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ok, so before we start with the letter a short info about myself and why i think i can write this letter

iam playing RPG games since 1983.. first the pen +paper versions of bug rogers, than RPG games on C-64, amiga and so on and on
titels like :
bug rogers, das schwarze auge, eye of beholder, crypts of dysgrace, legends of cyrandia, and so on and on.
meaning i know the rules from times, before some of u even where born, and had any idea what an RPG is at all ...

i know many of u claim to have played BG1 and BG2......but i doubt it, because i can read a lot of stuff here, where ppl say they are bg fans, and asking for stuff from DOS, and compare it.
first of all, i wont diskuss with any of this fanboys nor i am motivated to spend any time with them at all. why ?
dont get me wrong, its not personell, but i think they have no clue about an RPG, they know the DOS series and games from larian, and thats it.
as i sayed, its not meant personell or bad, so forgive me if i hurt some feelings with the stuff iam about to write down here it will be poilite promiss^^

1: larian studios is the wrong company for BG-3
larian createt realy great games in case about the divinoty series. but thats it.this games are awesome as games themself.they createed new races, new spells, new rules ( bend them, changed them and so on )
and created games in there owen enviroment, law, rules, and lore.
that wizard of the coast watd to create BG-3 is well known since over 20 years. they sold the rights, larian got them, so OFC WOTC says its a great game, and we are pleased. would be anogo if they would say noway this game sucks.
now we get to the point why larian is the wron company.
larian implementet in a lore,law,rules, and series based games there owen stuff from divinty games. grafik, enviroment, physics,they tryed to fullfill every aspect of a game called BG-3 and overshot it like hell
using the 5e rules for a baldursgate game in the universe of BGis more than just a fail. 5e are well known as noobie arcade rules,because of the fact that the 5e rules are likely based on being : fast, not spending much time and effort, almost every char, and class can do all,learn all, and be all ( for time spending reasons, bvecause not many ppl have the time at all to play a RPG where they realy have to put effort into it )
a more concerning reason is, that larian is a copany that want to earn money, no problem with that, thats normal. but let face it, this game here is called baldursgate 3.. this game wont and will never reach nor have the magic baldursgate 1+2 had in the past 20 years.this game here is more like a mass effect andromeda, or a dragon age 2....its there, have the name, but thats it.the name bg-3 is there as a money grabber abait, nothing more.
why iam saying all this : i will list some stuff now, where u can see what my point is:

drows, are living under the earth. and are a asplitt race from elfes.they have one good.drow items, cant be worn outside of there world, because they will turn into dust as soon as daylight hits this items.
the only 2 drows who was well known in the world of BG ( i reffer to the world of gb but i mean all , all like the whole swordcoast, liely more the "forgotten realms" )
was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drizzt_Do%27Urden and https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Viconia_DeVir
drizzit and viconia.only these 2 drows where supported for the whole BG series 1 as heroic well known NPC, 1 as party member.

the demoan race, tieflings/underlings was not realy supported , just as a "monster" race u could kill. in the later events of BG2 there was an option to become one.......
these 2 : Raelis Shai+Haer'Dalis was the only 2 notable tieflings in bg1+2 and there later DLC and events

gnolls, are not a pruduct of a dead hyenna.

multy classes was able ONLY via half elf or human
magic was and is based on intelligenz for mages and witchers
paladins and kleriks and druids used wisdom and charisma
mages could NOT learn every spell, nor even use them
cleriks had helas and buffing spells like might,or shield and so on.AOE heals and sigle heals, offensice casts was verry rare for a klerik.
the fighting system was NOT turn based, and not like 1 action each round, because its based on ressource crapp like in bg-3.u could always hit the space for a break, take new actions and go on.
about the fighting system we talk later a bit more.
rolls in combat logs of bg1+2 was balanced with your class, race and your skills....it never happend, when u had strengh 18/90+, that if u needed a 15 u end up with a rolled 3 ....like in bg-3 ....
yes we can say the rules was another rules.....but as i sayed above the 5e rules are the worst they could have used for the game at all.
if it shall be a bg-3 game.. than they should have used the BG rules...point.

