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I agree with most of the posts here. Basically the main character is being outdone by the companions on every level. This isn't good writing in an rpg in my opinion. The main story should revolve around YOUR character. It should be a personal journey and a way to make YOUR character grow. Instead we get four characters envisioned by a dev that are taking the spotlight, they can play theirs in their own single player game smile

That said I could kinda be okay with playing Astarion if I were given the option of making him female. Some customizing of the pre-made characters would go a long way to make it less their char and more ours.


ps. okay five characters, I keep forgetting about Wyll since he never talked and just showed up in camp one day. Wrong alignment so I didn't bother taking him along.

Last edited by Moirnelithe; 13/10/20 03:05 PM.
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maybe I'm just to much in my own headspace, when I play. Though will agree being able to turn Fang boy into Fang Girl would be nice. This just because I tend to play mostly female characters roughly 99%. just don't like male booty being in front of me all the time.

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Yes, sadly the supposed way of playing seems to be that you pick one of the NPCs to play as like in D:OS2.
A self made character will only get the bare minimum of background.

Larian should scrap the idea of playable NPCs and use the time spend on adapting their quests for a player perspective to create new quests centred around your own character. Maybe with a choice of background at the start like in Dragon Age Origins.

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Originally Posted by clavis
Do you feel that anyone of the companions stories stand out more then the other? I can see that you feel the lack of backstory makes custom PC seem overshadowed by the companions maybe??



I think what KingWilhelm meant, and what I meant in my own post, is that normally, you don't even need a backstory for your PC because the main story is your own story. So you're playing through your story in playing through the game. In BG3, however, your story is also the story of those 5 boring people, plus a bunch of other people you come across.

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One of my larger concerns is narratively how it will all play out. I think anyone who has played DoS2 to a great extent can relate to this. I originally played DoS2 towards the start of 2018. At that point, it was officially released. Why I enjoyed it greatly, something about the narrative seemed a bit off when you hit the 3rd act (Arx) it went from structured (depending on how you got there) to kind of a mess. I didn't finish the game. I had a helluva lot of fun, but didn't feel a reason to keep going.

When Definitive Edition was released towards the console release, I gave it another go from the start. And found I had a lot more fun with the story. Structurally it was in much better shape because Larian didn't stop working on it. At that point, I started again from the beginning (but with an Origin character) and enjoyed a 125+ hour play through and saw the game to its completion.

And I'm seeing a lot of the former in BGIII right now. Between character interactions, and story beats at camp and so on. Structure seems to be very loose. And that could be because much of the game is still missing. The last thing I want to see is every desire from the player come true. Because at the end of the day, we're trusting (and I do) Larian to make this game. We're not making it. But I think all of us share one common thing. We all want it to be the best version of the game possible. I don't think anyone would want to wait an additional year after it's fully released to play a massively patched and restructured game again. And not everything we want CAN be added. Just due to time. Like Sven said, there's no please everybody.

We don't even have a scene of the PC (and/or possible companions at the time) of setting up a camp. We crash land head first (literally) to Fae'run and within 5 minutes (if you know where to look) meet 3 separate party members. And you go to camp and it's just magically there, waiting for you. Nobody comments on setting a camp up, or finding shelter, or so on. I get part of DnD is having a base camp, but usually the DM would set that up pretty descriptively, no?

For being a named sequel, there doesn't seem like a lot of reason for it. Again, right now. We're missing 75% (I know it's 3 acts, but I doubt the first act is wholly complete). Even though we're 100 years removed, we should feel like this is more or less the same world we were a part of.

There's a lot of jank right now. Some of it I think is intentional. Most of it will probably be polished to perfection by the time of release. I'm not overly concerned, but I think everyone has some reservations on such a big game.

TL:DR> I have a lot of faith in Larian. There's a lot to be ironed out, but I'm sure it'll get there.

Last edited by odesseiron81; 13/10/20 03:15 PM.
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Eh, I played DOS2 with some friends that hated the origin character mechanic, and hated backstories. They wanted custom characters to be entirely blank slates, and didn't want anything dictated to them. I feel like the origin character mechanic gives something to both kinds of people really nicely. If you want a blank slate to imagine yourself into, you can create a custom character. If you want a character with their own unique story and personality, you choose a origin character.

