, knowing I have relatively high wisdom and find it's a 15 min that I've committed to and I lose I'm gonna feel fairly cheated out of other options I found appealing (and that might have had better odds, but I'll never know). Vs. if that says I must roll 5 and I lose it's a shrug off, "can't win them all" scenario, but I still feel confident I was making the right choice given the info and the character I play. Allowing the player to make more informed decisions can make the result more satisfying regardless of the adjustments made to rolls. Players should be able to tell apart and consent to high risk vs low risk rolls to foster a sense of agency.



Last edited by Anam; 14/10/20 06:21 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
T
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
T
Joined: Oct 2020
The dice stay if I had the final say in this lol

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Why is this a thread? There is 0% chance of it happening. Pick a realistic suggestion on how to have a better dice experience. Close thread, start one thats worth talking about.


What is the problem you are solving? Does your proposed change solve the problem? Is your change feasible? What else will be affected by your change? Will your change impact revenue? Does your change align with the goals and strategies of the organizations (Larian, WotC)?
Joined: Aug 2015
S
member
Offline
member
S
Joined: Aug 2015
ome people don't want to play a game of dice, they want to be lucky in a game of dice. I've had the best laughs from failing social checks, and having my battle plans foiled by a poor die roll means I have to think on my feet. I love my dice!

Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
The dice are one of the most incredible features I've seen in an rpg. Dice are fantastic. Had more fun with this EA than most RPGs I've played, much of that is due to the dice.

Larian already said that they will include a "loaded die" feature for those people who would prefer that.

Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5