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Just throwing this out there:

How do y'all feel about being able to see the target for any given skill check? I think it's largely fine, but I can't help but think it's kind of unnecessary. As a D&D player and DM, I rarely am told, or tell others, what the DC for a skill check is. The result is evident from the situation that ensues.

I also think removing the target would result in less tendency to reload a save for a check. If, for example, you know the target for a skill check is a 5, and you rolled a 4, reloading a save to pass that check is probably something some players feel inclined to do. Removing the target could mean players embrace failure more (which is what I want for myself as well).

tldr:
No need to see the target for a skill check. Without it, failure is more valuable.

What do y'all think?

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I think it is fine, you are not given the DC until you commit to rolling it. Plus, I feel like without it there is no point in actually animating the dice roll - it can just be done under the hood and you either fail or pass.

Might also not be clear to non DnD players what actually happened, which may be misleading.

Furthermore, as a player I tend to get more hints from the DM on how hard the DC was. Either through the way they describe the outcome or just by knowing how they as a person play.

That is harder to tell when dealing with a video game.

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Originally Posted by Eugerome
Plus, I feel like without it there is no point in actually animating the dice roll - it can just be done under the hood and you either fail or pass.


Entirely disagree with this. That's what D&D is as a player: you roll the dice. The DC matters only to the DM.

As to the rest of your point: I guess? All of this can be solved by sharp writing. Which is something Larian is very good at. And something BG3 already has. So eh, my point stands. I don't need to know the DC. I can kinda infer that it's probably difficult to persuade a very articulate ogre to work for me. And if I fail with a roll of 15, I already know the DC is high. If I fail with a roll of 4, however, the DC can be low or high. And I think that would go a long way in helping players embrace their fate.

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Except there is no DM and this is a game.

You don't know DC until you commit then you can't back out. Not like you can see it before you commit.

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In most D&D games I've played and run, I don't know the DC ever. That is the point I'm making.

So I don't understand how not being able to see it until you commit matters at all to the point I'm making in my original post.

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Pathfinder kingmaker is the most recent game and you can see the DC before you even commit.

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I like the idea of being able to turn off the visibility of the target number in the options menu. Some DMs tell you, others don't. Cool idea!

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@ the "this is a game" guy.. so is DnD.

I am with OP. I don't want to see the DC. I also don't want to see my hit chances against npcs or their exact HP. It messes with my immersion.

Just a toggle or a seperate difficulty level/game mode would be great.

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DnD tabletop has an actual DM, this doesn't. I'm fine with a toggle. Not everyone wants everything hidden.

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Personally, I prefer not to know the DC in a tabletop game, but the relative difficulty can often be ascertained based on questioning the attitude of whoever you're talking to, which is more difficult to do in a video game.

If I were going to change one thing about how dialog checks work, I would remove the skill name from the dialog choices. I want to say the thing that makes the most sense for my character, not automatically lean on the skill that I'm strongest with.

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Originally Posted by Muldeh
@ the "this is a game" guy.. so is DnD.

I am with OP. I don't want to see the DC. I also don't want to see my hit chances against npcs or their exact HP. It messes with my immersion.

Just a toggle or a seperate difficulty level/game mode would be great.


Oh my god it would be so hard and most of all immersive! I want this "paper role-playing" game mode!

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No I like it, it feels satisfying to know when you succeed a difficult roll. The only reason to not show the dificulty would be for the purpose of removing the roll thing entierly, but I like to actually roll for stuff in dialogues. smile

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Agree with the OP.

At the table the players wont (or shouldnt) know what they need to roll either. They are just told if they passed or failed. Or if its a perception check a DM will tell them what they perceive and wont even mention succes or failure.

Last edited by Demoulius; 22/10/20 08:20 PM. Reason: fixed typo
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I'm against remove the DC wholesale. I personally want to see the DC on lock pick as well; but the option to turn it off should be implemented. The enjoyment i get from my style of play isn't the same as other peoples; I in no way think my way is the right way it just simply how i get enjoyment. so i rather there be options when reasonable and this seems like something that can be made into a simple toggle based on preference.

Last edited by Popsculpture; 22/10/20 09:12 PM.
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Originally Posted by Soulbasaur
Just throwing this out there:

tldr:
No need to see the target for a skill check. Without it, failure is more valuable.

What do y'all think?


I think the idea of showing a skill check to overcome and seeing the dice roll was a really cute design decision.
I enjoy the brief graphic and the feeling of passing a check you might otherwise fail.

Yet judging by the reaction of other people, e.g. "It's not accurate, I don't like how it's presented! It should have more dice! etc etc",
I'm starting to think it was a mistake to include it at all.


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I think you're idea is great for when the game gets closer to release. Right now though, I think it's especially important that we as player's that are testing the game and giving feedback, get to see as much of what's happening behind the scenes. That way if something is wrong, we can give better feedback.

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I think not only should you not see the DC, you should not even be aware that you rolled. Out of dialogue rolls should be fully invisible, in dialogue rolls should not be marked with persuasion or race or class tags. It should all simply be natural and flowing and whether you got a good or bad outcome or whether you picked an option with only one outcome, it should all be hidden. This would add to the mystery and immersion of the experience, as those bits of information - whether its a roll, what skill or tag its using - they modify your likeliness take an option. How could one see a rare multi-tag combo option and not feel compelled to take it?
This complete roll blindness should be an option you can turn on at the start of the game.

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Nah, this should be a toggle. Even the char sheet should be a toggle for ppl like you so you can't see any info about your char. That's the level of "immersion" you should go for. It serves various purposes.

Last edited by JDCrenton; 23/10/20 05:50 AM.
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Yeah ...
Its not like i "need" to see dificiulty ... but it have its own magic to choose some dialogue option, purely based on what i think my character do best, or what suits him best (for example now i play Fighter, with litteraly no social skills ... charisma, wisdom, inteligence, all 8 ... failing in every second roll) ... and then see dificiulty 19 and think "oh fu*k" ... and then that wonderfull feel when the roll success? Priceless!
Never want to loose theese bits. :P

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 23/10/20 08:37 AM.

I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by Soulbasaur
Just throwing this out there:

How do y'all feel about being able to see the target for any given skill check? I think it's largely fine, but I can't help but think it's kind of unnecessary. As a D&D player and DM, I rarely am told, or tell others, what the DC for a skill check is. The result is evident from the situation that ensues.

I also think removing the target would result in less tendency to reload a save for a check. If, for example, you know the target for a skill check is a 5, and you rolled a 4, reloading a save to pass that check is probably something some players feel inclined to do. Removing the target could mean players embrace failure more (which is what I want for myself as well).

tldr:
No need to see the target for a skill check. Without it, failure is more valuable.

What do y'all think?

Totally agree. I would go even further. And hide the fact that you are going to use a skill for this dialog option. It's not like, at a real table you would say something in line of "I use persuasion skill to tell this".
Words themself should be enough for you to chose this option.
I'm shure not all will agree with me. May be make it an option in settings, or part of difficulty level.

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