Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 10 of 16 1 2 8 9 10 11 12 15 16
Joined: Dec 2020
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Dec 2020
Originally Posted by Dexai
I want games to service me, which means less bra and thong armour for both men and women.

And that is why the game developing business needs more clones of me in it.
Perfect reply

Going back to the main topic of this thread: @Goldberry summarized perfectly what I wasn't being able to point out exactly why Elf faces were bothering me so much. They mostly look human. I think there are only two female Elf faces that fits the category nicely, and that is it. I remember actually going for a half-elf character because he looked more elven than elves, lol. So yeah, I absolutely agree with this thread.

On a side note, I saw you mention that there were few interactions based on your High-Elf race, I was wondering if that's because maybe when Larian made the "high-elf" subrace they meant only Moon elves, which are more common

Joined: Dec 2020
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Dec 2020
Originally Posted by Starlights
Originally Posted by Goldberry
Quote
Actually, you guys are going a little too off-topic now.

Well, comparing photos between genders will inevitably bring something sexist along the way and that's how I felt invited to come n' chipping in.

Originally Posted by Goldberry
Quote
I still think that all of the half elven heads are better than all of the elven heads.

Perhaps it respect some universal rules about beauty, mixte-race "generally" has a better percentage for beauty. That was established by Darwin, though the study is a bit more complex than that.

Nonetheless, female characters seems to be design to attracts the boys & the lunatics with false belief that 80% of gamers are boys .. and the few of us girls, (according to that false assumption) we get the last pic in the bag of faces for male characters IF we want the equivalent.

That, perhaps, is a sign that there's a need for more female game developers. If we had more female dev, there would be more equity between genders and to the point, between races - that's quite an assumption I'm making here.

So basically, once again, with the example about the Githyanki's armour, it would have the same look on a female character or male character - either we see the butt cheek for both male/female or both are fully padded or adjusted the same way. (I don't like the fully padded, neither the "butt cheek" version, I would adjusted so it's not that "sexy" and it's not that big either).

-S

Why are people complaining about beautiful women? We like to look at attractive people, we are a vain species, pretending otherwise is coping, the Men are just as attractive in this game so I don't see the arguement. It seems like people are less concerned with elves looking too human, and more concerned over half elves "looking better" than actual elves in their opinion, because they BOTH look pretty human. Video games should not serve as platforms to boost players own self esteem, there's people to talk to for that, they should look representitive of the artist direction. I honestly feel for these developers, because they're trying to portray their own artistic vision, while having to deal with the various people with their own personal issues who think the artist's work should cater to them specifically and be their own personal therapy so to speak, and when you have a bunch of different people wanting different things specifically catered to them, that direction gets lost, part of the reason these big AAA developers have been stumbling in this era of games is listening TOO much to player feedback, or atleast not the right kind of constructive feedback, rather they listen to the people who think they should make their game. Trying to make games for everyone, instead of the game they set out to make. "Why isn't this character this sexuality I wanted to romance that one!" "why does this character look this way, it should look like how I want". This not only damages characters in the development process, but the entire game as a whole. Anyway having more female developers =/= a better product, afterall more females at CD projekt red worked on Cyberpunk 2077 than they did on Witcher 3, and one of those games became one of the biggest rpg's of all time, the other, the biggest blunder since Fallout 76. So gender does not make a product good. Talent does, only talent

Apologies for the mini rant, but i'm just tired of this rhetoric, this rhetoric has already destroyed many of the AAA developers from Bioware to Bethesda to now CD Projekt and people insist on destroying the few we have left making quality games. Gamers need to get back to constructive criticisms, gaming mechanics, combat, writing etc etc and stop trying to turn the games into their own personal mod. Just play Skyrim instead and you can morph the entire game how you see fit LOL

But yes, most gamers are boys that's a fact, infact despite Ubisoft making Kassandra of Assassins Creed the canon character 80% of players still chose Alexios. And it was the same for Mass Effect and Commander Shepard, despite how hard they pushed femshep after 3. What does that tell you. Keep in mind here no one is saying girls aren't or can't be gamers, boys can play with barbies too. But the fact is, barbies are by and large sold to girls.

