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Originally Posted by bullse
LMAO, O M G. More of the 'it's too difficult' garbage. I am sorry but if Larian is not going to just come and say it, I will: learn to play cause this fight is utter CAKE.

Why would Larian come out and say something that makes them sound like a jerk that doesn't understand that people have different experiences and want different things. Belittling someone for struggling with something that you happen to find easy is incredibly lame.

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Originally Posted by bullse
LMAO, O M G. More of the 'it's too difficult' garbage. I am sorry but if Larian is not going to just come and say it, I will: learn to play cause this fight is utter CAKE.

Glad I made you laugh. I think my point, however, is that after 4 reloads I did L2P, but I am arguing that it is poor design.

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If you are getting beat by three damaged intellect devourers and then coming here to let everyone know that that fight is too difficult, you might want to uninstall. Just saying.

Last edited by bullse; 31/12/20 09:50 PM.
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I feel like this encounter is designed to teach people about high ground advantage but I also feel like it assumes that you recruit Shadowheart first.

You are expected to click on the tutorial text and then it shows you where you should stand. If you stand where shown, the encounter isn't that difficult as it takes the IDs 2 turns to reach you and you are expected to use Shadowheart's guiding bolt to kill them before they reach you.

Warlock should also be using hex for extra 1d6 damage but no where is that mentioned and hex isn't one of the default spells either which is a separate issue.

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Originally Posted by bullse
If you are getting beat by three damaged intellect devourers and then coming here to let everyone know that that fight is too difficult, you might want to uninstall. Just saying.

Point taken... So humor me. You agree taking 3 enemies that in accordance with the 5E monster manual are balanced against a party of 4 level 2 characters is to difficult for 1-2 level 1 characters, right? But to mitigate that you nerf them by removing 10 of their 21 hitpoints, allow stealth to work (which IMO takes away from the lore since they got no eyes and work by detecting intelligence...), and remove their Intellect Devour. Not being a stranger to DnD, nor knowing what encounters are to follow, do I unload on these 3 nerfed IDs, or do I reload hoping for better rolls, or are you arguing that this fight is not heavily dependent on RNG, and I should just have more prescience on what is to follow?

I personally want to see this game succeed, and I believe it's best chance at doing so is design more closely to the standards in modules (goblins CR1/4, and kobolds CR1/8 sort of thing)...

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Originally Posted by Saberem
I feel like this encounter is designed to teach people about high ground advantage but I also feel like it assumes that you recruit Shadowheart first.

You are expected to click on the tutorial text and then it shows you where you should stand. If you stand where shown, the encounter isn't that difficult as it takes the IDs 2 turns to reach you and you are expected to use Shadowheart's guiding bolt to kill them before they reach you.

Warlock should also be using hex for extra 1d6 damage but no where is that mentioned and hex isn't one of the default spells either which is a separate issue.

Might be an L2P on my part with this one with the UI, but on point and agree.

EDIT: re-did the encounter, since I completely missed the tutorial first time around. Game changer, currently playing on a 43 inch monitor, and never even saw them until I read this post. Thanks!

Last edited by Xultep; 31/12/20 10:37 PM.
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Originally Posted by Druid_NPC
I always stealth climb to high ground and range attack them, never had any problems. You can also blow the canister with fire to make it even easier.


Used this my first run through. Second time out the new group climb/jump was too broken - characters simply got stuck in the terrain, no matter what I tried - even separating them, they were unable to climb or jump there.

Instead I ripped through them with ranged - I have no issue using flaming arrows - the area is already on fire from the crash and they are sufficiently grounded in historic reality that I don't consider them a "cheat" - dip and fire, dip and fire.

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Quote
If you are getting beat by three damaged intellect devourers and then coming here to let everyone know that that fight is too difficult, you might want to uninstall. Just saying.
Just a general point of order here (i.e. directed at everyone, not just the person quoted).

Please do not start using the phrase or suggestion 'you should uninstall' on these forums. The implication is unhelpful and dismissive, and is rarely, if ever, associated with constructive criticism and good-natured discussion.

It might seem a small point, but it gets my hackles up whenever I see it used. Raising a Moderator's hackles is rarely going to end well.

Message ends.

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Originally Posted by Libertine
I went through the first intellect devourer fight and as a DM I think this fight is a bit out of line. The player has two characters who will have around 8-10 HP on the average and the IDs will do enough to kill one of them in two blows. Ranged fire is unreliable, I generally do no more than 3 points of damage with a bow. I beat the fight by running a cleric alongside Blackheart with both using shield of faith and guiding bolt, options that I think surpass what most characters have available at that point in the game.

