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journeyman
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In 5e, disengage is an action. If you want to move away from an opponent and not provoke opportunity reaction attacks it's going to cost you an action, or a very specialized spell, skill, or feat. But in BG3, everyone gets two options to disengage as a bonus action, they can shove (push isn't a thing in D&D) their opponent or jump away. Also, where's the athletics or acrobatics checks to determine the success of this shove? If there is one, it highly favours the one doing the shove right now. Also, a successful shove action (yes it's an action) has a choice of moving an opponent (of up to one size larger) 5' (one square) or knocking prone; and not shoving someone 15' horizontally. Also, since when has jump become a bonus action disengage, because it makes action economy and disengage (or specific spells, skills, or feats) completely useless.

Last edited by ReaLMoisan; 12/10/20 04:11 PM.
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You're right, and many others have also pointed this out.

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Originally Posted by ReaLMoisan
In 5e, disengage is an action. If you want to move away from an opponent and not provoke opportunity reaction attacks it's going to cost you an action, or a very specialized spell, skill, or feat. But in BG3, everyone gets two options to disengage as a bonus action, they can shove (push isn't a thing in D&D) their opponent or jump away. Also, where's the athletics or acrobatics checks to determine the success of this shove? If there is one, it highly favours the one doing the shove right now. Also, a successful shove action (yes it's an action) has a choice of moving an opponent (of up to one size larger) 5' (one square) or knocking prone; and not shoving someone 15' horizontally. Also, since when has jump become a bonus action disengage, because it makes action economy and disengage (or specific spells, skills, or feats) completely useless.




Shoving is a thing in 5e. PHB pg195
Using the Attack action, you can make a special melee
attack to shove a creature, either to knock it prone or
push it away from you. Ifyou're able to make multiple
attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces
one of them.
The target of your shove must be no more than one
size larger than you, and it must be within your reach.
You make a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the
target's Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics)
check (the target chooses the ability to use). If you win
the contest, you either knock the target prone or push
it 5 feet away from you.

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So, you just repeated what I typed? Obviously I know all this, that's why it's in the original post you're replaying to. What's the point of your reply?

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right and right now they are being push 4.5meter away which is 14 FEET! and obviously it needs to be an action to shove.

Last edited by Madoric; 12/10/20 06:06 PM.
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Originally Posted by ReaLMoisan
So, you just repeated what I typed? Obviously I know all this, that's why it's in the original post you're replaying to. What's the point of your reply?



you are right my bad.

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For me the disengage is just silly, It basically cancela attacks of opportunity.

The shove as a bonus action I'm not sure if it is a bad thing, but I'd like to playtest it with reduced distance (5ft like PHB) and with contested str checks (my rougue should no be pushing minitaurs so easily). If left as a bonus action I believe the option to make an enemy prone should not be added, but with only the push option might be a fun play with verticality that will be more used than it's PHB counterpart. Of course I could be wrong and even after the changes It still can be bad.

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I suspect jump is a bonus action because Larian sure love their damn puddles of fire and other similar effects. Every fight there is a friggin puddle of something deadly. You'd barely get to do anything in a fight if getting out of those was a full action.

I don't actually mind the puddles and jumping being a bonus action but jump needs to not be a free disengage... Maybe leave the jumper vulnerable to attack of opportunity that doesn't stop the jump but does damage? Would also be cool to be able to jump on enemies from above with a gnarly penalty to you if you fail the acrobatics check or whatever.

Also the shove or push or whatever it's called should be a strength based full action. It is really fun to shove goblins off roofs or skeletons down pits but man is it overpowered as it is. Except in cases where obvious pits sometimes have invisible wall around them stopping you from pushing enemies in...

Last edited by YelloB; 12/10/20 05:31 PM.
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Jump, "the instant get out of jail free card for everyone, all the time" is just so easy mode. But they have to have some way for you to get out of all the horrible and overused environmental effects.

Edit...sorry that sounds much too negative. This game has a lot of great stuff about it but there's a few things that don't make since as a BG or 5e game. Thank you Larian for having an early access so we can give our feedback, good and bad.

Last edited by Meeshe; 12/10/20 05:35 PM.
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Keeping push (really should be shove) a bonus action as they've done destroys the balance of the game. It's all about action economy. Shove and disengage cost an action for a reason, and there's a reason only specific classes and sub classes get more than one action per turn too. Also, making push a bonus action destroys things like the spell Arms of Hadar, which requires a first level spell, an action to cast, and a failed save for an opponent to lose their reactions to do things like opportunity attacks. Or taking a feat like mobile, that requires an action to do an attack on an opponent, and hit or miss, you don't provoke opportunity attacks from them that turn. In both cases, this still requires an action accomplish, the spell adds some damage to cancelling their reactions, and the feat is an added bonus for attacking an opponent, but in both cases it still requires an action. There are specific instances where a disengage is a bonus action or even a reaction, but it's extremely rare. See a rogue using cunning action, but these are rare exceptions.

D&D is over 45 years old, and after decades of balancing, we've come to the 5e rule set. It's not perfect, but it must be doing something right because D&D's popularity has been on the rise since 5e came out. Having everyone getting a bonus action disengage with a jump or push thing is crap, and it unbalances the game in many significant ways. Just like all their other deviations BG3 makes from the 5e rule set. They drastically change the balance of the game, and over 45 years of evolution is tossed out the window to make a DoS/5e hybrid abomination. This game does a lot of things right, but almost without exception, every deviation from the 5e rule set negatively unbalances this game drastically.

Last edited by ReaLMoisan; 12/10/20 06:40 PM.

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