the next point is. ( i hope anyone of noticed this so far ) that as more levels u gain, as more miss u have at fighting.....no words for this shit.....
we have meelee miss, range miss ... but hey we also got a "critical miss ( ????????????) and magic spell miss ... öhö....magic miss never exists in the BG world...
if u can cast u hit ....the only reason u cannot cast is, if a magic user wears a heavy armor..... ( i dont want to go to deep into this ) so i just put it like this, its a mroe easy and understandable version.
magic users,like mages or witchers could only use slings, trowing daggers, crossbows, and staffs or in some rare cases a short sword.
here they can use what ever crossing there path.

the party size .... i know thats a big diskusion , and yes the party size HAS to be 6 .. not less....
a typically party in bg 1+2 was :3 fighter, 1 thief, a cleric a mage. point....
cutting it down to 4 and dont have the option for multiclasses is more than bullshit.
and yes larian had in all ther egames 4 chars . because there games never needed more because there chars could do all they wanted.
a warrior could use thief skills to disarm a trap or pick locks.he even could use mage scrolls to use magi.....wtf ?!?!?
we are playing baldursgate .. at lest larian claims it is a BG game...
4 for a bg game is by far to less.espacaly with this setting of stats,and mechaniks for the enemies.

jumping .. seriously ......noone needs that, noone want that. espacaly not of it cost 1 aktioc for a round based fighting system, and ends your turn because u cant do a shit after.
this again is pure DOS system.

i could continue, but i would be sitting here tomorrow morning, and still typing . in short terms, there is more stuff in the game that has nothing to do with the world of baldursgate, as u can imagine.
90% of the game is based on DOS.
there where 2 options for larian that would have fixed all there problöems,
renaming the game to DOS 3 or 4 or what ever...
or take bg2, put the new grafik engine on it. get a new story, but totaly stick in the universe with all stuff arround it, and i mean all.. rules, law, lore, enviroment and so on..
but nothing of this happend. instead they created a moix game.
they also said in an interview that it is a good idea to have the turn based fighting system even if 300.000 players say no its not, lairan would still say it is.

we dont need to talk about the grafik, the grafik, motions, animations and "cutscences" of a dialoge. it is awesome.
but the rest. the lore , the law, the rules, the enviroment. all of this has nothing to do wth BG series lore,law and world at all.

the fighting system :
this kind of turn based fighting system has to be removed from the game asap. it is killing the game, and the motivation of playing the game at all.
at bg u had a pause modus, but all fights where "live" ...if u enter a room with enemies, u firstly hit space for a pause. than take actions, and tell ypour party what to do, what to attack, how to attack, waht to cast. than u hit space again to continue, untill u get to a point where u want to change stuff again. if mor eenemies come across u could hit pause, and told your range classes to engage them early. or continue till they where in melee range.
this was the most awesome, thrilling and exiting part of the BG series.
the enlightmeht system, and interactiosn between the NOS who could join your party was also a big part of the game. where good chars always ha trouble with evil chars, and the decisions we took .
this is totaly not happening here in bg3

basldursgate 3 is missing 90% of the baldursgate games, and has 90% to much of the DOS games.

if this game would be called DOS 3o4 i would say its anawesome game, and woudl gladly pay even more than 60 euro for it.....
but it is a bg 3 game, and has nothing of bg ata ll except the title,a nd some small rferences in game to bg .. like the letter from volo to elminister ( what could not be possible because of the timeline larian talked about ) its more like a must have item to support the game title. not the game at all.
and because its not a bg game iam 100% sure , i wont buy it.
this is my opinion and my fazit to the game.
and yes iam a BG fan, and iam still playing the game, even with this old grafik.

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Dismissing that I am a BG fan when I've spent over a decade on BG related forums asking for a true sequel / more games like BG1&2 immediately dismisses your entire waste of an OP.

If you actually know anything about BG and more importantly WOTC, you should have learned by now that all DnD games require licensing from WOTC. They do not allow any games to be made on older rulesets. They do not allow any more games using the same rules and features that BG1&2 had.

If you cared at all about this, you would have already been expressing to WOTC, not to the developers that you wanted more games based on AD&D 2.0 just like BG1&2, but you've never done that have you? (Pro tip back in the day I even tried emailing them such requests, but it seems like I was the only person doing so).

