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There is asian feature, at least on the male side, one of the 5 face is asian type.

I think the elves look perfect as they are. They are definitly very human like in D&D, with usually slender and more delicate feature, but not androgynous. Just look at drizz't cover to see what I mean . Looking at the Dnd art we had for decades, the elves we have in game definitly fit that.


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"reevaluate your life" 🙄

Some people have no chill.

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Originally Posted by Hachina
There is asian feature, at least on the male side, one of the 5 face is asian type.

I think the elves look perfect as they are. They are definitly very human like in D&D, with usually slender and more delicate feature, but not androgynous. Just look at drizz't cover to see what I mean . Looking at the Dnd art we had for decades, the elves we have in game definitly fit that.


[Linked Image]

I find this quite androgynous.

[edit] He is obviously a man, but at the same time, he has strong feminine characteristics. If he had a more delicate expression in this image it would be even easier to see them

Last edited by Anung un Rama; 14/10/20 12:11 AM.
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As long as they don't look like the Elves in D:OS2... *shudder*

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Well... Yeah. But at least in DOS2 they have personality.

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Originally Posted by Anung un Rama
Originally Posted by Hachina
There is asian feature, at least on the male side, one of the 5 face is asian type.

I think the elves look perfect as they are. They are definitly very human like in D&D, with usually slender and more delicate feature, but not androgynous. Just look at drizz't cover to see what I mean . Looking at the Dnd art we had for decades, the elves we have in game definitly fit that.


[Linked Image]

I find this quite androgynous.

[edit] He is obviously a man, but at the same time, he has strong feminine characteristics. If he had a more delicate expression in this image it would be even easier to see them




Yes, this illustration definitly has some very delicate feature. ; I think its because of the narrow chin and the shadow make its look even slender. Also the half lighting flatten his face, giving it a more lean and smooth look.

But you can look at Todd lockwood work, he has illustrated all the drizz't novel and Drizz't is manlier in his work. also the design for Wotc done by Brian Matyas recently is very manly. Sorry, I have trouble uploading pic on the forum.

Last edited by Hachina; 14/10/20 12:30 AM.

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I understand that you may not like that the elves have human facial features but the thing is that elves originate from Norse Mythology and that is how they were described or drawn. J R R Tollken Lord of the Rings takes his world's mythology from the Norse and he too depicted elves a human looking with pointy ears. Almost every fantasy world that I have encountered, from Lord of the Rings, Dragon Age, Skyrim, Zelda, ect. all pretty much look the same. Also, not every elf is the same race. You have High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves (Drow), Moon Elves, Sun Elves, ect. They each have different looks as far as skin color, the size of ears and hairstyles BUT their facial features are pretty much the same. Yes, some of the males may look androgynyous but the thing this that in fantasy lore, elves are meant to look beautiful regardless of gender. Elves are also rarely depicted as super buff and masculine, they are for most part shown as having a fit lean figure, even if they are a warrior. Although most Elves are usually rogues or mages.

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Originally Posted by Hachina
Originally Posted by Anung un Rama
Originally Posted by Hachina
There is asian feature, at least on the male side, one of the 5 face is asian type.

I think the elves look perfect as they are. They are definitly very human like in D&D, with usually slender and more delicate feature, but not androgynous. Just look at drizz't cover to see what I mean . Looking at the Dnd art we had for decades, the elves we have in game definitly fit that.


[Linked Image]

I find this quite androgynous.

[edit] He is obviously a man, but at the same time, he has strong feminine characteristics. If he had a more delicate expression in this image it would be even easier to see them




Yes, this illustration definitly has some very delicate feature. ; I think its because of the narrow chin and the shadow make its look even slender. Also the half lighting flatten his face, giving it a more lean and smooth look.

But you can look at Todd lockwood work, he has illustrated all the drizz't novel and Drizz't is manlier in his work. also the design for Wotc done by Brian Matyas recently is very manly. Sorry, I have trouble uploading pic on the forum.


The drizzt designed by Todd Lockwood is basically what I think a drow should be. In his drawings, he perfectly captured the style used in 3rd edition books. And even though it's another artist's version i can still see the female characteristics, but that doesn't mean that he looks like a female, since he is clearly a male, it just means that he has the delicate features of the elves. In my opinion, you are confusing the character's strong and serious expressions with masculine traits.

