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Originally Posted by Axis
OR they are 5e players who don’t like regular RPG style mechanics, aka searching through individual containers, inventory management, etc.


Huh? Regular RPG mechanics? You are aware CRPGs had those forever, right? I doubt "5e players" have a problem with those... they do have problem when they are handled badly, though... like packing the world with a ton of empty containers, or making item stacking/splitting a pain, etc. Inventory management has been a thing in video games since the 80's, but for some reason, Larian seams to still be in love the with individual container approach Richard Garriot invented for his later Ultima games... in the early 90!

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Yes!!! More true to DnD, Certainly not less!!!

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Originally Posted by Eugerome
I personally like the environmental damage that the game adds to DnD.

I like it too in principle but it needs to be tuned down for sure.
And a Cantrip leaving a splash effect on ground should be possible only in minor chances and/or IF the target is particularly flammable (i.e. wood, tall dry grass, oil) not everywhere, not almost at every cast.



Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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One thing that I find really weird is that Baldur's Gate 3 is the long-awaited flagship of D&D 5th edition in computer gaming (as far as I understand it) and yet they're not being faithful the the D&D 5th edition ruleset. I don't even mind surface effects and custom spells, but stuff like doing the skill checks correctly, doing saving throws correctly, giving you access to the all the information on your character sheet and a fair amount of other shit I'm missing is really annoying me.

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Originally Posted by CurtimusMaximus
I've only played the game a handful of hours, but I agree—too much DOS mechanics. I do really love the DOS games, but I've also played and loved every single game connected with the D&D franchise. This needs to stay more true to D&D and *not* be a hybrid between DOS and D&D.

I'm not saying this means Larian shouldn't be creative, but come on, guys -- D&D games, and moreover DMs themselves, never have implemented the crazy surfaces and 'splosions of everything like a DOS game...unless it was an immature homebrew campaign based on DOS ;-) And the surfaces of stuff is just one glaringly noticeable DOS carryover...but it illustrates the point I think.



Your only stated one complaint: surfaces. That’s it? Lol

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Originally Posted by Eugerome
I personally like the environmental damage that the game adds to DnD. Granted, I have only played 5e, so can't speak for other editions, but in my opinion 5e lacks theses mechanics so that combat involves less bookkeeping.

For example a lot of fire based spells set objects on fire, unless they are worn or carried. Creatures just take the damage up front. Why - because if somebody cast fireball into a group of enemies and the DM would have to keep track of burning effects (like the oil item for example) then the game would grind to a halt.

In BG3 there is no issue - the bookkeeping is done by the game for you.

Originally Posted by Axis
Amen. I have 850 hours logged between DOS 1 and 2, and I have played a bit of 5e. I agree, most of the suggestions/outrages are either DOS players not liking 5e rules (spell slots especially, resting, skill checks/saving throws, etc.)
OR they are 5e players who don’t like regular RPG style mechanics, aka searching through individual containers, inventory management, etc.

Can’t win I guess lol

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+1

as for warbaby. Wow just Wow. you sir take the cake. This coming from someone who regularly quotes 'People are stupid sheep.' nearly daily. You sir have taken the prize. I being an ass of epic proportions wouldn't even bother spending 60 dollars on a game I didn't like, just so I could go bitch about it on forums. Hell I wouldn't pay 20 cents on a game I had issues with, but you have done it! Congratulations I am humbled that you are so dedicated to bitching you'd go and pay to bitch even more.

By the way since your blowing money go by Dragonheist the campaign book. You may be shocked to find out what you encounter as a level 1 - 5 character, indeed you should by several campaign books and read them. Also look up Illithid, and read about them.

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As a DM, I am perfectly happy with the surface stuff etc. I also love the push mechanics. I let a player try push an enemy overboard during combat in pnp D&D session im running [Ghosts Of Saltmarsh]. It was innovative thinking and outside of the box of just straight combat. It ended up making the encounter a lot easier. I think this is what Larian's aim was. Allowing us to do more and think outside the box. Sometimes there are things in plain sight we don't always see right away that could have made a difficult encounter easy. When I got imprisoned by the goblin priestess. The escape combat I solo'd. Easily killing her and the ogre without taking any damage whatsoever by playing tactically.


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Originally Posted by Axis
Originally Posted by CurtimusMaximus
I've only played the game a handful of hours, but I agree—too much DOS mechanics. I do really love the DOS games, but I've also played and loved every single game connected with the D&D franchise. This needs to stay more true to D&D and *not* be a hybrid between DOS and D&D.

I'm not saying this means Larian shouldn't be creative, but come on, guys -- D&D games, and moreover DMs themselves, never have implemented the crazy surfaces and 'splosions of everything like a DOS game...unless it was an immature homebrew campaign based on DOS ;-) And the surfaces of stuff is just one glaringly noticeable DOS carryover...but it illustrates the point I think.