All D&D fans want games made on the latest rulesets, there is no demand at all to WOTC for more games like BG1/2, only for more games using the latest D&D rules, and so that is what they have licensed.

Unlike you, I have already learned a long time ago that we will never ever ever ever get any more games like BG1&2. The only thing we can get is this game right here using the latest ruleset, because people like the OP never actually asked WOTC for more AD&2 2.0 games.

Don't buy BG3, no one cares. But at the same time you will never get another game like BG2, and blaming the developers isn't ever going to do anything because its not up to them what kind of D&D game they can make.

Last edited by DumbleDorf; 12/10/20 02:54 PM.
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I am 100% convinced this is yet another troll post about how this is 'DOS 3'. I'm not going to go, point by point, on how you are wrong, so I'll be concise:

1) Everything you said a bout the rules is wrong. There are no 'BG rules'. It's D&D Rules. And this is 5E. Anyone can multiclass. Spells can miss. D&D is turn based. Clerics have offensive spells.

2) 'Miss' in combat is a catch-all term. Either your spell failed because they rolled to resist, or your ranged touch spell failed to hit their armor class, or your attack failed to hit their armor class. Etc. Any time your offense attack fails to do damage, it's a 'Miss'.

3) You can jump in D&D. You can become Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon. There's the Jump spell, and there's feats to jump higher. Being a Monk, you can, if you build properly, get as high as 90 feet in the air. This is not a 'pure DOS system'.

4) This game is based on D&D 5E. Casters can wear heavy armor if they have heavy armor proficiency. That is in the 5E rules.

5) Critical misses are a thing. So are critical hits.

6) The 'law, lore, and world' is Baldur's gate. It's the land of Faerun (in the Forgotten Realms). It's the city of Baldur's Gate. It's the rules of D&D. BG 1 & 2 are canon events in BG3.

7) We only have the evil party members so far. There are good party members. And there's no real alignment system in D&D anymore. That system was too rigid. Plus, good or evil; you have to work together to not have your brain and soul devoured by a baby mindflayer.

I could go on but the more I read your post, the more I'm convinced this is a bait post. This same stuff has been said, daily, for the past 8 months. And it's been wrong, for the past 8 months.

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Originally Posted by Eguzky
I am 100% convinced this is yet another troll post about how this is 'DOS 3'. I'm not going to go, point by point, on how you are wrong, so I'll be concise:

1) Everything you said a bout the rules is wrong. There are no 'BG rules'. It's D&D Rules. And this is 5E. Anyone can multiclass. Spells can miss. D&D is turn based. Clerics have offensive spells.

2) 'Miss' in combat is a catch-all term. Either your spell failed because they rolled to resist, or your ranged touch spell failed to hit their armor class, or your attack failed to hit their armor class. Etc. Any time your offense attack fails to do damage, it's a 'Miss'.

3) You can jump in D&D. You can become Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon. There's the Jump spell, and there's feats to jump higher. Being a Monk, you can, if you build properly, get as high as 90 feet in the air. This is not a 'pure DOS system'.

4) This game is based on D&D 5E. Casters can wear heavy armor if they have heavy armor proficiency. That is in the 5E rules.

5) Critical misses are a thing. So are critical hits.

6) The 'law, lore, and world' is Baldur's gate. It's the land of Faerun (in the Forgotten Realms). It's the city of Baldur's Gate. It's the rules of D&D. BG 1 & 2 are canon events in BG3.

7) We only have the evil party members so far. There are good party members. And there's no real alignment system in D&D anymore. That system was too rigid. Plus, good or evil; you have to work together to not have your brain and soul devoured by a baby mindflayer.

I could go on but the more I read your post, the more I'm convinced this is a bait post. This same stuff has been said, daily, for the past 8 months. And it's been wrong, for the past 8 months.


+1

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Originally Posted by Eguzky
I am 100% convinced this is yet another troll post about how this is 'DOS 3'. I'm not going to go, point by point, on how you are wrong, so I'll be concise:

1) Everything you said a bout the rules is wrong. There are no 'BG rules'. It's D&D Rules. And this is 5E. Anyone can multiclass. Spells can miss. D&D is turn based. Clerics have offensive spells.