As for Brian Matyas, I really didn't like the style he chose for Drizzt for the same reason as i said before, he looks too human.


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Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
I understand that you may not like that the elves have human facial features but the thing is that elves originate from Norse Mythology and that is how they were described or drawn. J R R Tollken Lord of the Rings takes his world's mythology from the Norse and he too depicted elves a human looking with pointy ears. Almost every fantasy world that I have encountered, from Lord of the Rings, Dragon Age, Skyrim, Zelda, ect. all pretty much look the same. Also, not every elf is the same race. You have High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves (Drow), Moon Elves, Sun Elves, ect. They each have different looks as far as skin color, the size of ears and hairstyles BUT their facial features are pretty much the same. Yes, some of the males may look androgynyous but the thing this that in fantasy lore, elves are meant to look beautiful regardless of gender. Elves are also rarely depicted as super buff and masculine, they are for most part shown as having a fit lean figure, even if they are a warrior. Although most Elves are usually rogues or mages.



I don't think that this other works of fantasy or the norse mythology matter in this subject since we already know how the elves from Forgotten Realms should look like, and it's certainly not how they're being portrayed in game.



Last edited by Anung un Rama; 14/10/20 01:33 AM.
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Originally Posted by Anung un Rama
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
I understand that you may not like that the elves have human facial features but the thing is that elves originate from Norse Mythology and that is how they were described or drawn. J R R Tollken Lord of the Rings takes his world's mythology from the Norse and he too depicted elves a human looking with pointy ears. Almost every fantasy world that I have encountered, from Lord of the Rings, Dragon Age, Skyrim, Zelda, ect. all pretty much look the same. Also, not every elf is the same race. You have High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves (Drow), Moon Elves, Sun Elves, ect. They each have different looks as far as skin color, the size of ears and hairstyles BUT their facial features are pretty much the same. Yes, some of the males may look androgynyous but the thing this that in fantasy lore, elves are meant to look beautiful regardless of gender. Elves are also rarely depicted as super buff and masculine, they are for most part shown as having a fit lean figure, even if they are a warrior. Although most Elves are usually rogues or mages.



I don't think that this other works of fantasy or the norse mythology matter in this subject since we already know how the elves from Forgotten Realms should look like, and it's certainly not how they're being portrayed in game.





If you look at the elves from Neverwinter Nights from BioWare and the mmorpg Neverwinter from Cryptic Studios which is also from the same universe as The Forgotten Realms but I believe in a different land, they also look the same. They don't look different. It's also produced by WOTC (Wizards of the Coast) who owns the D&D franchise, the elves all have "human" features and different subraces like I mentioned before. So, in Larian's defense, they are depicting the elves the correct way, per WOTC D&D. Also, keep in mind that this is only the 1st act of the game, we still don't know if other elves might look different but again all of this has to be approved by WOTC or they wouldn't have licensed Baldur's Gate to Larian.

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Originally Posted by Takamori
Originally Posted by Goldberry
Originally Posted by Takamori
Well the character creator is missing a lot of features I believe?
From gameplay pov not being able to choose your starter equipment and neither the variant rules.
And Aesthetics of missing faces.

As for the OP itself, me being an Asian fella, whats the issue of allowing me to do a character from other races that I could relate with? Faerun already have Kozakura that is basically Japan in Faerun. So having other races with other cultural takes is not far streching it. I understand the cultural root of the Folk being European, but thing change or it would be a constant copy pasta of Tolkien, changes like this for example allow you to be a European heavily armored knight to fight Onis and other Folk creatures that with a ultra conservative(in the sense of no changes not the political spectrum) wouldn't allow to.


This is not a matter of diversity and inclusion really, at least not to me, and I am of mixed heritage, I do not look caucasic. To me it is about building an immersive world that makes sense, and if you are going to have races that are not human, they should be represented in... Well. A non human way. Otherwise what is the point of them. They are not supposed to look caucasic, black, indian, asian, or anything other than their own.

Every time you take a fantasy race, and you strip it from the things that make it unique and different, and humanize it, well... The world is less rich, and less interesting.


