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Now I have read a bunch of teories on the forum about the skillganing in hardcore mode..

So i did a experiment
have started a newgame 3 times on hardcore mode now just so check things out.. and there is no pattern at all

First time i started:
lv2 my dk1 m 2.
lv3 dk1 m1.
lv4dk1 m1.
lv5dk2 m2
lv 6 "dk1 m2"

and in this pattern it was. Later in this game they gained normal skills exept the first level after the 5th,10th,15 and so forth the main kept gaining 2 and 1 but only the first level after the levels mentioned above.

Second time i started a game on hardcore: my main gained 2 skills every level and dk 1 exept 5,10,15..... then both gained 2.. strange (more skillpoints total in this game) than first time I started!

Third time: (this one is strange)
Lv 2 dk1 m1
lv 3 dk1 m2
lv 4 dk2 m2
lv5 dk2 m2
lv 6 dk1 m1
Now i stopped so I could post you this mail
this last startover I gained Most skillpoints total

So now I am a large ? after this experiment I dont understand [nocando]..

First of all: I have a bad feeling this is a bug since its no system in this what so ever..

But personal I like the deal that if you play on Hardcore mode u get more skillpoints..
But it should be more systemiced than this... hehehe

So now Its time for a Serious Answer:)

Tell us the truth??

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I'm still not convinced this is a bug. Perhaps you get skillpoints dependant on a certain behaviour? Like if you damage enough enemies with the dk, but barely any with the hero, your dk gets 2 skillpoint whereas your hero gets only 1?

But yes, it could also be a bug. I'm guessing we'll find out tomorrow when the Larians get back to their develop-cave!


Tovi May Raan refresh you!
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aye aye I hope so:)

But you have a nice teori there..

But when playing your two character will alwasy hit the same total
no matter if the dk dont do [nocando] and the main do all the total will always be the same..

but here the total of actual skillpoints gained aint the same total


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Well after VanHeLsinG's tests, I start to believe it is a bug. It makes no sense that whoever hits the most gets the most skillpoints. The guy who casts protective spells, healing spells, gets the party deadlier equipment... has as much credit.


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My experience on the early levels using hardcore with patch 1.42 installed:

2 M-2, DK-1
3 M-1, DK-1
4 M-1, DK-1
5 M-2, DK-3

Appears kind of random to me. On any case, I am happy to take it.


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There's a 30% chance that one of your two characters gets 2 skill points when he levels up when playing the game on “Hardcore”.

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Indeed, it's not a bug. It's a "reward" for playing hardcore. Every time you gain a level, there is a chance that a char gets one skillpoint more.


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Indeed, it's not a bug. It's a "reward" for playing hardcore. Every time you gain a level, there is a chance that a char gets one skillpoint more.


Very cool, thanks for resolving this. Can you be slightly more specific though?

Is it indeed 30% chance per level of getting extra skill point, like previous poster suggests? Is it possible for both characters to get the extra skill point at the same level, or just one or the other? Any other relevant parameters?

Last edited by tashtego9; 10/05/04 01:46 PM.
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Good Reading <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes its possible that both your chars get the extra point:)

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Heh, are you sure you really wanted to know this? Now you'll all be re-loading every time you're about to gain a level to get the extra skill point <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> The most persistent of you until *both* characters gain the extra point <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

@Larian: Well, that was your choice of course but I think it's a bit dangerous to put stuff like that in a game since it can quickly become very annoying for the "power gamers" who wants the best possible character. That's why many of the newer and better AD&D games have a "Maximum hitpoints at level-up" option - let the player decide whether or not he/she wants to play by the official rules and let everyone else get all the hitpoints without wasting time loading over and over again...

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@Larian: Well, that was your choice of course but I think it's a bit dangerous to put stuff like that in a game since it can quickly become very annoying for the "power gamers" who wants the best possible character. That's why many of the newer and better AD&D games have a "Maximum hitpoints at level-up" option - let the player decide whether or not he/she wants to play by the official rules and let everyone else get all the hitpoints without wasting time loading over and over again...


