Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 19 of 28 1 2 17 18 19 20 21 27 28
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Rugby, UK
Cleric of Innuendo
Offline
Cleric of Innuendo
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Rugby, UK
Originally Posted by Melkyor95
Hello everyone,

BG1 and 2 have achieved the feat of being a very faithful transposition of AD&D into video games.

I just have one question for those who have played Early Access before:
By playing BG3, will I feel like I'm really participating in a D&D5 campaign, with the same rules and the same possibilities?

Thank you in advance for your answers
Given that you have opened one thread on the same subject this time last year, and have posted at least 15 times in various threads, again on the same subject, I wonder what you think that you will get from opening yet another thread on this

Last edited by Sadurian; 20/02/21 05:40 PM.
Joined: Feb 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Feb 2020
Sadurian,

Was there early access already last year? No.
Your remark is therefore irrelevant and unnecessary

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Melkyor95
Hello everyone,

BG1 and 2 have achieved the feat of being a very faithful transposition of AD&D into video games.

I just have one question for those who have played Early Access before:
By playing BG3, will I feel like I'm really participating in a D&D5 campaign, with the same rules and the same possibilities?

Thank you in advance for your answers


I mean.. no, not really. Not as it stands right now.

Joined: Apr 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Apr 2020
No.
Originally Posted by Melkyor95
Hello everyone,

BG1 and 2 have achieved the feat of being a very faithful transposition of AD&D into video games.

I just have one question for those who have played Early Access before:
By playing BG3, will I feel like I'm really participating in a D&D5 campaign, with the same rules and the same possibilities?

Thank you in advance for your answers

Nope. It is like with a very original DM.

By the way, I just wrote a feedback directly to WotC.

Joined: Oct 2020
L
member
Offline
member
L
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Lunar Dante
By the way, I just wrote a feedback directly to WotC.
Sounds like a good idea.

Even if Larian insists on their innovations, it would be nice if there were an optional D&D 5e mode, especially in light of it supposedly being a D&D 5e based game.

Joined: Apr 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Apr 2020
Originally Posted by Labayu
Even if Larian insists on their innovations, it would be nice if there were an optional D&D 5e mode, especially in light of it supposedly being a D&D 5e based game.

Exactly. Some simple options could alleviate a lot of frustration.
Larian could just mention the project of implementing D&D5 options (RAW) instead of offering silence on these topics.

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Labayu
Originally Posted by Lunar Dante
By the way, I just wrote a feedback directly to WotC.
Sounds like a good idea.

Even if Larian insists on their innovations, it would be nice if there were an optional D&D 5e mode, especially in light of it supposedly being a D&D 5e based game.


HELL yes!!!! Hoping *SO* much for that!!!!!!

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Originally Posted by Labayu
Originally Posted by Lunar Dante
By the way, I just wrote a feedback directly to WotC.
Sounds like a good idea.

Even if Larian insists on their innovations, it would be nice if there were an optional D&D 5e mode, especially in light of it supposedly being a D&D 5e based game.


HELL yes!!!! Hoping *SO* much for that!!!!!!

The ideal order of business would be to get the game working properly first using 5E mechanics as written, then any Larianisms they implement to ‘improve’ D&D can be bundled into an option that you can leave on or turn off. Then the EA community could truly test which is more fun and provide definitive feedback.

Joined: Feb 2021
P
addict
Offline
addict
P
Joined: Feb 2021
Originally Posted by LukasPrism
Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Originally Posted by Labayu
Originally Posted by Lunar Dante
By the way, I just wrote a feedback directly to WotC.
Sounds like a good idea.

Even if Larian insists on their innovations, it would be nice if there were an optional D&D 5e mode, especially in light of it supposedly being a D&D 5e based game.


HELL yes!!!! Hoping *SO* much for that!!!!!!

The ideal order of business would be to get the game working properly first using 5E mechanics as written, then any Larianisms they implement to ‘improve’ D&D can be bundled into an option that you can leave on or turn off. Then the EA community could truly test which is more fun and provide definitive feedback.

There is no way Larian is going to basically develop 2 sets of game rules to satisfy some ideal that they should. I mean that is just expecting too much. That sort of thing is what mods are for. If you are not happy with Larian's translation of 5e, you can always build a mod to suit your needs, or wait for someone to do it. Not to mention again, that they never stated it was going to be a 100% accurate translation of 5e rules, they stated from the beginning, that is was BASED on 5e. Game companies are generally very specific in their wording, that leaves them a level of control for artistic interpretation.

