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Tuco Offline OP
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As per title, it doesn't really make much sense to see crossbow bolts tracing such a curve arc on a target barely few meters away.

I know it's a rather minor nitpicking, but it's honestly jarring to look at and it would take almost no effort to fix, so I wanted to say it somewhere.

I also realize that if things were even just a bit more realistic arrows would have a less pronounced arc, too, but hey, one little step at the time.

Last edited by Tuco; 12/10/20 01:05 PM.

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+1

Crossbows shots would only curve in extremely long distances.


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Crossbows shooting in a straight line has been a common gaming trope since at least Final Fantasy Tactics, the idea being that on the scale of the map, the power of a crossbow means that the arrow effectively flies in a straight line.

Not sure it needs a fix, but it wouldn't bother me either way. I will say it's not necessarily bad to have some differentiation between crossbows and normal bows, otherwise it's just reskinning.

5e also assumes projectiles go in a straight line, as has always been the case in D&D.

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Tuco Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Druid_NPC
+1

Crossbows shots would only curve in extremely long distances.

Yeah, to be fastidious about it for the scale of these maps arrows should be basically straight too. The arc should be barely perceptible.

But hey, as I said, one thing at the time and differentiating them a bit may not be a terrible idea.
On the other hand, no way around the fact that on the small scale a crossbow bolt is basically as straight as a bullet.


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thats a heck of a lot of misconceptions.
Also bringing up realism in fantasy is always difficult, but lets try.

What are we even talking about?
We are talking about hand operated crossbows.
Crossbows are ridiculously in efficient missle launchers. The extremely short powerstroke, paired with very light missles (yes, wooden bolts are a heck of a lot lighter than arrows), and a massive string make for a setup very inefficient energy transfer from the limbs to the missle.
In the game we clearly have hand operated crossbows. Without cocking devices like windlasses it will be next to impossible to get very high draw weights. While Windlass crossbows could exceed 1000lbs of drawweight, you will have a hard time cocking a 400lbs crossbow even with a footrest and both hands. thats basicly a 400 lbs deadlift.

Warbows with up to (and sometimes over) 200lbs were pretty common medieval weapons. On the lower end examples have been found that would have been in the 140 range. Usually warbows were likely in the 150-170lbs area.

So about the firing arcs:
On long ranges crossbows drop off way harder than bows. Thats because their light projectiles carry less momentum and are more prone to drag.
But we are talking distances of mostly 30 meters or less. Neither bow nor crossbow would have any noticable arch. they will be about straight.

You can find many good tests e.g. from tods workshop, running test series with all kinds of weapons. e.g. with a 860lbs windlass crossbow vs a 95lbs longbow. while having 9 times the draw weight, the projectile only has ~2,5 times the energy and momentum on point blank.
On testing a 160 pound warbow with reproducitons of the mary rose arrows, the arrows carried more momentum and energy on 10 meters, than the 860lbs windlass on point blank range.

now considering that those guys in our game are not carrying a humongous crossbow with a windlass that takes easily 30 seconds to reload, but more likely lighter crossbows you can cock with body strength, the numbers for the crossbow would fall dramaticly lower.
Most likely, forgetting about all the heroic fantasy stuff:
From the weapons we see in the game, the crossbows would not come even remotely close to the energy, the momentum, the penetration and the firing speed of the bows. now way.

so lets not go for realism because nothing about what happens there on the screen is realistic.
If one feels those fantasy Crossbows are supposed to deal more damage and therefor shoot flatter. why not. perhaps they got magical enhanced limbs of stuff, or a rare dwarfen material that is somehow busted. But going for the "realism" route makes no sense, especially in that context.

Last edited by DuderusMcRuleric; 12/10/20 02:23 PM.
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Tuco Offline OP
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That's a whole lot of uninteresting and irrelevant details right there.
Let's stick to the topic ("bolts should trace such a pronounced arc on such short distance") instead of being pedantic for the sake of it.

Especially since you nailed the point yourself:
Quote
But we are talking distances of mostly 30 meters or less. Neither bow nor crossbow would have any noticable arch. they will be about straight.


Mostly because, putting any realism aside, it just LOOKS BAD.

Last edited by Tuco; 12/10/20 02:27 PM.

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+1
This goes for bow and arrow too. Please go back to how it was in divinity original sin 1 or something along those lines. The arc just looks very bad.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
That's a whole lot of uninteresting and irrelevant details right there.
Let's stick to the topic ("bolts should trace such a pronounced arc on such short distance") instead of being pedantic for the sake of it.

Especially since you nailed the point yourself:
Quote
But we are talking distances of mostly 30 meters or less. Neither bow nor crossbow would have any noticable arch. they will be about straight.


Mostly because, putting any realism aside, it just LOOKS BAD.

Its neither uninteresting nor irrelevant.

TLDR: Arrows or bolts wouldnt curve in the distance that we can fire them ingame due to physics.

As far as game issues go its not a major one but I can understand why people twitch abit when they see it.

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Tuco Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Demoulius

Its neither uninteresting nor irrelevant.

Maybe not in general, but absolutely in context.
If I'm saying "bolts should fly absolutely straight on the short distance, They shouldn't trace a pronounced arc" what's the use of jumping in with "TERRIBLE MISCONCEPTIONS!" followed by sort of peer-reviewed paper arguing how much force they generate, just to come to the same conclusion "Well, yeah, they really shouldn't, by the way".


Last edited by Tuco; 12/10/20 02:47 PM.

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Personally I think it's fine for mechanical reasons. I imagine crossbows would be harder to use(can't shoot past a parapet for example) if they followed a more realistic trajectory.

Last edited by Empress_Kuno; 12/10/20 03:11 PM.
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Originally Posted by Empress_Kuno
Personally I think it's fine for mechanical reasons. I imagine crossbows would be harder to use(can't shoot past a parapet for example) if they followed a more realistic trajectory.


But mechanically its the same as many projectile spells, you just need an interrupted path.


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Tuco Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Druid_NPC
Originally Posted by Empress_Kuno
Personally I think it's fine for mechanical reasons. I imagine crossbows would be harder to use(can't shoot past a parapet for example) if they followed a more realistic trajectory.


But mechanically its the same as many projectile spells, you just need an interrupted path.

And the game already addresses line of sight/interrupted paths, anyway.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN

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