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Originally Posted by Hachina
Oh please, don't be such a sissy. Astarion is an evil character, he doesn't care about you or mutual consent. Just deal with it, its a fantasy game.
I've also noticed that there are several characters who try to kill or enslave my character completely without my consent.

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Originally Posted by qiqi
I agree with you, OP. Not only is it squicky, the encounter is a bit nonsensical. If you accept but don't pass the persuasion checks he ends up killing your character, so if your character didn't wake up to find him creeping in the first place, was his original plan just to feed on one of his allies, at the risk of killing, right in the middle of camp? Though, it's not like anyone jumped to the defense when you spotted him anyway... sleepin on the job :P

Something else I recall when you catch him is that he says something about having to do it this way because he needed your trust? Which doesn't make any sense. I also think it's a good idea if the scene were changed to be the character seeing Astarion sneaking out of camp again (which the camera shows for the boar encounter) and they find him snacking on animals.


I think he meant to take as much as necessary, but lost control because he was starving.

I thought that the trust thing was strange too. Maybe he meant that he wanted us to get to know him before telling his secret. He didn't mean to get caught, which suggests that if he has enough self control it can go unnoticed.


Last edited by Ashley1Black; 14/10/20 05:27 PM.
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Originally Posted by gabbyquail
Cw: sexual assault

I get what the story is going for with the Astarion camp encounter. I’d just ask you to consider that for some of your players, a companion climbing onto the PC’s body in the middle of the night is violently unpleasant. The dialogue he has afterward is similarly squicky, as he follows up his nonconsensual attempt with minimization and manipulation. Vampires are generally treading in some pretty rapey territory already—but the game is asking me to bring one along for the campaign, and to seriously entertain becoming his bloodbag afterward. I’ve never booted a character from my party in a Bioware-style game before, but I would gladly have killed him on the spot. Knowing that I have to play through this scene again definitely affects my willingness to replay the game.

I’m not even clear on what his plan was—do people usually sleep through someone cutting their neck open?

For people without a similar history, think of it as violence. Anyone trying to remove blood from my body whilst I sleep is going to A) catch these hands and B) be killed or tossed out of the party immediately. It’s difficult for me to imagine many D&D parties where this wouldn’t be true.

This feels like a simple fix, as his vampirism could be introduced through dialogue, through his physical collapse due to blood deprivation, through him draining an animal in the bushes, etc.



History = you eluded to it, my advice is to seek help, therapy works and can aid you in recovery. There are many ways to do so a google search will reveal more.

This game is rated M for a reason, it also states what those reasons are. Noone forced you to buy this game, or replay it, devs even state that you don't have to buy it for whatever reason. If you like it then by all means play it. Noone is taking a choice from you, it's on you. There are other options that you can take in replaying, and also on this play through to make Ast a nonissue, killing him is the most obvious for it completely removes him from the game.

Did you kill him there is that option? If your character felt violated then by all means kill him, noone is stopping you. Your choice. Your other companions would probably applaud you, hell most of Faerun would applaud you. There is a reason why this game is rated M for mature, it is a warning and lists what it's warning you about. Again your choice to buy it.

replayability - If Astorian is a problem for you again don't take him, kill him. They ask but don't force you to bring him along. He is there for those that want him, if you kill him you don't have to deal with him again. Again you have the choice, it is your choice, he is but an option.

Manipulation to get what you want - evil so your problem is that he is evil. Then kill him, or kick him.

Nonconsensual taking of blood - again he's a vampire who are often hunted down and killed because of the fact they are vampires. So don't think he's going to be asking nicely, or that any vampire does. Unless they're sparkly and can stand under sunlight.

Cutting open - They don't cut you open, it's like two needles being stabbed into your skin, then it feels good, it's enjoyable, some even become addicted to it. So no cutting open of the skin.

Draining of animals in the bushes etc. - he does. So it is also revealed that way. Yet he is starving, and getting desperate, add to this tadpole situation so he is not thinking clearly from both his own trauma and starvation.

Vampires = are by nature very rapey, not closeish but very. They are also sluts/addicts/ and several other terms I've called them over the years. They will do anything for food, and that food is what courses through most creatures bodies.