I guess you want something in-between? Like a blank slate character that still has their own unique backstory? Or do you mean you want the main story to be more about your character and less about anyone else, e.g. like a "chosen one" scenario?

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Originally Posted by clavis
Originally Posted by KingWilhelm
Lets look at Skyrim you have no backstory.. (besides being dragon born). But you are not in a party in Skyrim, the main story is your story. But here the main story is the story of all the companions - nobody is special in this regard- but the companion get a story and their own quests on top. The main character only shares the main story and gets nothing interesting from it. He is not even more important than the companions to the main story.

edit:
you get the brainbug story line ... if you use it to often (which I did not)... so maybe here is more that I didn't explore yet


Do you feel that anyone of the companions stories stand out more then the other? I can see that you feel the lack of backstory makes custom PC seem overshadowed by the companions maybe??


I feel I would be expiring more if I would have picked a origin character for a main. Right now I get 3 characters and a mercenary. Where I would get 4 characters if I choose an origin as main character.
Right now I am the boring one.


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Originally Posted by Moirnelithe
I agree with most of the posts here. Basically the main character is being outdone by the companions on every level. This isn't good writing in an rpg in my opinion. The main story should revolve around YOUR character. It should be a personal journey and a way to make YOUR character grow. Instead we get four characters envisioned by a dev that are taking the spotlight, they can play theirs in their own single player game smile

That said I could kinda be okay with playing Astarion if I were given the option of making him female. Some customizing of the pre-made characters would go a long way to make it less their char and more ours.


ps. okay five characters, I keep forgetting about Wyll since he never talked and just showed up in camp one day. Wrong alignment so I didn't bother taking him along.


Yup, the player character just feels lacklustre in comparison. I actually like the idea of them not being 'special' like they were in BG1 & 2. Sharing the same problem with the companions is also good motivation to work together.


I agree with odesseiron81 regarding the camp, it should be shabbier to start with and maybe have opportunities to upgrade it. I especially want to know who put the bunting up.

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Originally Posted by Booface
I guess you want something in-between? Like a blank slate character that still has their own unique backstory? Or do you mean you want the main story to be more about your character and less about anyone else, e.g. like a "chosen one" scenario?


For my part, I'd like either for there to be a story thread that's specific to your created PC, or for the main story to be centered in such a way that it's your story. This doesn't have to mean anything like a "chosen one" scenario, though.

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Having some dialogues exclusive to our background choices would help a lot in making our custom characters feel more meaningful.


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You are (regardless of what background you chose) an Italian plumber. You purpose is to eat mushrooms, kill turtles and kick their dead bodies around, and also to look for castles where you might pick up some hot chicks in pink dresses.

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I'm going to do something I personally dislike, somewhere in my ramblings it will be there.

Alot of this seems to be that your the boring one, that you don't stand out from the companions because they have a backstory, they have goals, and aspirations, dreams or what not. The custom character doesn't, he's a blank slate. To me that blank slate means that I can write what I want, be who I want to be, I don't need to focus on backstory, I can and do. Yet it's not my backstory that is driving my character forward, so what is it? Is it this thing in my head going to erase me from existance? Is it something less pressing just a wander lust, a drive to adventure? The calling of my goddess? The whispers of the Great Old One within my head? The desire to seek out stronger and more powerful magic, a lust for battle?

How these questions impact the blank slate. I'll use 2 of my characters Keissa and Brulk

Skill checks Keissa always goes for persuasion, never intimidation. Brulk never tries to persuade unless it's hostile negotations. If it fails Keissa tries to knock out those that attack her, and heal them afterwards. Brulk gives no shits and just hammers them they were dumb enough to attack him, he warned them. From this we can see some of their values as a person Keissa would much prefer to talk non threateningly to people, and if she says the wrong thing (failed check) she still tries to refrain from killing people. Brulk is forceful he's right your wrong, and he'll not hesitate to settle it with his axe if need be. In this sense Keissa is unique to her companions, La'eazel is forceful quick to anger, and attack. Shadowheart is to me fickle. Ast is blood thirsty and hates talking any less it gets him something to me. Gale is all about knowledge he is relatively good but he cares more about knowing stuff. So Keissa is different then them. Brulk is for the most part more like La'ezeal then the others in his party.