Us, the first talking brain, I suppose is thought to be your first temp companion (further in the nautiloid ship having it at your side is really useful) that's why it starts with 21 hp and a very powerful attack.

The three spidy brains in the crash site can be defeated by a single player, it requires a bit of strategy because once they arrive close to you they hit hard. So if you have any use enhancing cleric or magic spells (the ones that improve armor class are the better), use the acid grenades that you find in the nautiloid, made use of grease too and acid, and remember that you have to be sure to cover all the area in front of you because the little brainy things are smart enough to avoid the dangerous surface, furthermore use pinning. If you have Shadowhearth and Gale in the party you can use a combo of mage armor and the one that improves your abilities throws.

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Originally Posted by Bufotenina
Originally Posted by Libertine
I went through the first intellect devourer fight and as a DM I think this fight is a bit out of line. The player has two characters who will have around 8-10 HP on the average and the IDs will do enough to kill one of them in two blows. Ranged fire is unreliable, I generally do no more than 3 points of damage with a bow. I beat the fight by running a cleric alongside Blackheart with both using shield of faith and guiding bolt, options that I think surpass what most characters have available at that point in the game.

Us, the first talking brain, I suppose is thought to be your first temp companion (further in the nautiloid ship having it at your side is really useful) that's why it starts with 21 hp and a very powerful attack.

The three spidy brains in the crash site can be defeated by a single player, it requires a bit of strategy because once they arrive close to you they hit hard. So if you have any use enhancing cleric or magic spells (the ones that improve armor class are the better), use the acid grenades that you find in the nautiloid, made use of grease too and acid, and remember that you have to be sure to cover all the area in front of you because the little brainy things are smart enough to avoid the dangerous surface, furthermore use pinning. If you have Shadowhearth and Gale in the party you can use a combo of mage armor and the one that improves your abilities throws.

Sneak and shoot the nautiloid tank with a firebolt or flaming arrow next to one of them and it's an insta-kill to one and most likely kills or severely hurts the remaining two.

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When I did my first playthrough with my warlock, I had some problems with them, because I wasn't used to the mechanics yet, since I never played a Divinity game. But now, it's really OK. Like with most fights, you have to think a bit and use your environment (I didn't realize, how important high ground was at first), but it's doable.
Sneaking to the side and using the hight advantage against them really helps a lot.


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Oh I did forgot about the nautiloid tank placed there.

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For a living brain, they are quite stupid sadly ...
If you manage to lure them on that balcony, where you get high ground, but dont manage to kill them until they reach you on the end ... and THEN you simply jump down ... they just stand there and let you snipe them from safe spot. frown


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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It’s a challenge but it’s not that hard - you don’t need to sneak just prep & put shadow heart in front

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I've had minimal trouble with this fight myself, despite doing it with ONE character (yep, I handle it before I get anyone else on board).

What I do is simple: I use my bow to shoot them, generally the first shot from stealth, and as they approach, I move backwards, kiting them (and they're always dead before I reach Shadowheart). Of course my Tav does have a few damage bonuses to her bow due to how she's statted out, but it still should be manageable with a bow and one character. I'd say six rounds tops to kill all three for me personally, maybe nine without Tav having an archery damage bonus.


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Due to the limited options available the first "monsterbrains" are the most fearsome enemys in the game yeah. grin

In one playthrough "Us" just oneshotted my character. LeLoL
But when that piece of sh*t is my ally, its hitchance is garbage ooooof course. wink

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Originally Posted by Libertine
I went through the first intellect devourer fight and as a DM I think this fight is a bit out of line. The player has two characters who will have around 8-10 HP on the average and the IDs will do enough to kill one of them in two blows. Ranged fire is unreliable, I generally do no more than 3 points of damage with a bow. I beat the fight by running a cleric alongside Blackheart with both using shield of faith and guiding bolt, options that I think surpass what most characters have available at that point in the game.


Or you could avoid them till you have a bigger party and come back later; That what I did. There are others road, the game isn't a corridor. If you played DOS2, you couldn't miss that there are zone that are too difficult / too hight level for you at first, and you have to come back to it later.


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Originally Posted by Libertine
I went through the first intellect devourer fight and as a DM I think this fight is a bit out of line. The player has two characters who will have around 8-10 HP on the average and the IDs will do enough to kill one of them in two blows. Ranged fire is unreliable, I generally do no more than 3 points of damage with a bow. I beat the fight by running a cleric alongside Blackheart with both using shield of faith and guiding bolt, options that I think surpass what most characters have available at that point in the game.

