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Originally Posted by dunehunter
I think the dice is just too random, if you ever know a game called Dota2 they have an elegant system to handle randomness called PRD, pseudo-randomness. This makes the change that u miss in a row less frequently while the average miss chance is not affected.


There are ways to ensure that, and as outlined in the video here, many would actually prefer it that way. http://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=698993#Post698993

In doing so, they would move far away from D&D though, which in my opinion they shouldn't given the game's target. Admittedly, I like dice tho.

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i understand rng

however i posted this because--- yes I have notated the results-- and this is why i save the game after everytime i successfully hit. Its become bothersome. The majority of rolls over an hour long fight are too obnoxious to be rng when almost every roll is 1-5.

And the monsters are consistantly hitting my 17-19 defense non stop 17+ rolls.

The reason devs would do it is to create a sense of immense difficulty. If the rolls were truly uninfluenced RNG people would fly through the EA.

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Originally Posted by Oldnight
i understand rng

however i posted this because--- yes I have notated the results-- and this is why i save the game after everytime i successfully hit. Its become bothersome. The majority of rolls over an hour long fight are too obnoxious to be rng when almost every roll is 1-5.

And the monsters are consistantly hitting my 17-19 defense non stop 17+ rolls.

The reason devs would do it is to create a sense of immense difficulty. If the rolls were truly uninfluenced RNG people would fly through the EA.

It sounds to me like there’s an underlying problem here. Are you sure you’re not just... well, playing badly? Sitting in low ground, fighting where your characters can’t see, will grant advantage to get hit and disadvantage to hit.

Seeking advantage and playing well, I’ve had no trouble landing hits and not getting hit, even fighting the entire goblin encampment with little damage taken, twice.

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Originally Posted by Pupito
Originally Posted by clavis
Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by JDCrenton
It's a fake randomizer tweaked in favor of the enemy. That's just how it is. So they want you to abuse all the D:OS stuff and mechanics to overcome it.

Source?

One thing to do is have a conversation that will have rolls, save it, pick it, write down roll. Do it like 10 times (time consuming I know). Last week I got something like 4,1,3,8,5,3,4,4,1,6,15 (the DC). I havent done it on this patch yet, I probably should. It was baaad for a while.


so you were rolling like my DM, which is why he's our DM.


I think I need to be introduced to your DM, I have questions for him xD


I only have heard about one person that rolls worse then him, and he is part of youtube channel Geek and Sundry Will Weaton. Best thing though when playing D&D is when someone has advantage and rolls 2 nat ones. I took a picture not only of their face, but the die, it was epically funny and a total wtf moment.

So random, is just random. I've already posted about my hours of not being able to roll above a 12 with positive modifiers of +3 or higher. In total 4 of my rolls were above 12, the other 30 some odd rolls were all below 12. Then I've seen DM's wife roll back to back nat 20's and not get below 15 through an entire play session. Random at times doesn't seem random, which then leads to superstitions, such as Dice Jails, or curses etc. that some believe in. Long time die rollers such as most any one who's played table top games know that sometimes the dice just seem to hate you.

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Originally Posted by easier2hax
Yeah I miss about 90% of my 80% and up attacks. Combat is mostly just me smacking air. The Ai however is able to hit me through castle walls with 0 vision on me from their position so that's a thing. Though this is EA so I get there are bugs


That’s XCom, baby!

Oh, wait.

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People aren'T flying through the EA because some fight compositions itself can be comparably tough (opposition having height advantage plus outnumbering possible 4 man parties by a ton) -- plus, some monsters are given abilities they don't have in the tabletop necessarily. There is virtually no reason to rig the dice against the player when encounters as well as enemy stats are up to the devs (go ask the Pathfinder guys and their AC 20+ goblins).

But wait, I've seen people clamining the dice were rigged against the player on Pathfinder too.

Originally Posted by fishworshipper

It sounds to me like there’s an underlying problem here. Are you sure you’re not just... well, playing badly? Sitting in low ground, fighting where your characters can’t see, will grant advantage to get hit and disadvantage to hit.


He's claiming he's getting constantly bad rolls on the D20, and the opposition would constantly roll 17+.

