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Originally Posted by LizNuzz

I still for the love of god cannot win the fight against the spider matriarch and her two accompaning phase spiders. This game, of course, leaves a lot to luck since everything is based on dice rolls, but still... Care to share your superior game combat knowledge?

My party did it at level 3.
I hide my party behind a rock, spider matriarch jumped to them. Few magic missiles, fire bolts, sword smashes and she was dead.

edit: In tactic based combat games it's important that sometimes it's not you who have to go to the enemy. It's enemy that must come to you and be killed on your terms

Last edited by Imendil; 11/10/20 03:23 PM.
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1. Make sure to use expendables. A bunch of potions for big fights like that will make a difference.
2. I've seen people mention making use of the environment — I didn't d9 it, but burning spiderwebs is traditional in D&D...
3. I've got a ranger and picked a spider companion after facing tge first spiders. That plus Wyll's imp really helped keep the spawnwd spiderlings under control.

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The toolbar has about every possible thing you need to play fights intelligently. Abuse the systems Larian has given us! To be fair, I always felt like I was playing DOS2 really stupidly.

- Positioning matters. Run away around an object.
- Know who has a reaction. Use that to pressure enemies instead of the other way around.
- You don't need to be at full health every fight (a tabletop DM will tell you when you can take a long rest).
- Characters can go down mid-fight. Use Help, a lot.
- Scout, hide, fight like a dishonorable fiend.

Players shouldn't need to rest as much as people are doing. Resting after every encounter is not helping you learn to use the systems as a whole, and combo effectively across the classes. I actually think I'm not resting enough, because I'm way behind on party character development.

I think a decent compromise might be to let players have a single low level spell slot back on a short rest. The wizards should still get their arcane recovery for higher levels.


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Originally Posted by Ryllharu
The toolbar has about every possible thing you need to play fights intelligently. Abuse the systems Larian has given us! To be fair, I always felt like I was playing DOS2 really stupidly.

- Positioning matters. Run away around an object.
- Know who has a reaction. Use that to pressure enemies instead of the other way around.
- You don't need to be at full health every fight (a tabletop DM will tell you when you can take a long rest).
- Characters can go down mid-fight. Use Help, a lot.
- Scout, hide, fight like a dishonorable fiend.

Players shouldn't need to rest as much as people are doing. Resting after every encounter is not helping you learn to use the systems as a whole, and combo effectively across the classes. I actually think I'm not resting enough, because I'm way behind on party character development.

I think a decent compromise might be to let players have a single low level spell slot back on a short rest. The wizards should still get their arcane recovery for higher levels.



The problem is that the game really doesn't teach new players that they need to abuse the system. And personally I don't feel like that level of knowing and abusing the system should be necessary in the default difficulty of the game. Really, nothing is helping new players learn to use the systems and I think that's the biggest problem. I don't have much real experience with either 5e or Divinity: Original Sin 2 and so I'm trying to play this game like I'd play most any other cRPG on normal difficulty, which does not call for the level of tactical engagement you're describing.

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Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
[quote=Ryllharu]The problem is that the game really doesn't teach new players that they need to abuse the system. And personally I don't feel like that level of knowing and abusing the system should be necessary in the default difficulty of the game. Really, nothing is helping new players learn to use the systems and I think that's the biggest problem. I don't have much real experience with either 5e or Divinity: Original Sin 2 and so I'm trying to play this game like I'd play most any other cRPG on normal difficulty, which does not call for the level of tactical engagement you're describing.

I think that's really the issue many have with the current build of the game.

The tutorial section is a great story intro, but it isn't the best D&D 5th Edition introduction. It gives the basics, which is fine, but the game as it stands doesn't do so well in showing the full extent of what it allows players to get away with. It's more of a "learn by failing" build.

5e 'Core Rules' is hard. It is brutally hard at low levels. 1st and 2nd level combat is actually the hardest the game gets, in my experience. Maybe right before wizards and sorcerers get 3rd Level Spells as well. Shadowheart has dialogue that points that out against your duo's first fight with the brains. A single hit can kill you. A few bad rolls in a row can mean a total party kill. It's happened to me a few times in BG3 so far, haha.

The more RTS style real time cRPGs or action RPGs from other developers rely much more on auto-attack cycles. Wiff and tank and then burn through all your abilities and then they'll cool down while the game plays itself a bit more.

You can't do that with 5e D&D. Every single action counts.

There's a lot of actions and choices BG3 offers, directly from 5e, ones that are replenishable by round, encounter, short rest, and finally long rest. If players are burning through all their long-rest abilities every time they're clearly not aware of how effective they can be with the "lesser" abilities.