I think the idea is to avoid them by taking high ground and staying out of melee distance. You can try sneaking past them. In terms of RP, since you first saw them and they scattered you could justify prepping yourselves for the fight with bless etc. Utilizing the mechanics of the game such as dipping weapons into fire, using ranged attacks, hopefully if you had a bow and also taking high ground which is conveniently provided to the right. If you choose to get upclose for attacks that is your decision, but if you dont have a fighter or barbarian that wouldnt make much sense. Therefore the only option would be to go up high and travel to the far end of the platform while using ranged attacks. It makes the most sense RP wise to utilize this strategy and by doing so I have never been touched by those creatures. In terms of a D&D setting it would also be effective however if you threw an unseasoned low level adventurer in that situation maybe they wouldnt take the same tactical measures. Although these characters you control are clearly experienced adventurers even though they are only level 1. So I disagree with you.

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I chose to play a Githyanki warrior as the trailer suggested intrguing Mindflayer storyline action in Forgotten Realms once again. This player character choice made me unable to recruit Shadowheart as she distrusts and attacks me on cultural bias. I knocked her unconscious as she choses to attack me. Left her for good stripped to the leather bikinis as I wanted to preserve any survivors knowledge she may have. On this choise you can recruit her only after meeting her again in the Druids cove. Which strips you form access to her healing and protectuion spells for this fight, the extra actions and HP pool.

So this can even be won solo easily enough. Stop the whining pls. as there is much harder fights with full team to come.

Ensure to avoid the disadvantage of multiple strong opponents by all means. Avoid anything in your back or side get huge boni. Exploit that for yourself and don't fight stationary when not to your advantage.

I did shoot the short bow and ran several times. One blow finishes the leftovers easily enough when they manage to attack alone close up. No sneaking, shooting barrels, dipping arrows or companion needed for this. Just brute force and footwork did it for e alone. Do whatever the strenght of your character are. I didn't even use sprint to create more space.

I my eyes this fight is intentionally a challenge with an upfront warning to teach you all the depth of D&D tactics available and realize the benfit of seperating enemies before they gang up on you,

In my eyes this fight is amazingly well balanced for anything you throw at it. I needed only a second or third try when my frontal assault and belief in my warriors superiority alone was refuted by the game. So I took the hint at face value,
Turn based RPGs save & reload is a common and unavoidable concept. have no objections to utilize this.

One key concept of D&D is armour class. If your character doesn't bring it along, stay strictly out of close combat and use any spells that helps boost it. Eventuallyyou got to reload due to your boost roll fizzle on low RNG alone here.
Get a feeling for what you armour can or can't do for your HP churn rate against each enemy you meet. Adjust your tactics to it.
It also helps to right click and review for weakness and resistances to adjust weapon sets and tactics.
Concealment and initiative may also be an asset for a skillbased deadly blow opening attack as well as haste, potions, throwing things or any consumables. These are very character specific to learn and explore.

Make sure to adjust you spell choice for the task and rest to memorize them for the day to come.

For a rogue or low level mage this will be a tough solitary fight on low armour class and still missing spells or rolling low on damagea lot. The real questions is, how many player character options do deny you to recruit Shadowheart? None of these choices will not fight this alone due to the Shar affiliation of this cleric being really ideologically flexible apart for dedicated extraplanar mindflayer hunters.

I found a level 1 and 2 Gale being wiped by Goblin bows and area effects way more annoying many times over. There should be a checkbox to auto-cast mage armour when this guy even just get's out of his sleeping bag.
That's where I found the Fog spell not safeguarding and hiding him at all and being entirely useless atm. Some area effect based spellcasting clearly does need further review by Larian.

Trying several tricks and options plus keeping a distance should get you through this one easily enough. No matter what you bring to this brawl.


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Originally Posted by vonTreppenwitz
I my eyes this fight is intentionally a challenge with an upfront warning to teach you all the depth of D&D tactics available and realize the benfit of seperating enemies before they gang up on you,

In my eyes this fight is amazingly well balanced for anything you throw at it. I needed only a second or third try when my frontal assault and belief in my warriors superiority alone was refuted by the game. So I took the hint at face value,
Turn based RPGs save & reload is a common and unavoidable concept. have no objections to utilize this.

At least for me this was the motivation for my inquiry. I figured this early on a typical straight up fight will often result in death, so what is the point behind it... I myself was so focused on the center of my screen that I never saw the tutorial for dipping (not found in DnD), and using elevation for advantage (also not standard). Parenthetical is to state, it's not obvious either, don't care if they add house/Larian rules, more power to them. And upon using any of the tactics in the tutorial the encounter becomes significantly easier. So given the fact that there are people struggling, and quite of few using kiting (almost an anti-tactic that takes advantage of poor AI in computer games), perhaps it is still good feedback for Larian on how they present the tutorial.

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