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No, no, hear me out. smile

I don't think it's terrible that the basic damaging cantrips are amped up a little bit. In 5E, spellcasters should feel useful even if their big spells are expended. But healing is a problem. I assume that the situation where you can just constantly eat cheese and pig's heads during combat will eventually be toned down. But lack of healing leads towards the '5 minute adventuring day' problem we're seeing, and I think a reasonable adaptation from 5E's very-stingy-with-healing-by-default model is to make a low-level healing spell accessible at all times. Out of combat, it's no different from healing up from eating a smorgasbord of fruit (except feels a little less silly). And in combat, it still takes a bonus action and isn't as good as a higher-level healing potion, so some balance is retained.

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[Linked Image]

In all seriousness though it will never happen. It would make food, potions and spells that heal you out of combat completely useless.


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That would make Short Rests useless for most classes, and remove the Prayer of Healing spell, and when Short Rests are useless, players will take fewer long rests.

The ripple effect would have many other unforseen balance consequences.

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Originally Posted by Druid_NPC
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In all seriousness though it will never happen. It would make food, potions and spells that heal you out of combat completely useless.


food yes, but food doesn't need to be an option. Healing spells are severely limited by amount of spell slots you have, healing potions are again limited, and some fights you blow through them like hookers do weekend clients. Then there's gold which can buy you potions/scrolls yet can't buy you spell slots, so sure you can stock up on potions and such yet gold is again a limited resource.

What isn't strictly fixed is damage in combat it is constantly shifting raising, falling on the whim of the dice. Some fights that should be 'easy' don't go your way for what ever reason. A 4 v 4 fight that you should blow through becomes a slog. You've only 8 potions, your cleric has 4 heals. Yet those gobbos are battering your fighter, doing 16 damage a turn, your cleric heals on average 5, as does your healing potion. So now your out an action on your side, and a bonus action on your side. If the fight goes the same way your cleric is out of heals in 3 more turns, forcing a long rest after the fight that again should of been easy. Your fighter is now stealing health potions from your other characters for another 4 rounds after your cleric is out of spells. Once the fight is done you've probably had to rez your fighter, now you have to go to town buy more healing potions, and take a long rest to get your cleric back into their role of healer. If the next fight is a hard one, and since there is more fighting in video games then many campaigns, your going to be light on resources, from an easy fight, and are now facing a difficult one with very limited options to restock your healing potions. Since those are mostly set by the loot tables and can't be adjusted by the DM on the fly.

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If they didn't mess with 5e and incorporate their own version of DoS/D&D into this game, you wouldn't need to add food that heals, change healing spells, have healing potions and revivify scrolls falling from the sky, change short rests per long rest, etc. But when a 1st level caster can now cast a fire bolt cantrip that does more damage in one cast than an eldritch blast cantrip, with an agonizing blast invocation (which requires a level 2 character) that also has a 1st level hex spell on them, then maybe you'll end up with damage and healing issues.

Last edited by ReaLMoisan; 13/10/20 05:35 PM.
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No no no.

Increase short rests. I hate the OP cheese of buffed cantrips with surfaces and food healing, OP jumping and shoving...list goes on. No more buffing anything but back to 5e rather.

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In combat having a 1d4 healing cantrip as an action wouldn't be game breaking, and as bonus action would be the best cantrip in the game. But the real problem is outside of combat. If you just spam the cantrip to heal everyone then:

- Prayer of Healing becomes a useless spell.

- Goodberries becomes a useless spell

- Every food instantly becomes just junk to be sold.

- Every basic healing potion becomes just junk to be sold.

- Short rests lose a part of their value.

And probably a lot more I can't think of, just the sheer amount of gold you would make by having this cantrip would make it the best in the game by far.


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No

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Honestly, as it is, I think even raising fallen allies IN COMBAT with a simple "aid" action is too powerful an ability.

Provided that Larian fixed the AI who wants a dropped character DEAD AT ALL COST, I think they should remove the ability to raise an ally with "aid". I think it should either take a medicine check from a character what has mastery of the skill or a spell.


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Sorry on to finish my thought had to run to pick up friend and just spazzed on the reply button.

The thing we should consider is that in pnp per creater of 5e on his healing fountain spell (unsure what it's called atm) is that yes they know it's broken, yet in 5e they were looking at the party being fully healed when the encounter began. Another thing to look at is in my above post the ability for the DM to quickly stock a few healing potions in the campaign versus the video game where there is no gm to figure out if that fight went to shit to for the party, making them use up alot of their resources, more then what the encounter called for.

Then there is the pacing difference between pnp, and video games. With pnp you can call breaks as a DM refigure out the encounter, have the party chat as you do so, while your working behind the scene to figure out why a fight went wrong, then adjust the next one, and let the party heal up through short rests, or long rests. Again you can't do this in a video game, some people don't realize the need for these rests and taking them more often then they think they do. Though it can be abused in it's current form, well the long rests, short rests you get one per long rest. Also note the ones who wrote 5e expected you to be fully healed in an interview for each encounter.