Your only stated one complaint: surfaces. That’s it? Lol


My post intended to reiterate surface effects as simply a prime example of the over-arching negative aspect of feedback being "this game feels too much like DOS and not true enough D&D." I was not trying to laundry list complaints; others have already hit on some of the other points, like a bunch of empty containers, some roll mechanics less true to 5e, etc. Also keep in mind the current state of the game has its positive aspects as well.

So no, my only complaint is not the surface effects, but I reiterate it as a primary illustration of the main title of this thread, "This Is a D&D Game, Right?"

And therefore implore Larian to consider the implications of layering 5e onto DOS instead of layering some DOS onto 5e (as well stated previously). I'm not arguing the game needs a complete overhaul, but suggest it might be that some of this feedback could be addressed by taking away some of the "overly DOS" elements that are glaring distractions from a truer D&D experience.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Eugerome
I personally like the environmental damage that the game adds to DnD.

I like it too in principle but it needs to be tuned down for sure.
And a Cantrip leaving a splash effect on ground should be possible only in minor chances and/or IF the target is particularly flammable (i.e. wood, tall dry grass, oil) not everywhere, not almost at every cast.



I think there is a balance in these observations and suggestions. It really is true some things Larian implements (e.g. surfaces) are innovative and "streamlines" what a PnP campaign DM would not choose to get distracted with (describing every single item that just burst into flames).

I suggest Tuco's comment about "toning it down" perhaps be taken this way, "Considering 5e rules and traditional PnP RPG mechanics, how should we translate what actually *should* burst into flames (or insert other surface effect) in our environment?" If you cast a fireball and hit a barrel, sure, roll for the barrel to catch fire, or make it automatic, but don't stick a bunch of fire surface that remains all over the stone floor. As already observed with other spell effects, don't stick acid all over the floor from a cantrip that is supposed to come from 5e mechanics.

My $.02

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+1 to this thread.

The starting point should be DnD 5e. Not DOS. Which I love both, but if t his is a DnD game, make it a DnD game.

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But it is a D&D game not a DOS even now.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Fun fact: with all its occasional flaws or minor tweaking needed, BG3 actually sticks closer to the 5Th edition than BG 1 and 2 ever did to the second.


Bold claim, but not without merit

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Originally Posted by Bugginity

Free disengage of enemies just ignore the positioning of Martials is a bit much too, what's the point of opportunity attack? Goblins disengage every time, if he/she doesn't have healing potion, or spell.


Well goblins in particular have you at a disadvantage there in 5e

Nimble Escape. The goblin can take the Disengage or Hide action as a bonus action on each of its turns.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Fun fact: with all its occasional flaws or minor tweaking needed, BG3 actually sticks closer to the 5Th edition than BG 1 and 2 ever did to the second.


Them's fightin words

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Funny,for me this game atm is like 80% DoS and 20% D&D. Feels like playing Forgotten Realms Mod to DoS2.

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Originally Posted by 0Muttley0
As a DM, I am perfectly happy with the surface stuff etc. I also love the push mechanics. I let a player try push an enemy overboard during combat in pnp D&D session im running [Ghosts Of Saltmarsh]. It was innovative thinking and outside of the box of just straight combat. It ended up making the encounter a lot easier. I think this is what Larian's aim was. Allowing us to do more and think outside the box.



Would you let your players push someone away from threatening a caster and knock them down as a bonus action, then walk up and take their normal attack action with advantage because they are prone?

Shove is fine, it just needs to be an action, not bonus action.

Last edited by Koshea; 12/10/20 05:08 PM.
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Originally Posted by Koshea


Would you let your players push someone away from threatening a caster and knock them down as a bonus action, then walk up and take their normal attack action with advantage because they are prone?



Corrected:
Would you let your players push someone away from threatening a caster and knock them down as a bonus action, then walk up behind them and take their normal attack as a backstab action with advantage because they are prone?

I even forgot that you can push them into fire for more damage on top laugh

Last edited by KingWilhelm; 12/10/20 05:14 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tuco
Fun fact: with all its occasional flaws or minor tweaking needed, BG3 actually sticks closer to the 5Th edition than BG 1 and 2 ever did to the second.

Please, elaborate.

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Originally Posted by KingWilhelm
Originally Posted by Koshea


Would you let your players push someone away from threatening a caster and knock them down as a bonus action, then walk up and take their normal attack action with advantage because they are prone?



Corrected:
Would you let your players push someone away from threatening a caster and knock them down as a bonus action, then walk up behind them and take their normal attack as a backstab action with advantage because they are prone?



Sorry, your right, but who takes melee attacks in this game that aren't backstabs when you can literally jump right over their head or walk around them and always have that bonus to hit. Amazing forsight for 5e not to have facing be a thing and this kind of situation didn't happen.

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Originally Posted by Limz
But it is a D&D game not a DOS even now.


There is some DnD in it, yes

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