Last edited by Vallis; 08/01/21 07:40 PM.
Joined: Dec 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Dec 2020
Originally Posted by Vallis
Apologies for the mini rant, but i'm just tired of this rhetoric, this rhetoric has already destroyed many of the AAA developers from Bioware to Bethesda to now CD Projekt and people insist on destroying the few we have left making quality games. Gamers need to get back to constructive criticisms, gaming mechanics, combat, writing etc etc and stop trying to turn the games into their own personal mod. Just play Skyrim instead and you can morph the entire game how you see fit LOL

But yes, most gamers are boys that's a fact, infact despite Ubisoft making Kassandra of Assassins Creed the canon character 80% of players still chose Alexios. And it was the same for Mass Effect and Commander Shepard, despite how hard they pushed femshep after 3. What does that tell you. Keep in mind here no one is saying girls aren't or can't be gamers, boys can play with barbies too. But the fact is, barbies are by in large sold to girls.
I completely agree with this. I'd also like to remind the people who brought up sexism to look at the media catering to women and tell me how often they see hot, shirtless guys fawning over a totally average female protagonist and how that's any different from games with a mostly male audience having their females look attractive. Games cater to their main demographics. Both sexes like eye candy, both have self insert protags, who cares? There are games out there with fat, covered up women where everything is pastel and no one is sexy if you want them but those games fail to bring in an audience for a reason.

Joined: May 2016
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: May 2016
Originally Posted by Vallis
Why are people complaining about beautiful women?

No one is complaining about that. Please quote the complaint.

Originally Posted by Vallis
Men are just as attractive in this game.

Your subjective opinion vs other peoples subjective opinion.

Originally Posted by Vallis
people with their own personal issues who think the artist's work should cater to them specifically.

In a way. This is an RPG, character creator should have options, DIFFERENT options, not a lot of very similar ones.

Originally Posted by Vallis
So gender does not make a product good. Talent does, only talent.

True, gender of devs is completely irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Vallis
Gamers need to get back to constructive criticisms.

TBH, this topic is pretty constructive by OP, we just derailed it, sexism was a little side note. Elves in this game don't look elfy, it's not lore friendly.

Originally Posted by Talking Skull
I'd also like to remind the people who brought up sexism to look at the media catering to women and tell me how often they see hot, shirtless guys fawning over a totally average female protagonist and how that's any different from games with a mostly male audience having their females look attractive.

Most of us just want equality tbh. If there are a lot of beautiful female faces, there should be as many beautiful male faces, if there are a lot of old male faces, there should be a lot of old female faces, if an armor shows buttcheeks it should show buttcheeks on males and females both, if an armor looks practical it should also look practical on both etc. Zero problems with sexy, so long as it is for both sexes in equal amount AND ( this is important ) exactly the same way.

Last edited by Kadajko; 08/01/21 07:56 PM.
Joined: Dec 2020
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Dec 2020
Originally Posted by Talking Skull
Originally Posted by Vallis
Apologies for the mini rant, but i'm just tired of this rhetoric, this rhetoric has already destroyed many of the AAA developers from Bioware to Bethesda to now CD Projekt and people insist on destroying the few we have left making quality games. Gamers need to get back to constructive criticisms, gaming mechanics, combat, writing etc etc and stop trying to turn the games into their own personal mod. Just play Skyrim instead and you can morph the entire game how you see fit LOL

But yes, most gamers are boys that's a fact, infact despite Ubisoft making Kassandra of Assassins Creed the canon character 80% of players still chose Alexios. And it was the same for Mass Effect and Commander Shepard, despite how hard they pushed femshep after 3. What does that tell you. Keep in mind here no one is saying girls aren't or can't be gamers, boys can play with barbies too. But the fact is, barbies are by in large sold to girls.
I completely agree with this. I'd also like to remind the people who brought up sexism to look at the media catering to women and tell me how often they see hot, shirtless guys fawning over a totally average female protagonist and how that's any different from games with a mostly male audience having their females look attractive. Games cater to their main demographics. Both sexes like eye candy, both have self insert protags, who cares? There are games out there with fat, covered up women where everything is pastel and no one is sexy if you want them but those games fail to bring in an audience for a reason.