Keissa won't hesitate to kill goblins, or other 'evil' people or Kahga for that matter she protects innocents and tries to better the world. Brulk doesn't care who he kills, they were in his way, little girl dies thats on her, she's not important. Whats important is getting tadpole out of his head, earning money, and smashing goblins, among other things.

So you see your blank slate isn't so blank anymore your pc begins to take shape, and form. Sure the others have great quests to undertake, for your pc every step is part of a new quest, a new discovery. Even owlbears are new to them, should he kill it? Try to help it, run away? Your pc isn't pregenerated, it's who ever what ever you want them to be. So your pc is taking shape as you play, sure their not pregenerated with set voice styles, or distinct patterns of speech. So that leaves them open, (which seems to be some of the problem) they can be who you want them to be, have quirks that you want them to be. maybe Brulk drinks every night at camp, hates vampires, but gets randy around githyanki. It's up for you to decide, for you to chose. Sure you got baggage with you but their only there to tell your story, serve as meat shields, mobile health potions, a verbal spar. They add to your story by how you chose to interact with them. Perhaps your original way of thinking about them changes, as you learn more about them? maybe that half-ear talking about torture makes you enjoy her more? Again up to you to decide.
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RPG characters when not predesigned or preset can turn into the greatest of characters if you let them, and in the choices that are offered to you by Larian there is a good deal of flexibility for you to turn that blank slate into an adventure worthy of D&D. A story to tell your friends, to share with loved ones. Your fights no matter how they make you want to rage quit, may in time be something you laugh at, or if you shared it something you joke about or are teased about.

Everyone will find out the stories of Ast, La'eazel, Shadowheart, Gale, Wyll, but not everyone will know the travels of Keissa the Mouse, or Brulk Bloodspray, Dinglehemer, Slayer, Frost Wyvernfoot, Thruik Axefeast, George Paul Rameriz Vedictus III. Why is that because noone else will do every thing the same as you, so your blank slate is just a starting point to creating something unique, that you can claim as your own, make your own. Make it not about whoever designed the preset characters, but make it about you.

NO Backstory = there are many games that do it, some do it to often, to blandly. Skyrim comes to mind with limited dailogue, far to much combat, and limited interactions between NPCs. Sure it's a great hack and slash rpg (I use the term rpg loosely in this case. Look at the story though, look at the choices it offers to you. Can you choose to side with Alduin? Can you Choose no side in the fight for Skyrim, and still complete the main quest? Can you choose to kill Jarl Ulfric when you want to, or any of the Jarls for that matter? How about joining the bandits? Most of these are no's, some you might be able to. Yet in the long wrong your given the false sense of freedom of choice. Because the game itself by design limits what you can do to the world around you.

Here larian is offering you choices, upon choices. Do you simply attack the druids, with no conversation, do you try intimidation, or persusion? Do you try to sneak past the druidic guards, and assassinate Kagha? Do you ignore what happens to the child, or take your revenge, or do you do something in the middle? Do you free Us and cripple it? Do you free Us and travel with him (take him to the helm, unsure if he shows back up. He'd better.) Do you free him, and simply leave? These are the choices that begin your story, that begin to shape your PC. That turns it into your PC, each of these actions have consequences. Does your PC care about the consequences good or bad? Do they stop and reflect try to see every possible consequence? Do they side with someone just because of their race, or class. Do they hate their own kind, so are more then likely to go against the wishes of someone of their own race?

I know this isn't what some want, that this may be to much thought into your blank slate. That all these questions are just to much, are maybe not enough. That in some way even if you answer all these questions, that you still feel overshadowed by your companions. I get it, is it me trying to play devils advocate which I do alot, No. It's me as a writer, as a creative person one that loaths being forced into a pregen'd character, that despises the false sense of freedom of choice that many games force upon you. I personally feel that Larian is offering a wide variety of choices, sometimes more then others. That they are seeking to offer Us the players enough choices that we develop characters that we love, and cherish. That we want to tell our friends about, that will make us rage at the game for hurtin, that will make us cry because we had to reload, that will make us foam at the mouth because we had to go against what we want by the actions of an NPC.

