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#687571 11/10/20 02:55 AM
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hello all! This is my first time in an EA and making any frm of feedback but here goes. I am pretty far into the EA but haven't finished it.

I love the world and characters so far, but I feel that if we are going to have the option of a custom, we as players need a little bit more importance with our CC. Here is my list on what can be done for the CC.
*SPOILERS*
1. Having a selectable origin that is mostly roleplay in nature.
- *mostly* is the keyword. A purpose that involves a quest or two to push the CC forward like everyone else would integrate us with everyone more.
- ex. The drow we meet in goblin fortress could be someone I am hunting as a Lolth sworn drow or someone that forced me to leave the undercity if I'm not Lolth Sworn.
2. Have certain "CC origins" that could actually coincide with an Origin Character's story. So instead of a bystander, i am more of a active participant.
- Currently I feel more importance as a CC when I play a Githyanki, because my story merges with laezal which causes my story to become more integrated with a Origin story. When I save Laezal and she tells more to find a Creshe, I felt narrativley compelled to actually do that first because my character was a githyanki and I as a player felt important.
- Maybe as a Cleric of Selune, I was given a mission to hunt down Shadowheart, but due to circumstances I can't really cut her down. Thus the narrative for my CC is a mixture of killing Shadowheart or getting to know her and maybe even converting myself or her.
- As a ranger, I could be a vampire hunter and meeting Astarion could go very differently. I might try to kill him but the tadpole won't let me maybe? Thus my narrative becomes entwined with Astarion as getting more info about the Vampire at BG would really help my mission in hunting down Vamps.
- Or an Adventurer origin, where I want to be a hero. I've heard of Wylle and he is kinda my hero, but I slowly learn that he is great because of his warlock deal, which may throw me for a loop or convince me to also make a deal.
- Mage characters might be looking for a relic or a spell. With Gale's story, what if my character has to make a dire choice of keeping the artifact I fought and bled for or save Gale.
- Right now I feel like, if I got my tadpole out, i'd just leave my party immediately and I feel there are a lot of ways to integrate our CCs into the Origin stories instead of making full blown origins for us which would cost a lot of money.
- There isn't enough for me as a CC to continue the story instead of following my Lolth Sworn ways.

Last edited by SecondAchaius; 11/10/20 03:32 AM.
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I enjoy making custom characters; I intensely dislike playing "pre generated" characters, so I'm really happy that this is the default option for the playtesting.

As for the comment about leaving the party once the tadpole is "out"; well other than my partner (I always play co-op with my bestie) I don't look on any NPCs as permanent party members.

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There may be a story for custom characters as well, as you had to make that other avatar of "Who you dream of at night" so that might play into your own personal story

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I completely agree with the need of having an story and quest linked to the custom character. Custom character need their own tag or tags that provide a personal story arc and quests.

And I like the idea that the personal story and quest are linked to the current origins so the "origin" characters become actual NPC's on the main custom character.

For example: If you create an origin story that is "tragic past" where your brother was killed by a vampire. And that vampire happens to be Cazador. As the story progress you might find out that Astarion did seduze your brother so Cazador could drink from him and that, in fact, your brother was turned into a vampire spawn just like Astarion. Then you might want to make a deat with Astarion to kill Cazador or might want to get revenge on both. Bonus points if you find that the best way to kill Cazador is using a Selune astifact that Shadowheart wants to destroy.

Another one: A soulgem was stolen. When the thief was caught in a ship, the sould gem was thrown into the sea and you just happen to find it. And in the process you absorved part of the memories of a netheresse wizard that might know how to solve Gale problem (or the opposite) and that many people are after. So if fact, you weren't randomly chosen to be a host, the Illithid were after those memories that lie dormant in you. You can have many people seeking those memories, from Zentarim, to harpers, to Cazador (if he is a wizard), to the order od schoolars in the underdark, etc.

You can be the son of someone who make a pact with the same cambion Wyll had but instead of promising their own soul, their promised "what they didn't know they have". Always though that it was quite cruel that kind of dealt in the Geralt world. They painted it as "not that big deal" and "the right thing" and the women who happen to be given in property as happy, but it could be interesting to see the other side. And play the person promised to a devil or even to a hero but not being that happy about being denied freedom...

You can be a Selune or Mystra choosen. Conflict with Shadowheart already provided. As a new Mystra chosen, Gale might be jealous and, maybe, allow for wizard characters some clever answers or at least say to Gale "Why are you telling me something that I already know?". Please, let the player be the clever once in a while. Specially if they have high intelligence.