100%, and even the super crazy tumblr-types would agree in secret, despite how much some push unnattractive people as ideal in their art and protest beauty, they don't actually believe that nor want those types and often times, desire people well above their own station. Before the tumblr nsfw ban almost every nsfw blog was of hot jock males LOL

Originally Posted by Kadajko
[quote=Vallis]


Your subjective opinion vs other peoples subjective opinion.

There is nothing subjective about this, this is objectively handsome, just as brad pitt is objectively handsome, you can say he's not your personal taste, but you must acknowledge he is objectively beautiful. Beauty is not an opinion. Some people are objectively sexy, and others objectively repulsive. Attraction though, is subjective.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Joined: Mar 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2020
I wonder if the discussion of gender is helping @goldberry's cause? She's only made one thread to advocate for one issue and I want to see her succeed.

Seems like people want to discuss representation, gender and beauty standards -- which could be great fun. Perhaps someone could make a separate thread about that?

Joined: Dec 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Dec 2020
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
I wonder if the discussion of gender is helping @goldberry's cause? She's only made one thread to advocate for one issue and I want to see her succeed.

Seems like people want to discuss representation, gender and beauty standards -- which could be great fun. Perhaps someone could make a separate thread about that?

I was about to suggest the same thing. There is obviously need to discuss gender and sexism, it would be best to make a thread for that.


As for the original topic: I do agree, that the elves don't look that elvy.


"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."

Doctor Who
Joined: May 2016
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: May 2016
Originally Posted by Vallis
There is nothing subjective about this, this is objectively handsome, just as brad pitt is objectively handsome, you can say he's not your personal taste, but you must acknowledge he is objectively beautiful. Beauty is not an opinion. Some people are objectively sexy, and others objectively repulsive. Attraction though, is subjective.

Even if this were to be true, which it is not, but it is irrelevant to my next point: you don't find it ironic that you posted exactly the ONE face that OP also posted? The one face everyone picks, and it is not an elf face?

Joined: Dec 2020
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Dec 2020
Originally Posted by Kadajko
Originally Posted by Vallis
There is nothing subjective about this, this is objectively handsome, just as brad pitt is objectively handsome, you can say he's not your personal taste, but you must acknowledge he is objectively beautiful. Beauty is not an opinion. Some people are objectively sexy, and others objectively repulsive. Attraction though, is subjective.

you don't find it ironic that you posted exactly the ONE face that OP also posted? The one face everyone picks, and it is not an elf face?

Except it's not. The preset used in OP is head 5 for the half high elf, aka the most baby faced and youngest looking of the half high elf presets. Which is exactly why I called OP out for it, using the most babyfaced preset in the roster to prove that half elves look more "delicate" and elven than the full elves. The preset in the photo above is head 1 for the half high elf and looks drastically older, and very much human, despite some claiming the half elves look "too elf" apparently, i'm like besides the ears, where? LOL

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Joined: May 2016
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: May 2016
Originally Posted by Vallis
Except it's not. The preset used in OP is head 5 for the half high elf, aka the most baby faced and youngest looking of the half high elf presets. Which is exactly why I called OP out for it, using the most babyfaced preset in the roster to prove that half elves look more "delicate" and elven than the full elves. The preset in the photo above is head 1 for the half high elf and looks drastically older, and very much human, despite some claiming the half elves look "too elf" apparently, i'm like besides the ears, where? LOL

Fair enough, my bad. The face expression and the beard made me see the other face. I agree that all faces look human and should be slightly elvenized. That said you were talking about faces looking good while showing off half-elven faces, which are younger looking and more delicate than the elven ones, even if they all look human.

Joined: Dec 2020
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Dec 2020
Complaining about beauty was not the purpose of this thread. The purpose was to discuss Elven feautures and/or the lack of them. Goldberry made her first post absolutely clear.