Never seen that. Because that's not happning. Just in my last fight I've had them hitting a couple critical misses, even.


Last edited by Sven_; 15/10/20 06:27 PM.
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I love that this is such a well known Will Weaton trait

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I have about 30 hours in this game and one thing I have noticed is not the rolling. Elevation is godly. I'll admit, way to powerful for the enemy and player. With the amount of ranged attacks/archers in the game currently, it feels like they are just too OP. But they are not the issue.



Highground + debuffs Hex + misty step and my warlock just pumps. 98% hit where a natural 1 is the only thing that misses. Same thing goes for any ranged attack. If you don't want to cheese bombs etc. Highground is the next option. If I could have a party of 4 warlocks with misty step and hex.... this game would be a joke.

With it being EA I do think they need to look at bonuses. Every encounter you're always put at a disadvantage via elevation and numbers. If you're not quick on taking the high ground, the battles feel very very difficult. I am going to do a real wright up with my thoughts but this is probably why a lot of you are seeing low numbers. You might roll a 15 but with all the negatives going against you, the rolls seem very very very low.

Last edited by Mezbarrena; 15/10/20 06:30 PM. Reason: mispelling
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One thing with the dice roll UX that I think would add a little context for me would be to see what I rolled and how my modifiers affected the roll. Right now I'm assuming that whatever they show me on the die is the roll and the modifier. That's not exactly specific to this convo but this made me think of how much game design is taking the literal or practical and designing for the best experience.

Anecdotally I have thought that there are experiences I come across where I am meant to succeed on a roll and I almost always do. I've reloaded saves many times to replay through some experiences and 9/10 times I succeed on the dice roll. I think to your point this could be entirely perception, but RNG and PNG algorithms are often in need of tweaking to fit the gameplay and perception of the user.

Originally Posted by Sven_
Originally Posted by fishworshipper

It sounds to me like there’s an underlying problem here. Are you sure you’re not just... well, playing badly? Sitting in low ground, fighting where your characters can’t see, will grant advantage to get hit and disadvantage to hit.


He's claiming he's getting constantly bad rolls on the D20, and the opposition would constantly roll 17+.

Never seen that. Because that's not happning. Just in my last fight I've had them hitting a couple critical misses, even.

People aren'T flying through the EA because some fight compositions itself can be comparably tough (opposition having height advantage plus outnumbering possible 4 man parties by a ton) -- plus, some monsters are given abilities they don't have in the tabletop necessarily. There is virtually no reason to righ the dice against the player when encounters as well as enemy stats are up to the devs (go ask the Pathfinder guys and their AC 20+ goblins).


Last edited by tgerz; 15/10/20 06:31 PM. Reason: Grammar and spelling
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I feel you, in 5e it sometimes the rolls are plain against you.

HOWEVER since BG3 is NOT EXACTLY 5e, there are ways in which you can get around % chance to hit. But don't get me wrong, sometimes you just get screwed by Gil.

1. Use throwables for making puddles. Saving your caustic bulb and lighting it up can easily turn the battle in your favor...or you know, spend it all killing Command Zhalk and the mindflayer, i won't judge. Thanks to DoS2 (divinity original sin 2) I actually carry barrels of liquid with me at all times. Firewine, gunpowder, water.

2. Magic missile at lvl 2 + haste = a non 5e turn allowing 2 casts of mm2 for essentially 8d4+8 so roughly 24dmg avg. Doesn't seem like alot, but that burst helped the wizard who shall not be named and also cannot see in the dark.

3. Use dancing lights for MYSTRA'S SAKE! Your darkvision has its limited range, unless of course you are a drow warlock who likes to see in magical darkness. Lighting up the place increases your chance to hit.

4. Faire fire is really good especially when it procs from a certain mace. Having advantage on all attacks on the target can turn a 70% attack roll to a 100%.

5. ACID! If you can manage to force your enemies to stand in acid while they rip your face off in a fight which is considered a DEADLY encounter by CR standards, damned action economy, you will give them a -2 to AC, which is nothing to scoff at.

6. PRONE! I really hope Larian does not take away cantrips messing with puddles on the ground, because Frost bolt is a fantastic spell. Make the ground frozen and force a dex save on any enemy that walks through it. If they fail, they go prone, and thats good.