There are plenty of opportunities for stories for custom characters and I hope they offer some. Otherwise, it would feel as those pen and paper game sesions where the master love so much the NPC's that the players are meant to be witness to their stories instead playing their own.

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So here's the thing: Any "origin" you put on a player character, will take away from your agency and your ability to roleplay just as you like. Any background that actually has a story, locks you out of being a blank canvas to put yourself on.

I get where you are coming from, it's difficult to feel you are anything at all when the game starts very in medias res. For all intents and purposes we were born on the Mind Flayer ship. We have no knowledge of ourselves, that's both a boon and a bane. The boon is that we can project whatever personality on our character. That's true roleplaying. The bane is that we don't know ourselves at all. We have no connection to the world we play in.

Baldur's Gate 1 was more of a hero's journey opening. We start in a calm town, where we existed for many years. We Existed, but didn't matter, until our adopted father comes and say we need to go on an adventure. While we have less ability to project our ideas onto the character, at least he's grounded.

I'm the sort of player/DM that prefers a backstory be in the background. The character wasn't supposed to be anyone before they are thrust into an adventure. Sure they existed, they lived, but they weren't a hero. The great thing about a backstory at the table, is it's free and adaptable. The DM can adapt to your story on the fly, and you aren't limited to what the DM gave you. The DM can set the boundaries. He CAN say you are from Baldur's Gate, but not what faction you belonged to, or who you knew.

One problem I often have with games that has a predefined story for the main character is that it sometimes push you in a direction. It can of course work, many games does it well, but I don't play "Player Character" at that point, I play "whomever the game creators had in mind".
I did like Dragon Age Ortigin's background selections, it's probably something like that I think BG3 should have. Dragon Age 2 was a little too "Mass Effect" for my taste, you had less room to define your character. Dragon Age Inquisition sort of does exactly what Baldur's Gate 3 does: Starts you In Medias Res, and you become special because you are given a weird power.

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Originally Posted by Aurgelmir
So here's the thing: Any "origin" you put on a player character, will take away from your agency and your ability to roleplay just as you like. Any background that actually has a story, locks you out of being a blank canvas to put yourself on.

Agreed. For every background I could probably make up 100 different characters. It would be impossible for Larian to have something for everyone. I would hate to be given a character to play for any type of DnD game, let me make my own.

Seeing all these threads makes me wonder if they shouldn't provide some generic "custom" templates for people that have a hard time coming up with this stuff for themselves. Maybe there should be a forum thread for people to ask for character ideas?

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Everytime I make up a character, i give them them a full backstory that i play in my head. smile I think that's where the roleplaying comes in. If the game were to give me that story, i think it would lose a bit of the fun for me, since I develop the stories for myself.

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I just wished Larian would not spend time to make the companions player characters and keep them as regular NPCs and instead used that resources to give a short intro to the created player characters - I mean we are already stuck with the Baldurian background and we never even see the city until act 2 or even later.

Just some short intros for the player character background - one simple scene, could even be used for shared introductions (like a noble meeting a guild artisan, while a criminal attempts to steals something from them chased by the soldier right before they all get picked up by the mindflayers... instead we have our NPCs getting custom starting points and each already with have a lifetime worth of special experiences involving gods and other non-noteworthy contacts...


All in all those origin stories are something that I loath and definitely won't even touch. This isn't a one-shot with pregenerated characters that you play for an evening. Its a 40+ hour game and significant parts of the background story of 'your' origin character already played out without you controlling them. If a DM would start a full campaign like this I would kindly decline the offer to play.

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It would be challenging, but not impossible, to have a sort of selection of story elements a player could pick through when you create your class from say, six categories that would put a stamp of your alignment/personality tendencies due to your past actions imprinted onto your character. I think such a thing would be great, if this was then taken into consideration in some of the way that some characters reacted to your story when you spoke some of your past antics, (with an actual voice), in the game.

All of this would be for FLAVOR, not effect stats or actual rolls. I miss hearing my own character's "voice" in game. These selections would give at least SOME individuality to a person's role - in effect, just as we can choose what we look like in game, we could choose at least a little of what we would sound like and actually say in the game.

For an example of what I mean, you might have six selections to choose at the very end of character creation. These might be defining statements like the following examples, which very much vary one's presentation to others of one's character traits and tendencies. Obviously, there would need to be a of recording of new phrases in game to cover a huge number of possible variations of possibilities, and each player class/race would need their own voice set as well.

As a gaming conceptual artist myself, I know it's asking a lot- but I do very much dislike that blank time in the world, where "I" should be speaking. So, I think this is worth considering.
Thanks for reading!