2) 'Miss' in combat is a catch-all term. Either your spell failed because they rolled to resist, or your ranged touch spell failed to hit their armor class, or your attack failed to hit their armor class. Etc. Any time your offense attack fails to do damage, it's a 'Miss'.

3) You can jump in D&D. You can become Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon. There's the Jump spell, and there's feats to jump higher. Being a Monk, you can, if you build properly, get as high as 90 feet in the air. This is not a 'pure DOS system'.

4) This game is based on D&D 5E. Casters can wear heavy armor if they have heavy armor proficiency. That is in the 5E rules.

5) Critical misses are a thing. So are critical hits.

6) The 'law, lore, and world' is Baldur's gate. It's the land of Faerun (in the Forgotten Realms). It's the city of Baldur's Gate. It's the rules of D&D. BG 1 & 2 are canon events in BG3.

7) We only have the evil party members so far. There are good party members. And there's no real alignment system in D&D anymore. That system was too rigid. Plus, good or evil; you have to work together to not have your brain and soul devoured by a baby mindflayer.

I could go on but the more I read your post, the more I'm convinced this is a bait post. This same stuff has been said, daily, for the past 8 months. And it's been wrong, for the past 8 months.




Couldn't have said it better myself.

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Originally Posted by Eguzky
I am 100% convinced this is yet another troll post about how this is 'DOS 3'. I'm not going to go, point by point, on how you are wrong, so I'll be concise:

1) Everything you said a bout the rules is wrong. There are no 'BG rules'. It's D&D Rules. And this is 5E. Anyone can multiclass. Spells can miss. D&D is turn based. Clerics have offensive spells.

2) 'Miss' in combat is a catch-all term. Either your spell failed because they rolled to resist, or your ranged touch spell failed to hit their armor class, or your attack failed to hit their armor class. Etc. Any time your offense attack fails to do damage, it's a 'Miss'.

3) You can jump in D&D. You can become Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon. There's the Jump spell, and there's feats to jump higher. Being a Monk, you can, if you build properly, get as high as 90 feet in the air. This is not a 'pure DOS system'.

4) This game is based on D&D 5E. Casters can wear heavy armor if they have heavy armor proficiency. That is in the 5E rules.

5) Critical misses are a thing. So are critical hits.

6) The 'law, lore, and world' is Baldur's gate. It's the land of Faerun (in the Forgotten Realms). It's the city of Baldur's Gate. It's the rules of D&D. BG 1 & 2 are canon events in BG3.

7) We only have the evil party members so far. There are good party members. And there's no real alignment system in D&D anymore. That system was too rigid. Plus, good or evil; you have to work together to not have your brain and soul devoured by a baby mindflayer.

I could go on but the more I read your post, the more I'm convinced this is a bait post. This same stuff has been said, daily, for the past 8 months. And it's been wrong, for the past 8 months.


makes +2 now laugh

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Imagine actually reading the full OP before responding, big yikes!

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Originally Posted by DumbleDorf
Imagine actually reading the full OP before responding, big yikes!


Imagine assuming that anyone who disagrees hasn't read the full OP by default, big yikes

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I read it four times, or more, I wanted to understand what was being said, and I think I got the gist of it, but I am still not sure. I think it is a Google Translate. Google Translate is horrid at translations.

But I am think the OP is saying that he doesn't like the current iteration of BG3 because it isn't 1E or 2E? I know this is spitballing it, but that is what I got out of it.


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Originally Posted by Eguzky
I am 100% convinced this is yet another troll post about how this is 'DOS 3'. I'm not going to go, point by point, on how you are wrong, so I'll be concise:

1) Everything you said a bout the rules is wrong. There are no 'BG rules'. It's D&D Rules. And this is 5E. Anyone can multiclass. Spells can miss. D&D is turn based. Clerics have offensive spells.

2) 'Miss' in combat is a catch-all term. Either your spell failed because they rolled to resist, or your ranged touch spell failed to hit their armor class, or your attack failed to hit their armor class. Etc. Any time your offense attack fails to do damage, it's a 'Miss'.