Then there is pacing determined by the DM in pnp, in video games alot of times your simply walking from one fight then another, burning your resources as you go, resources that have a finite amount per what ever rng list Larian is using. Again in pnp the DM can add anything they want at any time, video games it's the luck of the draw. Will adding a cantrip for clerics to heal the party back to the full health that is expected by WoTC to be true before each encounter be OP. According to the author of 5e it is, but it's the way 5e was designed.

Aid being OP, using of a spell, or skill check. - You bring someone back from unconsciousness to a grand total of 1 hp at the cost of your action, and possible most of your movement. Next turn creature farts in the direction of the recently aided character he falls again. again another aid is used for the cost of a full round action, bringing fallen into a fart away from death again. How is that OP?? The fact that your using your action which means you are doing no damage, while your enemies are all doing damage. Then to top it off that character has to stand up, wasting much of it's movements to do so, probably will need to quaff one or even 2 health potions to survive another fart in his general direction. A thing that may or may not happen do to initiative order, or if he's standing in a puddle of acid, or what ever. Which with the way things are working the AI is going to target him on their next round, forcing again the loss of not one turn of damage but 2. The fallen character and the one who is doing the aid. Damage which may very well turn the fight in your favor, forcing you the player to decide if they need that damage, or can risk having to use a revive scroll to get them up after battle if they die.

Spells have a finite amount except for cantrips between rests. Again it's action economy, forcing you to make a choice, the less actions your using to damage an opponent, or hinder their ability to do damage the more possible damage being done to you by the very nature of the fact the battle is being prolonged. The longer a fight is prolonged the more likely you are of running out of spells you may find yourself needing, or health potions, revives etc. Forcing you yet again to take a long rest, or short one depending.


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Originally Posted by Druid_NPC

- Prayer of Healing becomes a useless spell.


True. Remove it.

Originally Posted by Druid_NPC

- Goodberries becomes a useless spell


Do we need it?

Originally Posted by Druid_NPC

- Every food instantly becomes just junk to be sold.


Food shouldn't be healing, Make it interesting or remove it from the game.

Originally Posted by Druid_NPC

- Every basic healing potion becomes just junk to be sold.


They heal more than a cantrip, and you may need more than that.

Originally Posted by Druid_NPC

- Short rests lose a part of their value.



Without hit-dice for healing, they're kind of broken anyway. But yes, if you have this cantrip a short rest should heal you up all the way.

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So, when your team is fighting a single enemy boss unit down the line, you could have one person tank it, fall, get healed by 1 point, fall, get healed by 1 point, and forever tank it while your team does nothing but hit it until it dies with zero challenge whatsoever?

No thanks.


Last edited by Noraver; 18/10/20 04:45 PM.
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No and you should feel bad for even thinking this

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Just a quick note. Food has alot more weight then healing potions, meaning your not going to be able to carry as much food as you would normally on other games. Futhermore you'd not be carrying as much food as you would potions, or scrolls to heal. Some food items weigh 20 pounds or more, others weigh less. So food isn't a great choice to be packing around like their potions. Short rests are limited to one per long rest, those short rests give back abillities for several classes. Yet gives non of you clerics prayers/spells back. Goodberries are for druids who can albiet not as effectively serve the same/near the same function as a cleric. Unless your running double healer, most times you'd swap out druid and cleric for each other.

As for healing potions becoming junk. You have one healer even if they're tossing out a cantrip to do so. You have 4 party members, when they all get hurt, or when one drops to 0 your healer has to focus on them. Using their 2 heals to get him up safely, and most times it's not enough, and you've now left your other party members low on hp. So they on their turn use a healing potion, because to do so, and just falsely say healing potions are junk, would leave you with another party member taking a poorly timed nap.

Prayer of healing is far more effective to cast then any cantrip spam, then there is the chance with cantrip spam that a creature may waltz right up to you all, or spot you through a wall opening or other opening that you didn't notice. Which leads to a battle, and if you were trying to cantrip spam well one or two of your party may still be injured. Again you can only use that cantrip once per turn. So you have to think which one your going to use it on. Which one is the AI going to try to hit, can one take the damage and not fall. Does the other one use a healing potion?

just some food for thought

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Consider what a cantrip version would mean, when paired with the magic items currently in the game;
Hellrider's Gauntlets - add Blade Ward on top of any heal cast
Broodmother's - Poisons weapons whenever healed
Whispering Promise - adds bless on top of any heal cast

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Originally Posted by Druid_NPC
In combat having a 1d4 healing cantrip as an action wouldn't be game breaking, and as bonus action would be the best cantrip in the game. But the real problem is outside of combat. If you just spam the cantrip to heal everyone then:

- Prayer of Healing becomes a useless spell.

- Goodberries becomes a useless spell

- Every food instantly becomes just junk to be sold.

- Every basic healing potion becomes just junk to be sold.

- Short rests lose a part of their value.

And probably a lot more I can't think of, just the sheer amount of gold you would make by having this cantrip would make it the best in the game by far.



Just got me thinking...

Second wind can only be used during combat.

So if it was something low level like 1d4, but used a full action(can be used in combat only), and was a cantrip you could choose as a cleric at level 2... ?


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Please just don't deviate further the rules of D&D. This would create more balancing issues.
Stick to the rules please, new things and improvement are cool but only if the material does not work in a video games or is useless (i.e natural explorer, favored ennemy, awakened mind,...).

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