Well they have human like features like you can recognize the basic facial structure, jawline, eyes with iris, teeth, face ratio and so on. From what I'm getting from the topic is that elves are not Androgynous enough? The only thing make humans different from elves is the ears, therefore the good old elf cursing "God damn knife ears"



Bringing a quote from dragon age to discuss forgotten realms elves makes your entire arguement fall apart. elves in FR and elves in DA are VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERY differant

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[img]https://www.amazon.com/Evermeet-Island-Elves-Forgotten-Realms/dp/0786913541[/img]

The image in the link is from a Dungeons and Dragon novel about the elves and you will see in the image the elf has human facial features with the only difference being that he has pointy ears. If you look at Baldur's Gate and compare it to the Forgotten Realms novel. They look pretty much the same in regards to facial features.

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Originally Posted by Anung un Rama
Originally Posted by Hachina
Originally Posted by Anung un Rama
Originally Posted by Hachina
There is asian feature, at least on the male side, one of the 5 face is asian type.

I think the elves look perfect as they are. They are definitly very human like in D&D, with usually slender and more delicate feature, but not androgynous. Just look at drizz't cover to see what I mean . Looking at the Dnd art we had for decades, the elves we have in game definitly fit that.


[Linked Image]

I find this quite androgynous.

[edit] He is obviously a man, but at the same time, he has strong feminine characteristics. If he had a more delicate expression in this image it would be even easier to see them




Yes, this illustration definitly has some very delicate feature. ; I think its because of the narrow chin and the shadow make its look even slender. Also the half lighting flatten his face, giving it a more lean and smooth look.

But you can look at Todd lockwood work, he has illustrated all the drizz't novel and Drizz't is manlier in his work. also the design for Wotc done by Brian Matyas recently is very manly. Sorry, I have trouble uploading pic on the forum.


The drizzt designed by Todd Lockwood is basically what I think a drow should be. In his drawings, he perfectly captured the style used in 3rd edition books. And even though it's another artist's version i can still see the female characteristics, but that doesn't mean that he looks like a female, since he is clearly a male, it just means that he has the delicate features of the elves. In my opinion, you are confusing the character's strong and serious expressions with masculine traits.

As for Brian Matyas, I really didn't like the style he chose for Drizzt for the same reason as i said before, he looks too human.



Making Drizz't more feminine doesn't make him any less human , though.

Anyways, he does has very masculine trait as well , such as big jaw, receding forehead and proeminent forehead, chiseled feature. But the slender chin and hollowed cheeks give him this slender look.

Last edited by Hachina; 14/10/20 02:55 AM.

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Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
[img]https://www.amazon.com/Evermeet-Island-Elves-Forgotten-Realms/dp/0786913541[/img]

The image in the link is from a Dungeons and Dragon novel about the elves and you will see in the image the elf has human facial features with the only difference being that he has pointy ears. If you look at Baldur's Gate and compare it to the Forgotten Realms novel. They look pretty much the same in regards to facial features.


You can show me all the derivatives of D&D it makes no difference to me, because what matters is the original material. All these games and the cover of the novel you mentioned are the result of artists who don't know the lore and WOTC don't caring to make sure it's correct, since what really matters is that they have pointy ears right?...🙄 Look, you may like the elves the way they are now, but I want them to be more than slightly different humans.

Last edited by Anung un Rama; 14/10/20 03:23 AM.
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Responding Hachina:

[/quote]Making Drizz't more feminine doesn't make him any less human , though.

Anyways, he does has very masculine trait as well , such as big jaw, receding forehead and proeminent forehead, chiseled feature. But the slender chin and hollowed cheeks give him this slender look.[/quote]




- This is exactly what makes them more androgynous. They have feminine and masculine characteristics.

- You are right. Making elfs more androgynous doesn't make them more human, but this is just a detail that is missing.

Last edited by Anung un Rama; 14/10/20 03:47 AM.
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Then your problem is with WOTC and not Larian. WOTC still has the final say when it comes to anything that deals with Dungeons and Dragons as they are the one expanding the DnD universe. The elves are going to look the way they want them to look, which to me, they still look like elves. How else do you want them to look, if not human like? Do you want them to look more like WOW or Elder Scrolls? At the end of the day it's their franchise and we can either accept it and play or choose to walk away from it.