***


1. My character has mostly lived (her) life as a (half elf) (cleric) by attempting-

A. Good deeds for others
B. Very evil stuff in general
C. Serving (her) god without question.
D. To to become very rich.
E. To control (her) crazy impulsiveness
F. To follow the laws of the places (she) finds herself in.

2. It is my character's opinion that it is more important to-

A. Win, rather than be right.
B. Sacrifice so that the weak might better themselves.
C. Survive no matter what.
D. Serve one's master with honor than to live!
E. Be careful, rather than reckless,
F. Accomplish each task quickly, rather than dally!

3. My (half elf) is more likely to want to-

A. Eat rather than romance.
B. Sleep rather than exercise.
C. Be introverted rather than jolly.
D. Face conflicts head on!
E. Enjoy the company of many, rather than go it alone.
F. Drink the barrel of alcohol, rather than toss it at some goblin.

4. Your character's personality is most suited for-

A. Politics
B. A schoolteacher
C. Execution
D. Sainthood
E. A Lawyer
F. Becoming King

5. Your character uses mostly-

A. Big words.
B. Single consonants
C. Lovely linen
D. Swearing
E. Lies
F. The truth

6. Your character, in the past, has been-

A. Married and fears commitment
B. Jailed and scared of tight spots
C. Orphaned and afraid of losing companions
D. Ordained and tends to try and reform others to (her) ways
E. Cured of an embarrassing disease and does not want a relapse
F. Hit and is now terrified by lightning

Last edited by Balls; 09/11/20 06:06 PM.
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Originally Posted by Aurgelmir
So here's the thing: Any "origin" you put on a player character, will take away from your agency and your ability to roleplay just as you like. Any background that actually has a story, locks you out of being a blank canvas to put yourself on.





Completely agree. If I make a custom character, I want to decide for myself who they are and what they've done. I'm happy to play a character with a set name, appearance, and background, like Geralt of Rivia or The Nameless One, but in that case I get a more specific, personal story for my character. With a blank slate protagonist, you don't get that personal story, but you get to imagine and roleplay your character as whoever you want them to be.

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Originally Posted by SecondAchaius
hello all! This is my first time in an EA and making any frm of feedback but here goes. I am pretty far into the EA but haven't finished it.

I love the world and characters so far, but I feel that if we are going to have the option of a custom, we as players need a little bit more importance with our CC. Here is my list on what can be done for the CC.
*SPOILERS*
1. Having a selectable origin that is mostly roleplay in nature.
- *mostly* is the keyword. A purpose that involves a quest or two to push the CC forward like everyone else would integrate us with everyone more.
- ex. The drow we meet in goblin fortress could be someone I am hunting as a Lolth sworn drow or someone that forced me to leave the undercity if I'm not Lolth Sworn.
2. Have certain "CC origins" that could actually coincide with an Origin Character's story. So instead of a bystander, i am more of a active participant.
- Currently I feel more importance as a CC when I play a Githyanki, because my story merges with laezal which causes my story to become more integrated with a Origin story. When I save Laezal and she tells more to find a Creshe, I felt narrativley compelled to actually do that first because my character was a githyanki and I as a player felt important.
- Maybe as a Cleric of Selune, I was given a mission to hunt down Shadowheart, but due to circumstances I can't really cut her down. Thus the narrative for my CC is a mixture of killing Shadowheart or getting to know her and maybe even converting myself or her.
- As a ranger, I could be a vampire hunter and meeting Astarion could go very differently. I might try to kill him but the tadpole won't let me maybe? Thus my narrative becomes entwined with Astarion as getting more info about the Vampire at BG would really help my mission in hunting down Vamps.
- Or an Adventurer origin, where I want to be a hero. I've heard of Wylle and he is kinda my hero, but I slowly learn that he is great because of his warlock deal, which may throw me for a loop or convince me to also make a deal.
- Mage characters might be looking for a relic or a spell. With Gale's story, what if my character has to make a dire choice of keeping the artifact I fought and bled for or save Gale.
- Right now I feel like, if I got my tadpole out, i'd just leave my party immediately and I feel there are a lot of ways to integrate our CCs into the Origin stories instead of making full blown origins for us which would cost a lot of money.
- There isn't enough for me as a CC to continue the story instead of following my Lolth Sworn ways.

These are all wonderful ideas! Really love it. Currently it seems like everyone is tied to the story EXCEPT the PC. As the player, I feel like my character would be the very first one to pack up and leave once able.


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