Last edited by Pandemonica; 21/02/21 05:34 AM.
Joined: Mar 2020
M
member
Offline
member
M
Joined: Mar 2020
Well tbh i would be okay with small options like making some questionable bonus actions to main actions, and making jump less radical in distance (and remove disengage from it), change high advantage and backstab by toggles... small stuff like that no need to be 2 Completely different set of rules with huge Ui and design changes. Im not saying it would not be work, but i think it would worth it for the company as well and i think an AAA priced faithful to dnd game should give us something like that at least, tweaks, these can change the feel of gameplay quite much and open the game for much more players. A lot of smaller rpgs give us options like this. Im not asking for these because the rules are not dnd but these changes they made did not make the game more fun to me (i feel the contrary). I know there are mods but come on, mods are not every time getting updated with the game or mods i would need sometimes clash with each other so i like to play at least the first 2-3 playthroughs without them. This is still EA so im hoping they are listening

Last edited by Mat22; 21/02/21 07:15 AM.
Joined: Apr 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Apr 2020
Originally Posted by Pandemonica
There is no way Larian is going to basically develop 2 sets of game rules to satisfy some ideal that they should. I mean that is just expecting too much.

No : Solasta, tiny in comparison to Larian, does it = it is easy for Larian + Swen said that "they would try to implement the rules as pure as they can".
They can. They should. Plus we know they could easily give some options to deactivate some of the main core changes (health food, jump, height, scrolls class limit, healing touch throw potion, explosives...)
+ It is more intelligent economically : they want to attract many public and their ideal is to satisfy many public, including D&D fans for future releases.
So, they have to do it.

Last edited by Lunar Dante; 21/02/21 08:09 AM.
Joined: Dec 2020
S
addict
Online Content
addict
S
Joined: Dec 2020
Originally Posted by Labayu
Even if Larian insists on their innovations, it would be nice if there were an optional D&D 5e mode, especially in light of it supposedly being a D&D 5e based game.

Such a thing might require a mod at this point, actually. Which would be fine, if someone who knows the technical aspects of the game's coding could get things up and running relatively quickly. Stuff like tweaking high ground/low ground, backstab advantage, enemy AC/HP and the bonus actions would likely be possible. Adding in stuff like player-controlled reactions and the dodge action would be far more complicated since the proper coding framework for them probably doesn't exist yet, however.

Something like this happened in the D:OS2 community, with them creating a mod that was borne out of the grievances people had with the armor system called Divinity Unleashed. It ended up being way better balanced in the end since it was really a comprehensive rebalancing mod. The main feature was that it changed armor from essentially being an extended health bar that protected you from status effects into a damage reduction system, so while it did result in status effect spam like the first game, status effects were also rebalanced and it made utility battlemage builds viable all the way to endgame. It also adjusted spells like Bless to be far more usable, meaning blessed surfaces were now far more practical to utilize.

Experiencing how the changes from that mod impacted the experience for myself is part of the reason why my arguments in regards to BG3 are the way they are, even if I never actually did finish a full playthrough with the mod since I had basically played through the game like 5 times at that point and BG3/Solasta/Pathfinder: WotR had begun taking all of my attention by then. It was also starting to get difficult enough that I had to accept that I wasn't nearly as good at the game in terms of using conventional strategies as I thought I was, rather than abusing certain things that were overpowered in the vanilla version.

Ideally we shouldn't need a mod to begin with, but it is always a fallback option if some kind soul out there with enough time on their hands decides on that undertaking.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 21/02/21 08:13 AM.
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Ideally we shouldn't need a mod to begin with, but it is always a fallback option if some kind soul out there with enough time on their hands decides on that undertaking.

I would really rather the core game was right, considering it may well be built on for future releases (DLCs, spinoffs, sequels). We shouldn’t need mods for all of those too. Besides, the more Larian improvise, the more work they’re making for themselves trying to balance things later on (assuming they care about balance). I wish they would trust the rules. Flaming Sphere is just the latest example of how they’re trying to shoehorn D&D into their mechanics rather than build systems to make it work that will useful for other spells. I think we can extrapolate that Spiritual Weapon is going to be just as mangled.

Going so far off-piste is really going to hurt if Larian does end up pursuing a DM mode. Having a really strong foundation that could be used for people to build modules and run games like a VTT would be incredible, especially for folks who can’t play D&D in the same room. But that won’t work if the ruleset is some kind of bastardised offshoot that will only get more hackneyed as more subclasses, spells etc are added in from other sourcebooks.

Perhaps I’m better off placing my hope in the Solasta team, maybe if the game does well enough they’ll have the resources to work in that direction.

Joined: Dec 2020
S
addict
Online Content
addict
S
Joined: Dec 2020
Originally Posted by LukasPrism
I would really rather the core game was right, considering it may well be built on for future releases (DLCs, spinoffs, sequels). We shouldn’t need mods for all of those too. Besides, the more Larian improvise, the more work they’re making for themselves trying to balance things later on (assuming they care about balance). I wish they would trust the rules. Flaming Sphere is just the latest example of how they’re trying to shoehorn D&D into their mechanics rather than build systems to make it work that will useful for other spells. I think we can extrapolate that Spiritual Weapon is going to be just as mangled.