3) You can jump in D&D. You can become Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon. There's the Jump spell, and there's feats to jump higher. Being a Monk, you can, if you build properly, get as high as 90 feet in the air. This is not a 'pure DOS system'.

4) This game is based on D&D 5E. Casters can wear heavy armor if they have heavy armor proficiency. That is in the 5E rules.

5) Critical misses are a thing. So are critical hits.

6) The 'law, lore, and world' is Baldur's gate. It's the land of Faerun (in the Forgotten Realms). It's the city of Baldur's Gate. It's the rules of D&D. BG 1 & 2 are canon events in BG3.

7) We only have the evil party members so far. There are good party members. And there's no real alignment system in D&D anymore. That system was too rigid. Plus, good or evil; you have to work together to not have your brain and soul devoured by a baby mindflayer.

I could go on but the more I read your post, the more I'm convinced this is a bait post. This same stuff has been said, daily, for the past 8 months. And it's been wrong, for the past 8 months.


Congrats, you have a Very Rare +3 post now.

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I think we have been infiltrated by the bozos from the Steam forums.


-Agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.
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According to reddit these forums were mannered, I guess changes had to be made!

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Our favorite drinking game is back! Everybody take a shot.


I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought.

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But it is though...

Also stopped reading after "i know many of u claim to have played BG1 and BG2......but i doubt it".

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Originally Posted by jrf773
I read it four times, or more, I wanted to understand what was being said, and I think I got the gist of it, but I am still not sure. I think it is a Google Translate. Google Translate is horrid at translations.

But I am think the OP is saying that he doesn't like the current iteration of BG3 because it isn't 1E or 2E? I know this is spitballing it, but that is what I got out of it.


There are some grammatical mistakes Google Translate wouldn't make - from what I've seen, OP sounds pretty german (some of his grammatical errors I've seen since forever as I live in Germany, lol) and was just very... immersed in his rant.
Anyways, I don't really get what he wanted to say. It's a typical case of "Er redet viel, aber sagt nichts", which can rougly be translated to "Talking a lot but saying only little" in, not having a lot of meaning/sense to it? Which might be too biased but I legit read that long post and didn't get anything out of it.

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Originally Posted by Usako
Originally Posted by jrf773
I read it four times, or more, I wanted to understand what was being said, and I think I got the gist of it, but I am still not sure. I think it is a Google Translate. Google Translate is horrid at translations.

But I am think the OP is saying that he doesn't like the current iteration of BG3 because it isn't 1E or 2E? I know this is spitballing it, but that is what I got out of it.


There are some grammatical mistakes Google Translate wouldn't make - from what I've seen, OP sounds pretty german (some of his grammatical errors I've seen since forever as I live in Germany, lol) and was just very... immersed in his rant.
Anyways, I don't really get what he wanted to say. It's a typical case of "Er redet viel, aber sagt nichts", which can rougly be translated to "Talking a lot but saying only little" in, not having a lot of meaning/sense to it? Which might be too biased but I legit read that long post and didn't get anything out of it.


The TL;DR version of the post is "BG 1 and 2 were 2nd edition. I don't like 5th edition, so BG3 using 5th edition means it's not BG."

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Yeah, that is what I thought. He is entitled to his opinions, however I can't say I agree with him.\

Edit, but I must admit I have a special fondness of the 1E and 2E rule set. Not sure I want to go back to rolling percentages though. (Thief abilities)

Last edited by jrf773; 12/10/20 03:55 PM.

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The original BG series had a unique olfactory component that cannot be ignored. The smell of that thick paint on each of the six CD's was intoxicating. There was some real alchemy going on in those days, and I hope Larian considers this for the Special Platinum release.

But for D&D in general, it has always embraced evolution. From Chainmail, to Greyhawk & Blackmoor, and the hundreds of Dragon Magazine articles, then the "editions", change has always been part of the game. And the spirit of those changes has always been, "Wouldn't it be fun if ..."

To quote Neil Peart, "Plus ca change, plus ce le meme chose."

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The amount of typos, spelling mistakes and sloppiness make this eye-watering to read. So I didn't.

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When I saw tiefling-bard singing like Disney's princess I wished for my own BG3 with blackjack and hookers, not that DOS3.

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