7. Let your waterdeep wizard die...alot. Im not kidding, i actually let him die in choke points since AI will not jump out of it.

8. And of course Distance, height, and backstab matter, but you all knew this already.

9. OH and you might have two really REALLY powerful poisons that can do 7d6 dmg 21avg per hit. Try using them.

In DoS2, 5e, BG3, Action economy really controls the battle. Since BG3 player action economy can be stunted...against multi attacking lvl5s, its a good idea to control the battle other ways.

OH and IVE NEVER SUCCEEDED a CONCENTRATION CHECK EVER IN BG3, but if you feel lucky there is also bless and bane.

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Originally Posted by Pupito
Originally Posted by Dulany67
No dev anywhere manipulates rng against the player.

I want you to sit quietly and think about why a dev would ever do that? What benefit do they get from doing so? What are the alternatives to doing this? Then I want you to consider the negatives that might occur from doing so. Now, using logic and keeping in mind the goal is to sell games, come to a conclusion.


Dunno about manipulating RNG against the player, but plenty of devs everywhere do manipulate the gameplay in the AI's favor. Just look at any strategy game in existence where the AI just ignores penalties the players has to put up with lol. In the case of BG3, even if it's not RNG, it is most certainly manipulated in favor of my dreaded arch nemesis: the Gnolls.



That comes under the heading of an alternative to manipulating rng against the player.

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Originally Posted by Oldnight


The reason devs would do it is to create a sense of immense difficulty. If the rolls were truly uninfluenced RNG people would fly through the EA.


Do you understand what a PR nightmare it would be if it were discovered that they were manipulating the rng against players? They have no reason to take that risk, when they are designing the combat encounters.

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Originally Posted by Dulany67
Originally Posted by Oldnight


The reason devs would do it is to create a sense of immense difficulty. If the rolls were truly uninfluenced RNG people would fly through the EA.


Do you understand what a PR nightmare it would be if it were discovered that they were manipulating the rng against players? They have no reason to take that risk, when they are designing the combat encounters.


or they jsut programmed the algorithm incorrectly.

Other players on other sites are also reporting vastly low rolls for players as well.

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Most of the issues come from Larian wanting you to begin on a hill in every single battle because of the advantage/disadvantage system.

Last edited by JDCrenton; 15/10/20 10:24 PM.
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Originally Posted by JDCrenton
Most of the issues come from Larian wanting you to begin on a hill in every single battle because of the advantage/disadvantage system.



Or play ring around the rosey in melee and take turns backstabbing eachother.


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Originally Posted by Tomoya
Originally Posted by JDCrenton
Most of the issues come from Larian wanting you to begin on a hill in every single battle because of the advantage/disadvantage system.



Or play ring around the rosey in melee and take turns backstabbing eachother.


Using jump as a bonus action

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Originally Posted by Oldnight


The reason devs would do it is to create a sense of immense difficulty. If the rolls were truly uninfluenced RNG people would fly through the EA.


Originally Posted by Oldnight


or they jsut programmed the algorithm incorrectly.




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Originally Posted by SacredWitness
They're random. That's the thing about randomness. It's random. 😅

But seriously, I have a stats and maths major friend who has terrible luck with dice. He even went to buy casino dice just to get as much of a fair roll as possible and still rolled like dog shit. I've had hot dice for me consistently that went cold as soon as he touched it. There's something to be said for technique but I've see this dude play hundreds of hours of tabletop, and it's unreal.


If randomness is generated, then it is not truly random wink Deep thoughts. A program is typically deterministic.

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Don't f* me Gil!

Originally Posted by Okidoki
I feel you, in 5e it sometimes the rolls are plain against you.

HOWEVER since BG3 is NOT EXACTLY 5e, there are ways in which you can get around % chance to hit. But don't get me wrong, sometimes you just get screwed by Gil.


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I'm surprised by how many of these are trending right now. The dice really seem like regular dice to me. If anything I think I hit too often and the enemies hit too often. Really.

This is something math nerds have been looking at forever -- you can take a gander at some of the curves:

https://anydice.com/articles/three-basic-distributions/

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