Going so far off-piste is really going to hurt if Larian does end up pursuing a DM mode. Having a really strong foundation that could be used for people to build modules and run games like a VTT would be incredible, especially for folks who can’t play D&D in the same room. But that won’t work if the ruleset is some kind of bastardised offshoot that will only get more hackneyed as more subclasses, spells etc are added in from other sourcebooks.

Perhaps I’m better off placing my hope in the Solasta team, maybe if the game does well enough they’ll have the resources to work in that direction.

I'm starting to suspect that the engine Larian is using just can't support the ability to use a player action to move a spell effect, which is why all summons are their own separate controllable entity. The engine also doesn't support true flight, which is why you have Harpies jumping everywhere, Flaming Sphere rolls on the ground, and so on and so forth. It would not be too much of a stretch to believe that Spiritual Weapon would work in exactly the same way. (Coincidentally, there is no example of true flight in D:OS2 either, there was a spell that allowed you to sprout wings in that game, but all it did was to give you the ability to spend an extra point of AP to jump huge distances for about 3 turns.)

I wish Larian would just go out and say it if my suspicions are correct. It would do wonders in managing expectations around here, and direct suggestions towards things that are actually possible to begin with. (And if they make a sequel, please for the love of all that's holy, build a new engine from scratch. The BG series does not deserve to be tied to a game engine that originated from an entirely different series, and I say this as someone that has never played BG1 and BG2)

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 21/02/21 09:32 AM.
Joined: Sep 2017
Location: Norway
S
addict
Offline
addict
S
Joined: Sep 2017
Location: Norway
Originally Posted by Melkyor95
Hello everyone,

BG1 and 2 have achieved the feat of being a very faithful transposition of AD&D into video games.

I just have one question for those who have played Early Access before:
By playing BG3, will I feel like I'm really participating in a D&D5 campaign, with the same rules and the same possibilities?

Thank you in advance for your answers

BG1&2 wasn't exactly what I'd call "very faithful" to AD&D, but relative to BG3/D&D5e, they certainly were. If you played DOS2, more than playing a faithful D&D rendition, with BG3 EA you are likely to feel like you are playing DOS2/3 with a good D&D5e themed mod. Don't expect faithful implementations as Larian's paramount concern is making a fun game. The subjective interpretation of fun is heavily skewed in favor of DOS-style of silly fun though...with not so much regard for immersion breaking or balance breaking aspects.

Embrace the cheese, or you will have a hard time of this.

Last edited by Seraphael; 21/02/21 09:30 AM.
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
I'm starting to suspect that the engine Larian is using just can't support the ability to use a player action to move a spell effect, which is why all summons are their own separate controllable entity. The engine also doesn't support true flight, which is why you have Harpies jumping everywhere, Flaming Sphere rolls on the ground, and so on and so forth. It would not be too much of a stretch to believe that Spiritual Weapon would work in exactly the same way. (Coincidentally, there is no example of true flight in D:OS2 either, there was a spell that allowed you to sprout wings in that game, but all it did was to give you the ability to spend an extra point of AP to jump huge distances for about 3 turns.)

You’re absolutely right and it’s only occurring to me now that Levitate, Fly, Telekinesis, Bigby’s Hand and many other spells are going to be ruined in this engine. This saddens me greatly.

Joined: Feb 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Feb 2020
Originally Posted by Seraphael
BG1&2 wasn't exactly what I'd call "very faithful" to AD&D, but relative to BG3/D&D5e, they certainly were. If you played DOS2, more than playing a faithful D&D rendition, with BG3 EA you are likely to feel like you are playing DOS2/3 with a good D&D5e themed mod. Don't expect faithful implementations as Larian's paramount concern is making a fun game. The subjective interpretation of fun is heavily skewed in favor of DOS-style of silly fun though...with not so much regard for immersion breaking or balance breaking aspects.

Embrace the cheese, or you will have a hard time of this.
Thank you for your reply.
When I read the other interventions and see streams on BG3, it comforts me in the idea that this game is like chocolate flavored cake and not like real chocolate cake.

It reminds me of a recent comment that said BG3 was to D&D5 what vinegar is to wine.

I imagine that it will be able to give pleasure to a lot of players but for a fan of D&D and who wants to make a D&D game - like BG1 and BG2 did - it seems to me much more complicated with this DOS3.

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
I'm hoping that AT LEAST the modding community CAN mod the game in such a way that it would require.

Joined: Feb 2021
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
I love this game, but I do agree that they would improve the game by implementing more of the Core 5e rules. The more they steered away from the core rules, the more imbalances they create. Better off just going 5e and you'd have less difficulties later.

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Does anyone here even know how much modders can do? I mean, there are already mods out there, but I haven't tried any. I am just interested to know if someone can predict just how much one can expect from future mods? Would it be possible to make it fairly accurate to PHB rules?

Page 19 of 28 1 2 17 18 19 20 21 27 28

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5