I've heard people saying this before, and I think it's such bollox. Like the people who reload to get the best possible weapon and armour...

You're basically saying that: Please remove the randomness so that I don't end up cheating, because I have a very weak willpower and I can't control myself.

Because that's what it is: Cheating. For the same effort you might aswell save yourself the trouble and hack into the game to give you more skillpoints. I'm sure by now someone has created a skillpoint editor.

Last time I checked, power gaming isn't cheating. Power gaming is spending hours upon hours in the battlefields killing every single enemy, and scraping together every bit of experience. It is not cheating.

My point is: Simply don't reload the game. It's just that easy. Keep playing. Accept what the random-gods have given you. Sometimes it will be bad, sometimes it will be good. That's life, you can't always have it good.

And if you really can't control yourself, go to your local pharmacy and get a couple of reload-patches. Keep taking a smaller dose each day, until one day you can fully quit.


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Well, I'm not playing on hardcore level so I really don't care <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


I'm just pointing out some issues that randomness in player rewards can have in a game design. Some people will think they have a 30% chance of getting a reward at level up... others will think that there is a 70% chance they are punished. Is that bottle of beer half full or half empty?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

I work with game design myself and we've had these discussions many times. Some players (actually myself included) can accept random events/rewards and will just "go with the flow" in a game - knowing that nomatter what the gods of fate throws their way they'll probably be able to complete the game. Others *hate* it... the logical decision as a game developer: let the player choose, for christ sake <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Whether or not reloading is cheating should be up to the individual player.. in fact, what is cheating anyway? Want to use a skill editor? Go ahead! Want god mode? Go ahead... I don't care. As a game developer all I want is for you, the player, to have as much fun as possible - because then I sell more games.

Gamers tend to think game development is more "art" than "business".. Personally, I believe it's a (tough!) business where the game developer tries to include as many of his/her "artistic" ideas as at all possible while staying within budget and maintaining a large player base.

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the logical decision as a game developer: let the player choose, for christ sake


Not always true. The options will simply pile up. There are some gamers (like me) who don't want hundreds of options in a game because a) It gets too complex and overwhelming, and b) It'll start to feel as if it you are developing the game, not the developer.

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Whether or not reloading is cheating should be up to the individual player.. in fact, what is cheating anyway? Want to use a skill editor? Go ahead! Want god mode? Go ahead... I don't care. As a game developer all I want is for you, the player, to have as much fun as possible - because then I sell more games.


I stand firmly on my opinion of cheating. Cheating to me is: Giving yourself an unfair advantages over the normal circumstances in which you have to play in. So if the game, by standard, has a hero that is invincible, it isn't cheating.

Furthermore, I think cheating is like being really rich. It's something that at first might seem really good, but turns out to be a real drag. Rich people don't really have as much fun in life as less rich people, because they take more things for granted. A poor person might find great joy and satisfaction from finally being able to buy that car they've always wanted, whilst a rich person wouldn't be as happy with his new car.

Same with cheating. Most people ruin the game for themselves by cheating, and alot of the times without even realizing it. They'll just cheat and get bored real fast, and call the game bad. They'll have less fun than if they completed the game normally.

In multiplayer it's even worse, because cheating causes frustration and paranoia (since you don't know who is cheating and who isn't). Games like CS (which I used to love) are completely ruined because of the vast amount of cheaters. This isn't fun at all.

The only thing cheating is good at in singleplayer games is some replayability when you've already played it to death on normal mode. People might try an old game again to find out what it's like to cheat. But often, the cheats bore the gamer pretty fast, and the replayability is very limited.


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because then I sell more games.


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />If you want to sell more game, you have to make a game and just completely focus on graphics and physics. I swear to god, if you have those two things, your game will sell. Let's face it: To the majority of "gamers", gameplay is dead. All people want is eyecandy they can use to show their friends how wonderful their new monster computer is.


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Personally I hate randomness. How can I expect to get a matching set of shadow armour or somesuch if drops are random. I believe replayablity should not come from randomisation but rather from multiple paths to an objective.


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