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Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Then your problem is with WOTC and not Larian. WOTC still has the final say when it comes to anything that deals with Dungeons and Dragons as they are the one expanding the DnD universe. The elves are going to look the way they want them to look, which to me, they still look like elves. How else do you want them to look, if not human like? Do you want them to look more like WOW or Elder Scrolls? At the end of the day it's their franchise and we can either accept it and play or choose to walk away from it.


- How else do you want them to look, if not human like?

Like elves of the Forgotten Realms universe.

- Do you want them to look more like WOW or Elder Scrolls?

Nop.

[img]http://https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTbhPwUAlG--SG8hg-yIqUuiI_tn2Fq1-0bow&usqp=CAU[/img]

As i said before i want then to look like the elves of the FR universe.

[img]http://https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTQZsugp6h6cTa-IMpvf4_uIvKuGQ25Mzjd0w&usqp=CAU[/img]

[img]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcThGxSfot_xRsJ0cMsJqA1GncCI9wIbHvEzkA&usqp=CAU[/img]

[img]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT4LFekBCWSpArzA8SRc9oATrzbXmLn9U6mBQ&usqp=CAU[/img]



You understand now?


Last edited by Anung un Rama; 14/10/20 04:17 AM.
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Originally Posted by Anung un Rama
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Then your problem is with WOTC and not Larian. WOTC still has the final say when it comes to anything that deals with Dungeons and Dragons as they are the one expanding the DnD universe. The elves are going to look the way they want them to look, which to me, they still look like elves. How else do you want them to look, if not human like? Do you want them to look more like WOW or Elder Scrolls? At the end of the day it's their franchise and we can either accept it and play or choose to walk away from it.


- How else do you want them to look, if not human like?

Like elves of the Forgotten Realms universe.

- Do you want them to look more like WOW or Elder Scrolls?

Nop.

[img]http://https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTbhPwUAlG--SG8hg-yIqUuiI_tn2Fq1-0bow&usqp=CAU[/img]

As i said before i want then to look like the elves of the FR universe.

[img]http://https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTQZsugp6h6cTa-IMpvf4_uIvKuGQ25Mzjd0w&usqp=CAU[/img]

[img]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcThGxSfot_xRsJ0cMsJqA1GncCI9wIbHvEzkA&usqp=CAU[/img]

[img]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT4LFekBCWSpArzA8SRc9oATrzbXmLn9U6mBQ&usqp=CAU[/img]



You understand now?



What you showed me in the images above is pretty much what I have been telling you. They still have human facial features. I don't understand what your problem is then if you find those images acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
What you showed me in the images above is pretty much what I have been telling you. They still have human facial features. I don't understand what your problem is then if you find those images acceptable.


That none of the current heads look like the elves are descripted in official source books and artwork. Again, I will post this:

[Linked Image]

All of the current heads are closer to the human sketch than the full blood elf sketch. Asking for the devs to completely revamp the elves might be too much asking, but I am sure it is not all that much to ask for at least a few heads that look more traditional for people who enjoy elves as they are depicted in the manuals. That way, everyone can be happy, and it's a win-win smile

Even in the old baldur's gate portraits, while some portraits were a little off, others were still very accurate to the sketch. Per instance, both Aerie and Jaheira very closely resemble the elven sketch, with the triangular shaped head and slanted eyes.

[Linked Image]



Last edited by Goldberry; 14/10/20 04:35 AM.
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Originally Posted by Goldberry
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
What you showed me in the images above is pretty much what I have been telling you. They still have human facial features. I don't understand what your problem is then if you find those images acceptable.


That none of the current heads look like the elves are descripted in official source books and artwork. Again, I will post this:

[Linked Image]

All of the current heads are closer to the human sketch than the full blood elf sketch. Asking for the devs to completely revamp the elves might be too much asking, but I am sure it is not all that much to ask for at least a few heads that look more traditional for people who enjoy elves as they are depicted in the manuals. That way, everyone can be happy, and it's a win-win smile




I have seen this image before but like I mentioned, if you look closely, those elves are still human-like. The difference are the pointy ears, slight eye shape and size, and their face is a bit more angular but at the end of the day, they are still human-like. The OP mention they didn't like that the elves look human with pointy ears. Shadowheart is a half elf so it makes sense for her to look more human. Astarion is a full elf but he's a vampire, maybe they could of made him look more different but the problem is that he a romanceable companion and so they also want to make him look appealing.

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