Joined: Dec 2020
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Dec 2020
Originally Posted by Kadajko
Originally Posted by Vallis
Except it's not. The preset used in OP is head 5 for the half high elf, aka the most baby faced and youngest looking of the half high elf presets. Which is exactly why I called OP out for it, using the most babyfaced preset in the roster to prove that half elves look more "delicate" and elven than the full elves. The preset in the photo above is head 1 for the half high elf and looks drastically older, and very much human, despite some claiming the half elves look "too elf" apparently, i'm like besides the ears, where? LOL

Fair enough, my bad. The face expression and the beard made me see the other face. I agree that all faces look human and should be slightly elvenized. That said you were talking about faces looking good while showing off half-elven faces, which are younger looking and more delicate than the elven ones, even if they all look human.

No harm done, anyway I agree with the first half of your post, although there already are half elf presets that look more elven, though limited choices, I feel they tried to diversify them, you have half elves like preset 1 looking closer to human, and then you have 2-3 (I believe) looking more angular and "pointy" (lol) like the full elves. Which honestly is how it should be. Mixed races don't all look the same, and some half elves should look closer to human and others closer to elven. We will no doubt get more presets with updates, but hopefully they don't compromise the ones they already have. I for one, love the head 1

Joined: Jan 2021
member
Offline
member
Joined: Jan 2021
Originally Posted by Kadajko
Most of us just want equality tbh. If there are a lot of beautiful female faces, there should be as many beautiful male faces, if there are a lot of old male faces, there should be a lot of old female faces, if an armor shows buttcheeks it should show buttcheeks on males and females both, if an armor looks practical it should also look practical on both etc. Zero problems with sexy, so long as it is for both sexes in equal amount AND ( this is important ) exactly the same way.

That ! I agree and straight to what I meant to say. We are on the same page.

Originally Posted by Nyloth
As a girl who love games, this is a very scary thought for me during modern social movements.

I sincerely apologize if I offended or planted some scary thought in your mind. I will remove my post if it's perceived that way. Refer to @Kadajko's comments and hopefully we are ok with that.

-> I agree that half-elves has better faces then the rest of the races - but that should be perceive as a constructive comment/feedback for the dev.
-> The point referring the armor (ref.: Kadajko's comment) should also be perceived as constructive feedback for the dev.
I think that's the best we can come up with before we all end-up on a zoom-call arguing about cosmetics. hehe


OP, this thread is great because we are addressing few points that are interrelated (dotted-line) to one another within the same thread. This is to your credit.

-S

Last edited by Starlights; 09/01/21 07:11 PM.

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After a bit, you realize the pig enjoys it.
Joined: Feb 2020
member
OP Offline
member
Joined: Feb 2020
Originally Posted by A_va
Complaining about beauty was not the purpose of this thread. The purpose was to discuss Elven feautures and/or the lack of them. Goldberry made her first post absolutely clear.

Thank youuuu smile

Originally Posted by Vallis
No harm done, anyway I agree with the first half of your post, although there already are half elf presets that look more elven, though limited choices, I feel they tried to diversify them, you have half elves like preset 1 looking closer to human, and then you have 2-3 (I believe) looking more angular and "pointy" (lol) like the full elves. Which honestly is how it should be. Mixed races don't all look the same, and some half elves should look closer to human and others closer to elven. We will no doubt get more presets with updates, but hopefully they don't compromise the ones they already have. I for one, love the head 1

Well, no one here wants half elves changed if that's what you've gathered from the topic. They look just right.

The topic, again, is that DND has a lot of material on elves and Larian so far seems to have largely ignored it. Besides the trance animation when resting... They look, feel, and behave completely human. For example, If you switched Astarion's race for human, little besides his resting animation would have to be changed. This clearly demonstrates that Larian has no interest in portraying elves in a particularly elven way, writting and recording voice lines takes a lot more time and work, so that's a lost cause to me.

But adding a few face presets for them to have a more classic, dnd feel, is a lot easier and achievable smile

Last edited by Goldberry; 09/01/21 03:44 AM.
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Rugby, UK
Cleric of Innuendo
Offline
Cleric of Innuendo
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Rugby, UK
This thread is drifting, and not in a good direction. Please try to keep to the topic in the title.

We all know that thread drift occurs, but the question of sexism in gaming is probably too large and contentious to remain a simple diversion. Topics concerning sexism (and other 'isms) have a worrying habit of becoming confrontational and toxic. It is a legitimate area of discussion* but this is not the place.