You see a blank slate, and think it will be a blank slate forever. I see a blank slate and want to fill it up. Thats the heart of any true RPG, you start with a blank slate (your character) you begin to fill that slate up by giving it a sex, assigning attribute points, skills, abilities, hair color, eye color, a voice (really need more options and different ones for dwarf, halflings, and githyankis. (Atm IMO the voices only work for the other races, albiet some are a stretch. Yet they don't work for dwarves who's voices IMO are far deeper, halflings more childlike with some depth. and githyanki's rougher more volatile.) a class, a race. Your slate to me fills up more on how you deal with the companions upon meeting them, and continues to fill up with each thing you do, or fail at. Did you nearly get a tentacle hug from the Mind Flayer, did you kill the enthralled fisherman with no regard, and no conversation?

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I guess in my case I have a very hard timing filling that blank slate since I usually play a lawful evil persuasion character. I still don't see a reason why I should care about the thieflings but I don't see a motivation to wipe them out either. What's in it for me? A basket with food? Seriously? The goblin part idem, I need motivation to slaughter them all but since I'm evil there isn't one. And killing just for killing is 'stupid evil' in my book. So after playing EA I still have a blank slate. This was with a high elf rogue. The lolth drow cleric is getting a little more feedback from conversations and doesn't start as a Baldurian so that's good. Still I haven't reached the grove yet but I suspect I will hit the same problem there with her.

Edit: also the tadpole part. I didn't use it, doesn't seem very safe to me. I can't trust it, it might even turn me into a mindflayer. So that's even less blank slate content filled. The companions also get the tadpole convo's so once again companions are outdoing me.

Last edited by Moirnelithe; 13/10/20 04:31 PM.
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Originally Posted by Moirnelithe
I guess in my case I have a very hard timing filling that blank slate since I usually play a lawful evil persuasion character. I still don't see a reason why I should care about the thieflings but I don't see a motivation to wipe them out either. What's in it for me? A basket with food? Seriously? The goblin part idem, I need motivation to slaughter them all but since I'm evil there isn't one. And killing just for killing is 'stupid evil' in my book. So after playing EA I still have a blank slate. This was with a high elf rogue. The lolth drow cleric is getting a little more feedback from conversations and doesn't start as a Baldurian so that's good. Still I haven't reached the grove yet but I suspect I will hit the same problem there with her.

Edit: also the tadpole part. I didn't use it, doesn't seem very safe to me. I can't trust it, it might even turn me into a mindflayer. So that's even less blank slate content filled. The companions also get the tadpole convo's so once again companions are outdoing me.


you've filled out that blank slate more then you evidently realize. Your character is motivated by personal gain, what he can get for doing what an npc wants. (hence he's greedy, or selfish), he is more of a friend to evil characters cause he is one. (hence he's more neutral, so far because he doesn't really care about good evil, or right or wrong. It's about him. Lawful neutral is looking more likely) He also has a firm belief that killing just for killing is stupid evil. (again more neutral then evil, since theres nothing in it for him, and it's just stupid for killing randomly, and indiscriminately) He is in part a rebel probably kicked out of a High Elf community do to his 'Evil' ways, vs his peoples 'good' ways. If he was part of one to begin with. He goes against the grain of High Elves being magic users, in the fact he is a rogue quick of tongue, who wants others to see his point of view with words, other then a knife in the back. So he's probably charming (or thinks he is), yet oddly enough those around him may very well find him charming (alot of persusion checks passed) or find him annoying (alot of checks failed.) or some where in the middle.

So simply by doing what you did, you filled out the slate, and never realized it.

as a writer (or wannabe) I can tell you truthfully, that even the characters we right get away from us, the take on a life of their own without us even realizing it. Some try desperately to keep a character true to the idea we formed them from, yet still escape. Indeed many characters are not who they were when we first thought them up, or become more important then we ever thought they'd be. An example is Drizzt (who some hate, some love, and some don't care about) he was meant to be a secondary character, yet as Salvator wrote he took on a life of his own, and become the (star) of the series.

edit (quick note) Everything you stated is what the creators of those companions did to create the companion. It's not that your pc is outdone, it's the fact that the companions had more time to be fully fleshed out.