Simple fix = In order for him to be a non vampire they would have to completely rewrite hundreds of hours of code, dailogue, character moments. In that one scene there is again hours, upon hours of work put into it. It is not simple, or a quick fix. Most things in games unless the involve a . or # being put in the wrong place is not a simple fix. Indeed finding that eronous . which may be in a line like this

.00000000001 that first . may be instead in this spot 00000000.0001 or this spot 0.0000001 or it may be in <post> r=2 3-d render item *4 Ast scene 3/5 and that line goes on for sixty more characters, buried in hundreds of more code. and then they have to trace it all down, delete it, find where it's linked to other code delete it from there to make sure it's all gone. Note above from <post> to 3/5 is not actual code. but to many code looks like gibberish anyways.

Last edited by clavis; 14/10/20 05:33 PM.
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Hi LizNuzz! Nah doesn’t feel like downplaying at all.

Knowing that he’s a vamp beforehand would just make me want a scene where he tries to negotiate his way into the arrangement, because that would be fun, and this way was weird and (as others have pointed out) kinda nonsensical. I think it should be a better scene cuz I actually liked his shtick a lot.

It’s DEF odd to me to hear so many people saying there’s nothing sexual about vampires! It’s a clear theme in Dracula and the Slavic lore it comes from. And to be clear I love vampires and vampire stories. I don’t think this scene was clear in its intentions or execution.

No, knowing that it’s painless doesn’t change anything. Numbing someone out before you do stuff to them in their sleep is uh...still creepy to me. He could be using knockout drugs and syringes and it would still be gross imo.

And like. You change three seconds of dialogue and problem solved. I haven’t seen anything in the above objections that would be significantly changed if he directly confronted the PC or was caught chupacabra’ing a cow.


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Originally Posted by gabbyquail
Hi LizNuzz! Nah doesn’t feel like downplaying at all.

And like. You change three seconds of dialogue and problem solved. I haven’t seen anything in the above objections that would be significantly changed if he directly confronted the PC or was caught chupacabra’ing a cow.



It would be significantly changed, it would make it easy to be dismissive of the fact that the character is a vampire. He's not a tame pet, he's dangerous, creepy and one should be extremely wary of him no matter his words. This is made clear immediatly in a scene like that.

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Homie I smacked him off my neck and he ran out of the camp whining about how unfair it was 😂

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Originally Posted by gabbyquail
Cw: sexual assault

I get what the story is going for with the Astarion camp encounter. I’d just ask you to consider that for some of your players, a companion climbing onto the PC’s body in the middle of the night is violently unpleasant. The dialogue he has afterward is similarly squicky, as he follows up his nonconsensual attempt with minimization and manipulation. Vampires are generally treading in some pretty rapey territory already—but the game is asking me to bring one along for the campaign, and to seriously entertain becoming his bloodbag afterward. I’ve never booted a character from my party in a Bioware-style game before, but I would gladly have killed him on the spot. Knowing that I have to play through this scene again definitely affects my willingness to replay the game.

I’m not even clear on what his plan was—do people usually sleep through someone cutting their neck open?

For people without a similar history, think of it as violence. Anyone trying to remove blood from my body whilst I sleep is going to A) catch these hands and B) be killed or tossed out of the party immediately. It’s difficult for me to imagine many D&D parties where this wouldn’t be true.

This feels like a simple fix, as his vampirism could be introduced through dialogue, through his physical collapse due to blood deprivation, through him draining an animal in the bushes, etc.


No offense but I feel like you're reaching here. Astarion is a vampire. Drinking people's blood is what vampires do. Is it messed up that he was trying to do that while you were sleeping? Yes, but that's the traditional way vampires have always been depicted. As for Astarion, he does apologize and does tell you if you let him drink your blood that in the future he will ask for permission or only feed from animals as he has already been doing. The reason why he wanted to drink your blood is because he was feeling weak but if you let him drink your blood and tell him when to stop so he doesn't kill you, he gets a new power which is pretty useful in battle.

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Originally Posted by TrollishMcTroll
He's a f.cking vampire. That's what vampires do. He's actually pretty damned restrained for a vampire.


+1

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How is describing my reaction to a scene reaching? It’s my experience. Providing feedback is what playtesters do.

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Originally Posted by Labayu
Originally Posted by Hachina
Oh please, don't be such a sissy. Astarion is an evil character, he doesn't care about you or mutual consent. Just deal with it, its a fantasy game.
I've also noticed that there are several characters who try to kill or enslave my character completely without my consent.

Ah, that's fresh I though these gobelin were merely playing with me. Sadly I have the habit of overdoing it when I play with knifes.


Originally Posted by gabbyquail
How is describing my reaction to a scene reaching? It’s my experience. Providing feedback is what playtesters do.


