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aledoro Offline OP
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As of right now, iv completely moved away from any DC spell, as i find the hit chances are FAR lower than the melee/ranged attacks because of how easy it is to have advantage on these attacks, while the only way to improve hit chance on a DC spell is to lower enemy saving throw with bane (which is itself a DC spell) so that's really not worth the efforts

I think there are a few ways to look at this issue

1) when you have advantage over your target, causes them to have disadvantage on saving throws

2) make it harder to have advantage on melee/ranged attacks all the time

3) generally make DCs higher, like everything gets +2 or something

4) add in more ways to cause enemies to have disadvantage on saving throw, and via means that do not requier saving throw themselves

I know there is a pair of gloves that allow you to apply bane on enemies you attack but i don't believe it's addressing the main issue with DCs/saving throw as a general imbalance compared to ranged/melee attacks

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My tabletop experience is actually the same. It's very often that spells don't connect. But it's also quite frequent that attacks miss. However due to the overabundance of advantage weapon attacks has a big leg up. I'd say the preferred solution is to dial down on the plethora of available advantages, and rethink exactly what level and gear they build their encounters with.

Larian has made all enemies you meet of similar level. They're all level 4 in an area. I would never design it that way, I'd have maybe a level 4 boss that has some beefy AC and saves, accompanied by some level 1-2 grunts which can be more easily handled with AoE spells. Unless Larian changes their approach to encounter design and varies the level of enemies more within the same encounter, I fear that both damage and control spells will be pretty lackluster.

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Oh, this is the same pain I feel on the table top. DC spells in general suck, unless they are leveled damage spells that does damage regardless of a saved spell or not.
Things like Sacred Flame is a horrible cantrip due to the low hit chance.

Changing this though requires changing the DnD rules, which I think is beyond what Larian is willing to do.

DCs are based on your stat level, but also the opponents stat level, so you can never really know if the enemy will be good or bad at it. Goblins have high Dex, and therefore Sacred Flame will not work well against them (Which is another reason I hate the spell, because at lower levels in 5e, chances are Goblins and Kobolds will be your main opponents...)

Originally Posted by Slapstick
My tabletop experience is actually the same. It's very often that spells don't connect. But it's also quite frequent that attacks miss. However due to the overabundance of advantage weapon attacks has a big leg up. I'd say the preferred solution is to dial down on the plethora of available advantages, and rethink exactly what level and gear they build their encounters with.

Larian has made all enemies you meet of similar level. They're all level 4 in an area. I would never design it that way, I'd have maybe a level 4 boss that has some beefy AC and saves, accompanied by some level 1-2 grunts which can be more easily handled with AoE spells. Unless Larian changes their approach to encounter design and varies the level of enemies more within the same encounter, I fear that both damage and control spells will be pretty lackluster.


BG3 "levels" and DnD5e challenge Ratings differ though. I would agree that having mooks + biggun is the way to go, and that mooks should have some lower stats.

I agree though that this is really the only place Larian can really fix DC spells... but as I said, DC spells is sort of lack luster in 5e too...

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Considering how absurdly powerful spells become at spell level 3 and above, giving willy nilly disadvantage against spells will be game breaking.
Imagine being able to guarantee that power word kill hits just because you have the high ground, good bye any sort of challenge.

You can still impose disadvantage against saving throws, within the mechanics as is, most notably would be Hex.

Last edited by Mxiio; 14/10/20 12:14 PM.
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Originally Posted by Mxiio


You can still impose disadvantage against saving throws, within the mechanics as is, most notably would be Hex.


Hex doesn't (or at least shouldn't) impose disadvantage on saving throws. It imposes disadvantage on ability checks (i.e. skill checks and straight ability checks but not saving throws which are separate).
The disadvantage factor is intended to give some out of combat utility and it's in combat use is fairly limited (grapple checks, checks imposed by some types of terrain, some small number of spells include an ability check rather than save (Control Water, Detect Thoughts, Phantasmal Force and Telekinesis for example)).

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aledoro Offline OP
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i wouldnt mind hex lowering enemy saving throws, having to select a specific attribute every time we press it for close to no effect on that matter feels a little dull right now

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Maybe afterwards enemies will have a higher armor class and proportionally lower characteristics ?
Or perhaps create bigger "gaps" in the characteristics of some enemies, creating weaknesses in certain spells?

Last edited by Tylm; 14/10/20 03:27 PM.
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Advantage and disadvantage are already quite prominent in combat. Adding in more sources of them would further the Advantage arms race. Frankly, the more I play, the less I think I like the high ground advantage thing.

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Cleric: *sees Ray of Frost and Fire Bolt*
Cleric: Mom, can I get cantrips?
Mom: We have cantrips at home.
Cantrips at home: SACRED FLAME

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old hand
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Items that boost spell DC like a Wizards staff would be cool.

Or a specialist focus item that boost DC for a single spell school.

Don't know if such exist in 5e but would be cool and flavorful.


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