Last edited by clavis; 13/10/20 04:45 PM.
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Yes and no. Like you said, the character is looking to be more lawful neutral. This however is not due to any choice of mine. It is due to a lack of truly evil and rewarding alternatives. My character is power hungry, she doesn't care for monetary rewards (even less for a basket of food). She doesn't mind killing to get where she wants to be but randomly killing paints a target on her back. After all this is Faerun and there's those pesky paladins of Tyr all over the place (well they are supposed to be anyway) and combat comes with risks. Even goblins in sufficient quantities can prove to be a threat. My question is, why am I the main character? I could just as easily be a camp follower following the five companions around while THEY figure out how to remove the tadpole and I'll just tag along and get mine done while they're at it.

I think the main problem here is lack of feedback or options to being the main character. The main story line lacks a personal goal aside from getting that thing out of your head. You already have the tadpole in common with your companions but they have visible side stories and are getting feedback for it. You are not.

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Originally Posted by clavis

...

Everything you said is right. But I could do the same as a companion main and get some story on top.
I mean I did the same in divinity. I could play a mercenary or depending on the class I want to play, pick a corresponding origin. I can skill the character to my liking and can behave as I like (good/evil) ect. But I will get more story, more quests, more dialog and personal stuff on top.

So I quit my only non origin run before the town. No point in playing. It felt as if I am missing out on something. (Without origin characters I maybe wouldn't have this issue as there is nothing to miss then.. confused )

With strict classes races, subraces and so on I doubt that here will be a companion for each subrace / class ... so back to the mercenary.

Last edited by KingWilhelm; 13/10/20 05:20 PM.
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+1 to the OP

I felt zero connection to my custom character. I wish it was more like tabletop 5e where it gives you all these brilliant writing prompts to flesh out your character's background. At the end of 5e character creation, most people have a paragraph or two that explains who their character is and what their motivation is. In BG3, I may as well be playing a random townie.

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The custom character needs to have at least as much content as any one of the origin characters, that's, I think, the main point for people.

Even if that content ties to your chosen background, species, class etc.

i.e. Imagine my preferred character, lets assume they're an Elf, with the Background of Noble and they're a Wizard (Bladesinger - which I really hope will be added).

I might get some specific dialogue, and also some specific quests related to the fact I'm a Noble, perhaps the NPCs in the quest if they're related to my house will change species depending on mine but keep the same voices to avoid too much additional work, i could live with that.

Similarly, the fact I'm an Elf might give me some more additional unique dialogues and reactions from NPCs

Finally, my class of Wizard might have some linked quests, whilst my subclass of bladesinger might have a sidequest involving defending some elves or perhaps recovering an elven artefact, again the class may have some unique dialogue.


An important note: Origin characters should get none of the above, they should have unique stuff as origin characters, but not use the generic "elf", "wizard", "noble" stuff (which is part of where D:OS2 goes slightly wrong I suppose)


basically though, either I want something like above. Or yeah a special thing that differentiates the custom character as special in their own way like the companions each seem to get (e.g. Gales funky eating magic items stuff or Asterions daywalker vampire stuff etc)

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To quote the post I made about what I'd want from a Baldur's Gate 3:

"The first two Baldur's Gate games centre around “Charname”, the games protagonist character. Charname is kind of a big deal. And because of this, as a player you always felt this was your adventure, your story.
Whilst I don't think it's possible, or even wise to try and continue the story of the Bhaalspawn. I'm still wanting Larian to provide a story with the same weight, the same personal feel that the first two games had. (Good luck with that!)"

I really think they need to let the player character and who they are be one of, if not the main driving force behind the story. I don't just want to be along for the ride, I want to -be- part the ride!

Sadly, the new companions make the player character seem insanely boring and bland. As much as I loved say Minsc or Edwin, I never felt that they were overshadowing my Charname, they complimented and enhanced.

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Exactly! Cause when Edwin was busy turning into a woman, or Nalia was busy fighting Orcs for her home and Jaheira uncovering a Harper plot, or whatever other plot for the companions was, I was there for all of it making decisions. All the while, somebody stole my Charname's soul essence and I was slowly transforming into a monster while trying to discover what Irenicus' ultimate goal was. It was all very riveting.

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