*Do note that this particular area of the forum is for discussion of Larian's BG3 game and not the wider gaming hobby. The RPG Chat area is more suited for discussion about perceived sexism in gaming generally. Note though that even there any descent into toxicity will result in the usual measures being taken.

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
I apologize for previous offtop.

And on the topic, probably, such faces were added to the elves for a change, to please more players. For the same reason, all companions are bisexual. I don't see it as a big problem if Larian just adds more faces. Everyone plays as they want and by whom they want. They also have the biggest ears in the game, very hot.


I don't speak english well, but I try my best. Ty
Joined: Dec 2020
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Dec 2020
"Biggest ears in the game, very hot" xD that's something I can agree with

I also think they should keep the old elf faces but add some new ones, yeah. As long as the new ones are more elven. Makes more sense & pleases (almost) everyone.

Joined: Jan 2021
S
addict
Offline
addict
S
Joined: Jan 2021
To add to the OP, I absolutely agree that there is an issue in the representation of the pure Elf races. smile

The OP perfectly documented the issue, and without some kind of upvote, I'll just say I agree with them.

Joined: Feb 2020
Location: New Zealand
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: New Zealand
Keep the better old faces (Or all of them. The assets are already made, might as well), add new ones that are authentic to moon/sun/wood elves, add meaningful racial dialogue between Elven PCs and NPCs as well as Drow NPCs. Even Dwarves and Elves have history that's fun and so very *typical* of fantasy - completely opposed societies and values, but an acknowledgement of the good in one another and often counting each other as allies in a crisis.

The game as it stands feels like a loosely adapted Faerun setting where a great many characters have been sanded down to accommodate a more generic and less geopolitically nuanced experience (Is that the right term?). It's not been uncommon to see Faerun played as cosmopolitan in my experience, especially in the case of player characters and who they're surrounded by, but I would like to see what makes Faerun itself retained, besides the pure visuals... which they didn't get quite right all across the board either, hence this thread. A good thing we're only in early access, eh? grin

Cultures and their differences from ours are an important and defining distinction of the setting that I adore seeing. I am not, as many here have put it, playing in a fantasy world to draw parallels with my real life. There can be relatability with something utterly alien so long as it's written well, and I still have confidence in Larian's writing team despite not really *feeling* the story so far.

Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Vallis
I disagree. I play a Half elf and they look pretty damn human-esque. The pure elves are easy to tell apart as all their features are more elongated. Half-elves practically look human with slight elven angularity, ears and eyes. The half elves don't all look alike either, that's just one preset, and you chose literally the youngest looking preset of them all for the arguement.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Originally Posted by DumbleDorf
I'm pretty sure I already said it all summarised as 'You can make better looking characters in Oblivion'.

Because the point is that by current standards, Oblivion actually had very atrocious character models and it didn't age well at all, yet somehow BG3 manages to still be worse in 2020.

The small pick of default faces pretty much all look the same. Select a beard then switch through each face and you can barely see any difference at all. They are not sufficient to meet each player's choices or desires in how they want their character to look.

A fully customisable character creation engine like in Oblivion and Skyrim should pretty much be a mandatory requirement for new AAA RPGs.

Sorry, but you can't be serious. There's not a single Elder Scrolls game or Bethesda game in general where you can create an actually good looking NON-nord character without mods. This character creator is miles above ANYTHING in a vanilla Bethesda game. They have the WORST character models in gaming. You could not even create an imperial or breton character in Skyrim without them looking inbred. Of the human presets, only one Nord one came close to looking anything like a normal human. So if you wanted an aesthetic male in Skyrim, you had to play as the one nord preset. There's a reason countless preset overhaul mods exist for skyrim. Almost no one likes their take on character models. All the human race presets in Skyrim were absolutely horrble, and the elves were so awful looking you didn't want to play one. Oblivion was even worse with those potato heads. In this game I actually would not mind playing an elf/half-elf n actual fact the Half elf looks better than the Humans.

As for your small selection complaint. Say it with me. EARLY ACCESS

(APPLAUSE)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well said, Vallis!

Page 10 of 16 1 2 8 9 10 11 12 15 16

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5