As for why and when and who those "lesser" abilities are most effective, that's a deeper dive into the system question. The character sheet and tooltips should be making this clear to players not familiar with 5e.

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The initial setting screams of timer to me, and I think a loose but hard limit to get rid of the tadpole would go a long way. Don't add any timer after that, because it seems to throw off so many people (I for one love them, it adds tension to games that too easily turn into checking zone after zone without thinking much but I can totally see how it can get frustrating) and allow people to backtrack to the initial zones and check elements that they missed and you'll kill two birds with one stone. After that though, the right balance is hard to strike. The supplies are nice in the first act of Pathfinder but it really quickly becomes irrelevant as you have enough money and carrying space to just max out and just forget about it, not even mentionning hunting while camping. The last option seems like the best option to me ; let us have something irrelevant to the plot but giving rewards if you can chain encouters quickly (without taking a 8 hours rest) like the camp getting better, a NPC giving you better items and so on. It would allow players to play at their own rythm if they like to fully rest after each fight but still give incentive to do without it.

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If there is any rest limit added I really hope this will be optional. I dislike the combat and am playing for the story line and companions. Timers and having to lug around heavy pieces of wood (I don't play STR chars) in order to not 'cheese' fights (you could just not rest you know if you want things more difficult) just make me want to tear my hair out irl.


Last edited by Moirnelithe; 11/10/20 06:20 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tuco

But hey, I'd be all for enforcing some restriction.
Except developers probably don't want to even attempt that sort of mechanic or they would be SIEGED by Kotaku and all the gaming press of people who can't play decently to save their life would cry about how elitism and gatekeeping are preventing them from having fun or something.

Luckily RPG fans and Kotaku readers don't have a lot of overlap. This nonsense hasn't exactly hurt the upsurge in classily hard games in recent years.


Originally Posted by Faulkner

The initial setting screams of timer to me, and I think a loose but hard limit to get rid of the tadpole would go a long way.

Agreed. I was surprised there was no cost to resting a lot for both gameplay and story reason.

Originally Posted by Moirnelithe

If there is any rest limit added I really hope this will be optional. I dislike the combat and am playing for the story line and companions..... you could just not rest you know if you want things more difficult
Having the opportunity cost of resting scale with difficulty is likely a requirement. There are plenty of players such as yourself that would hate to have some resource system breathing down their neck when trying to enjoy the story.

That being said. I hope you can understand that for people who want enjoy the challenge, having a mechanic that eases the game ruins the experience. Especially if you are required to use it to some extent to progress. It would be like playing Dark Souls where you can place a bonfire anywhere. It would completely undermine the sense of overcoming the game's challenge.

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Originally Posted by LizNuzz
I'm confused about people saying there is no limit to long rests. I've had several occasions in which the game told me it was not safe to rest here, so I had to leave a zone before being able to take a long rest. Did this not happen in your play throughs? I'm thiking maybe it was a bug that this feature simply didn't manifests in your safes for whatever reasons.

Personally I rather missed being able to have more than a single short rest. Two or three times I wanted to take a short rest and realized I was only allowed to take a long one.


The moments that you are not allowed to rest are very few.

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Why not just use the systems already in place for 5E to enforce long rests, so you don't have players running around like robots who never sleep? A day/night cycle to outdoor areas would ne nice, not only for knowing the passage of time in game, but also to allow for more stealth gameplay with nightfall, as well as giving the party exhaustion if they don't take a long rest once every X hours in game time? It would also allow for mid-day camp scenes, and let people know that yes, time is indeed passing in the game every time you rest, so you could have hidden timers for events if people rest too frequently, like some DM's do to prevent players from just resting after every encounter. For example you rest too much, and when you get to the goblin stronghold, they've already killed their prisoners and are marching out for their next raid. Rest too much after that and the results of that raid are randomly determined via multiple dicerolls, even could have the results regarding the prisoners in the fort be determined by several dicerolls as well, in the background while you're camping and taking your sweet time.

Personally any time I feel like I'm being rushed, I always make a beeline for the objectives, even when I'm not actually timed, so I was getting myself into a lot of difficult fights early on, however I still make sure not to use my resources frivolously, unless I'm planning on camping shortly. I usually only camp when it 'feels' right, meaning after enough events/fights have passed that I feel like could be done in a day, though that is immensely hard to determine without a day/night cycle represented. Do think you should be able to take multiple short rests between long rests though. It's kind of penalizing classes like Warlock and the martial classes because while they do benefit from long rests the same as the other classes, they don't *need* to take a long rest to recover their stuff, depending on their sub-type in some cases.