You're mixing real life stuff with fantasy stuff and basically trying to censor a part of the game that is already very soft. How about we remove gobelin from the game? I I mean, as Labayu stated, they are actually trying to kill you without your consent. That way worse than drinking a sip of blood.


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Nope! I believe this is a reaction that others will have, and that it’s not one that was intended by the writers. It’s a piece of editorial feedback, not censorship—I, an individual player, do not have the power to censor anyone.

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Originally Posted by gabbyquail
How is describing my reaction to a scene reaching? It’s my experience. Providing feedback is what playtesters do.


We should all give feedback but when it comes to what you are describing, you are accusing a fictional character of "sexual assault." He was trying to drink your fictional character's blood because he's a vampire. As someone who has experienced real life assault. This is ridiculous because it's not the same thing. I personally didn't see it as "sexual assault" but a Vampire trying to suck my character's blood which you can stop by the way. This game is very, very MA. If you are sensitive to extremely mature content, this might not be the game for you. As Larian has stated that there will be a lot of sexual content by the time of full release.

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I think it’s totally legit for different survivors to have different reactions to things! Your enjoyment of the scene, and game, are valid.

To be clear, I am an adult human who understands the difference between fictional vampire bites and real-life sexual assault. Where in this post did you think I was stating otherwise?

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This is turning into straight up trolling. And I should know. grin

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Originally Posted by gabbyquail
I think it’s totally legit for different survivors to have different reactions to things! Your enjoyment of the scene, and game, are valid.

To be clear, I am an adult human who understands the difference between fictional vampire bites and real-life sexual assault. Where in this post did you think I was stating otherwise?


Because you got offended by a vampire trying to drink someone's blood which is normal in vampire fantasy settings. It's part of the game. If this is a problem then don't recruit Astarion or play a different game in case Larian adds other scenes that might be offensive to you.

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Originally Posted by gabbyquail
How is describing my reaction to a scene reaching? It’s my experience. Providing feedback is what playtesters do.


The game allows you to kill him for his transgression.
The game is also rated mature and I don't understand why you want to censor this component of the game.

The game also includes, cannibalism, slavery and child murder...
None of them are very nice things and as the player you could do something about it.

So why are you unsatisfied?

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I think we can agree that for different people different things might act as a trigger. Some things can bother one person but not the other. There is no need to lash at each other because of contradicting opinions. Both ways of thinking are valid and we do not have to agree on the matter. This is supposed to be a civilized discussion.

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Originally Posted by Ashley1Black
I think we can agree that for different people different things might act as a trigger. Some things can bother one person but not the other. There is no need to lash at each other because of contradicting opinions. Both ways of thinking are valid and we do not have to agree on the matter. This is supposed to be a civilized discussion.


To be honest after the initial post and the OP's responses since then I would say this person is just trolling.

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I think the OP makes a good point -- I would support some sort of warning and an option to remove Astarian from the game. I had no desire to have the vampire from SoD/BG2EE in my game, period, and there was a (very hard to find) way to ensure that character never showed up.

I haven't had the experiences that the OP has and so I react differently. I want Astarian in my party but I also want to give players options and warnings.

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Originally Posted by Eddiar
Originally Posted by gabbyquail
How is describing my reaction to a scene reaching? It’s my experience. Providing feedback is what playtesters do.


The game allows you to kill him for his transgression.
The game is also rated mature and I don't understand why you want to censor this component of the game.

The game also includes, cannibalism, slavery and child murder...
None of them are very nice things and as the player you could do something about it.

So why are you unsatisfied?


To be fair, I don't think most people (in western countries/ main target group of the game) have a lot of personal experience with cannibalism, slavery, or getting their children killed. Being raped is more common for a female in our society than most people seem to think. If most people were traumatized by war these days, it's likely game developers wouldn't mainly make war ( or other serious fighting) games, because many people wouldn't want to play it. So I don't see the problem in giving feedback to game developers that rape isn't part of an enjoyable game for an audience (that may or may not be larger than you think. After all, if nobody is allowed to complain about it, how are others supposed to express their discomfort?) It's not like OP demanded in a rant they have to change it. I think they were giving pretty neutral feedback, given this is a topic that seems to seriously disturb them.

The point about the maturity rating: This rating merely indicates sex is part of the game. Maturity content is not the same as violent mature content, and therefore the rating isn't exactly telling you if it's content you feel safe with or not.

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