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I haven't played enough BG3 yet to get a feel for long resting, but I'm in agreeance with @PumatsHole.Something like a day or night cycle would work better to convey the feeling of DnD. Even if it serves as a slight disconnect from the tadpole situation, I think it would benefit the gameplay in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Burdock


Safety - DnD


for long rest (locations on the map, similar to fast travel portals)

Originally Posted by Burdock


Resources - Pathfinder Kingmaker, Darkest Dungeon


for short rest (food)

will be an ideal combination

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Perhaps preventing the party from long resting while in a dungeon, cave or building (or anything alike, just not outside in the wild) would discourage people from resting after each encounter. Especially since there's no indoors/dungeon version of the camp location - it suggests the party does go outside to camp and head back inside once they're done.

Yes, people would still be able to move out of the dungeon to the surface to rest and head back in to the dungeon immediately after. I think it would at least discourage them to do so in larger areas. Perhaps they will now do 2-3 fights and use short rests in between before going to bed.

Another thing to disuade people from long rest spamming is giving players a slight buff or reward for only resting after a certain number of fights or with some decent playtime in between. Some sort of "well rested" bonus which you can only get after X amount of battles, quest progress, time played, ....
This could be some temporary hit points, slight XP boost, one re-roll of a d20, the 'aid' or 'bless' spell effect for a little while after resting, ... just some random ideas.

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did anyone feel it was not needed to rest that often, with the power of food and potions and how cheep everything was.... i could go on forever without resting.

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Originally Posted by Lord Branches
did anyone feel it was not needed to rest that often, with the power of food and potions and how cheep everything was.... i could go on forever without resting.

actually i'm finished EA with only 1 long rest, because there food is everywere not even use heal potions as for mage cantrips better than spells

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Yes I had a similar experience. Somewhere after reaching lv 3 and after fighting the goblin attack outside the druid grove, the harpies and the owlbear I needed a long rest because I was all out of spell slots on Shadowheart and Gale. The party was almost full on HP at that point, but I wanted to be ready for a tough right if I happened to stumble into one. (Also I didnt even know food = healing I just used a potion every now and then.) XD

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Instanced camping suck and the rest system suck and are poorly implemented, camping should take place in the main map, not an instanced zone, it detaches you form the story, and most of the problems I've had with the story breaking were at the camp, it doesn't bring the game together it somehow detaches it... Needs a complete overhaul.

Last edited by Emulate; 13/10/20 06:42 AM.
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I would combine the Safety and Resources options and add restrictions as to where and when you can set up your camp.

* Long AND Short should require resources - food, maybe some potions, etc
* Long rests should be allowed only in relatively safe areas. Say, not in caves, dungeons and behind enemy lines, no enemies in a certain radius or/and you should clean X enemy groups to be able to set camp in the area.
* In some cases - depending on your location and randomness factor - night attacks on your camp should occur.

Those factors should be quite limiting, especially if requirements for resources will be hefty and random attacks will be deadly...

Last edited by ascet; 13/10/20 09:04 PM.
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5E has an issue with the balance between short rests and long rests. In PnP, the game is balanced around 2 short rests per long rest. With BG3 having food provide healing, resting gets ... weird. I like how they limited short rests between long rests, but it looks like that limitation is 1 short rest per long rest right now, which weakens fighters and warlocks compared to wizards and clerics.

Pillars of Eternity had a solid resting system. You had your HP, and you had a greater pool of 4x your HP that took damage at the same rate. Most healing healed your HP. Your HP healed at the end of each fight, so HP was during a fight. But that 4xHP pool (I forget what the pools were called) only healed on a rest, so you needed to rest eventually. You needed to use camping supplies to rest, and you could only carry 4 camping supplies with you, so you had a time limit to how long you could stay out before heading back to a town to buy more camping supplies. You also got bonuses from resting in town, and those bonuses only lasted for 2 rests.

Larian can't play with things too much, since they're tied to the D&D rules. But, the easiest thing to do is balance encounters as if players are fully rested going into each fight and then have them be fully rested going into each fight. That would require nerfing the long rest spell-casters, though, so that's a big change they probably can't make.

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Curious, but why don't they just use the 5e rules? The camp is nice and all, for when you are in the wild. But when in a dungeon, or another location that is story wise, or battle wise of the grid what sense does it make if you can click the long rest and end up at your camp?

If they do leave it like that we need some teleportation spell, or another gimmick to make it thematically sound.

I for one would love to see it more like a table top session. You can rest anywhere, long or short, but you run the risk of an encounter. If you long rest in a dungeon, the chances of either being attacked, or afterwards being ambushed by half the dungeon should be possible. If you are outside, have a dynamic camp ready. Why does it have to be the exact same location? As if they would head back to the same spot, every time no matter where. It makes the world small.

It also makes clerics feel a lot less useful. Instead you can just bring another mage and blast away. Just heal after for spell slots and health.


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